While we're at it, let's also add HS, SE, and SI potions. Or, players could be encouraged to form parties to get HB + these other buffs.
I think I have a compromise. Would it be possible to make HB an exception to boss dispel? Dispel is part of the reason why people don't want to rely on HB. Making HB non-dispellable would increase the value of DrK (or at least the value of HB mules) and make unwashed characters slightly more comfortable when facing bosses that require HB.
Originally ranged classes have high damage but low hp. A nightlord has extremely high damage, but dependent on peel from other jobs (from buffs and multi-target ability, to clear mobs) Their kit shows you they're the classic damage carry dealer. They have flash jump, high avoid, dark sight for a reason. And that reason is -> they need to dodge touch damage from far and keep distance. They are not the best mobbers so relying on a warrior to peel for them should be a must. So if hp washing glitch is allowed, they are letting players surpass and totally erase the disadvantage or downside that ranged classes have for being squishy. This, along with the lack of incentive on party play grind content (melee classes are normally better dealing multi target damage) completely umbalances the game, since it wasn't designed to happen this way. Now imagine getting leeched from level 1 with 250 base int till you are level 135 or whatever. This happening on a nostalgic server, it's bullshit. So I can say I understand your sugestion. I think the only way to solve this is to buff the new daily hp quest enough, so it's worth doing it over hp washing the classic way - which is adding high base int and getting leeched early and mid game. The daily hp quests was a good implement, dont get me wrong! I find it way more fun to grind for my hp hunting mobs and looting etc from around the maple world. But please make it worth doing it over this trash base int mechanic xD This way, people can actually enjoy every phase of the game, and when they reach level 150, they can start focusing on the hp quest. If the classic way to hp wash is easier and cheaper* than doing the daily hp quest, then what's the point? * cheaper on a time/efficiency perspective, because you could just farm and sell leech with your mage, and takes way less time. Ask anyone. Would they be hanging that new daily hp quest or just hp wash the classic way? What do you think it's easier? I do appreciate and empathize with staff efforts but it's still not on point. Should be hard to get hp, not a doubt. But should also be worth doing this quests over having base int lol honestly the way people hp wash it's just not as fun than playing the game from level 1, normally. If you hp wash with high base int you won't be able to do low-mid level pq's or grind at some spots. It's garbage If u havent done hp daily quest enough times -> you would need hb till you do
That's how the game works, and how HB/dispel have functioned since the very beginning. You aren't supposed to be comfortable when facing a boss that you rely on HB for-you should be attentive and prepared just as the DrK in your party should.
But here's the problem: it doesn't matter at all how attentive and prepared you are if your HB provider isn't also paying close attention. This is why many people wash; it's because they don't want to deal with that uncertainty. And also because this uncertainty makes them far less appealing to recruit into boss runs, even if HB is available (which it often isn't).
"you should be attentive and prepared just as the DrK in your party should." This is again, how the game has always been since the very beginning on Royals and gMS. It's the entire purpose of dispel - to create a challenge and keep the players on their toes. Edit nostalgic moment: When HT first came out every party had a DrK and at least one of the ranged per party were reliant on HB to survive. The entire sign up list was maxed out with something like 5 full parties? and we'd all be in Vent (Discord of the olden days) screaming when we'd get dispelled or seduced. People would drop by the masses and runs would even fail because of it - wheels weren't around back then. Those times were 100x more fun than the smooth and easy runs where HB wasn't a concern. If people could make it work back then you sure as hell can make it work now-you just don't want to.
There isn't a reason to have Decent Skills on items. This isn't GMS where we're fighting bosses with billions of HP.
Well, you're right in that assessment: people don't want to. If that's what it takes to get a successful HT tun with unwashed characters, it's no wonder why they don't want to. Nowadays you can't ask every run organizer to put together a discord call; it just isn't practical. It might be nostalgic the first time but it quickly becomes grating when you actually depend on successful runs for your regular income. And it means that unwashed characters are objectively at a large disadvantage... which is why people wash, and why many people who don't wash end up regretting their decision not to. The fact that dispel is part of the original game isn't a good argument, unless you're claiming that Old School MapleStory is a well-designed game. The reality is that Old School MapleStory is one of the most poorly-designed MMO games of all time, at least among the ones that saw popularity. Featuring jump quests that punish you with instant death upon failure, bosses that unavoidably one-shot unwashed characters even with HB, weapon defense being a near-useless dump stat, and a boat ride between two low-level areas that spawns lv100 monsters (granted there's a safe area... but the portal to it is hidden). This game is a circus of bad game design, and there are definitely certain things you can't defend on the basis of nostalgia. I mean, HP washing is technically optional in the sense that no one can force you to do it, but it's disingenuous to say that you won't have an objectively worse endgame experience if you don't wash. All I'm saying is that unwashed characters should be allowed to experience 1/7 of the endgame content they could experience if they had washed, instead of zero. And if this isn't accomplished through an item-based HB buff, we could at least modify HB itself to not be so unreliable when you do have it. Frankly I'm shocked that you guys could even come up with an argument against that (as flimsy as it turned out to be).
That's not at all what I said. I was talking about an old experience on old school gMS back in like 2007 and explaining how they had it much harder, still found success and enjoyment, and that this approach with a DrK needing to rebuff after a dispel has been ingrained into the game since the introduction. I'm arguing that the game we came to play is old school MapleStory and your opinion on the design doesn't mean diddly squat because not one person joined because of some weird undispellable HB change, they joined to play the design that Nexon had in this version of that game. You don't have to like the design, but that's the design we all came here for regardless of your personal feelings about it. Yeah, and you'll also have a worse endgame experience if you can't afford endgame equips, or make mules to buff you, or if you can't do jump quests to participate in certain bosses, but guess what? Our version of the game isn't fair, it isn't class inclusive, and it isn't meant to be some spoon fed soy fest where everybody gets to fight the best bosses in the game with the strongest classes in the game and the least possible inconveniences along the way just months after joining. We invest time and effort and work for long periods to attain the ability to fight things and gradually have a less challenging experience as we better our characters. It's called a challenge and many of us enjoy it.
Funny that you're making an argument based on nostalgia, because MapleRoyals fails to be nostalgic for a large number of people, and the main reason for that is--you guessed it--HP washing. As you know, HP washing encourages archers and thieves to pump base INT and leech to a high level, which is probably not what Nexon envisioned, and it's certainly not how the majority of people played gMS. Now you could say that they have the option to play the game normally without washing, and you'd technically be right. But the fact is that most of those people do it anyways. Why do you suppose that is? It's because HP washing is necessary in order to properly experience Neo Tokyo, Horntail, Toad, Shao, and maybe Pink Bean someday, HB being an unreliable (and often unavailable) solution. If you ask a new player whether they're okay with locking themselves out of that content, of course they're going to say no. Who wouldn't want to be able to experience as much content as the game has to offer? So in the end, you get a large number of people playing archer or thief who feel as if they have no choice but to play with INT and buy leech, hoping that the endgame will make it all worth it in the end. And the fact that bosses can dispel HB and kill them immediately afterwards is probably a large part of that reason. Yes, HB was dispellable in gMS, and making it undispellable would make that part of the game slightly less nostalgic. But if that same change means that archers and sins won't feel as Royally fucked during boss battles if they don't wash, they would be more likely to play the earlier parts of the game without huge amounts of INT. And that will make the server much more nostalgic and authentic in the long run. It's a net gain in nostalgia. If you ask me, the best way to make HP washing truly optional while not completely devaluing the time and mesos spent by those who did wash is to make content accessible to ALL people regardless of whether they washed or not, while also ensuring that washed characters can experience that content on a more regular basis than those who didn't wash.
If you are so worried about not doing end game content, why don’t you make a melee class instead of a range class Also, if you solely wants to do horntail as a casual player, a 8.5k hp range class can survive horntail with proper mechanics and that hp is obtainable with the hp gaining methods implemented in MapleRoyals
You are trying to convince me that HP washing shouldn't be a dominant part of this game's culture, but it clearly is. You are arguing that people can just play ranged characters normally without INT, but the reality is that most of them don't. As convenient as your argument sounds, it has failed to convince most of the playerbase that HP washing is unnecessary. Demonstrably. As a result, most people wash their ranged characters, which detracts from the overall pre-4th-job experience and it is absolutely the #1 reason why Royals doesn't resemble gMS. Try to convince me that most ranged characters don't wash, I dare you. Instead of asking "why do people still wash when HB exists?", maybe we should be asking, "why don't people want to rely on HB for boss runs?" Because the fact is that they don't. We already have plenty of evidence that indicates that our current methods (dispellable HB, spring of life, HP equipment) have not created a server in which HP washing is truly considered optional. The repeatable quest might help eventually, but it's post-lv150 and only grants a tiny trickle of HP so I doubt we'll be seeing results from it soon. I'm trying to solve a problem here so I'd appreciate if you'd stop trying to deny that the problem exists.
Wrong again, this is a very common casual misconception. HP washing isn't nostalgic for those who weren't participating in end game bosses, which were the majority on gMS and the majority of the content was centered around. HP washing is nostalgic for those who were participating in end game bosses, which are the majority on Royals and the majority of the content is centered around. I've made multiple posts on it in the past, here's one in particular that addresses a bunch of misconceptions and helps those like yourself who weren't/aren't in the loop better understand what the game was actually like: https://royals.ms/forum/threads/how-hp-mp-washing-is-ruining-the-game-imo.142679/#post-842630 A direct quote that would benefit you most to understand: "HP washing isn’t nostalgic for casuals who didn’t achieve anything in the real game* is what you really mean. Those who took gMS seriously were washing. They were also leeching (PG leech at places like Anego was most common for us, no idea why it was removed on here). The misconception that HP washing wasn’t a thing only comes from people who simply weren’t doing it and weren’t involved with the crowd who was. Additionally, on gMS the majority of the player base was low leveled and engaging in causal game play. On Royals our entire server is catered toward the late/end game which is the level the majority of our player base is playing at. Royals = primarily high levels and high level content. On gMS being high level and high level content was utilized by a minority of the player base, so of course only a minority of all players were washing—the majority had no reason to be involved with end game mechanics, and no reason to even look into who was. Another common misconception is that this version of the game was or is inclusive to all classes. We must also understand that not all bosses were designed to be able to be killed by all classes. Things like Shao, Bigfoot, Anego and Bodyguards are all great examples. Shao and BF designed for melee, BG/Grandpa and Anego designed for ranged. In order for ranged to participate in a boss designed for melee classses, they must wash to attain melee-like HP (completely reasonable). When it comes to bosses designed for all classes (Zak, Pap, Pianus, HT, CWK, etc.) they can all be survived without HP washing (just HB) at or near the level of the boss itself (so say Zak is a level 140 mob, at 14X all classes can survive Zak without washing and only utilizing HB). Any in between bosses or unoptimized characters (think: warriors who didn’t put points into their HP skill first) require such minimal washing that it isn’t significant enough to warrant any complaints. The extreme washing is needed only for bosses which weren’t designed for the classes that are washing to participate in them, and that is totally reasonable as they wouldn’t be able to participate at all had washing not been a thing." You may feel "royally fucked", and that's totally fine, but the responses to this thread alone should show you that many others haven't adopted this same victimizing woe is me mentality about having to get HB rebuffed once dispelled. They signed up for the game to be like this, it's never been any different and nobody has expected it to be. Ultimately what you *really* want is for "everybody to get access the best end game bosses with less/no time, effort and obstacles outside of their level", and that's just not what this server has ever been about. If you want some spoon fed casual all inclusive experience Royals is clearly not the place for you, and considering the population size is the largest of any server it's evident that this approach garners the greatest amount of interest out of any others. If you want to experience end game content in the least risky and most convenient fashion on this server you are required to spend time and put in effort beyond just leveling up in order to do so. Even if you have enough HP, damage becomes your sole barrier, and should you get your way with *~HP IZ NO OBSTACLE*~ you'll then be whining about how weak/unfunded players aren't being welcomed at end game boss runs because the only thing left for players to filter their party members by will be damage range rather than convenience and capability alongside it. Currently: (Free, no extra time/effort required) No HP wash = reliance on HB, greater risk, less convenient end game experience, incapable of surviving in bosses that weren't designed for your class (Costly, extra time/effort required): HP wash = no reliance on HB, less risk, more convenient end game experience, potentially capable of surviving in bosses that weren't designed for your class aka the nostalgic end game experience on gMS Your proposal "the best way to make HP washing truly optional while not completely devaluing the time and mesos spent by those who did wash is to make content accessible to ALL people regardless of whether they washed or not,": (Free, no extra time/effort required) No HP wash = no reliance on HB, equal risk, equally convenient end game experience, capable of surviving in bosses that weren't designed for your class (Costly, extra time/effort required): HP wash = no reliance on HB, equal risk, equally convenient end game experience, capable of surviving in bosses that weren't designed for your class aka changing the end game entirely from what it had been on gMS and what we signed up for I don't understand how you sincerely believe that changing the entire end game all over an unwillingness to get HB rebuffed is actually a reasonable proposal. Just because they don't want to doesn't mean that they can't. If you want to participate in end game bosses and not rely on HB, you must HP wash even if you don't want to. Often in life you have to do things that you don't want to do in order to achieve an end goal. Think of it like this: You walk onto a basketball court and want to play ball at an elite level What do you do? You practice for a long period of time and build up the ability to play ball at an elite level (IF you were even born with the genetics needed to do so, which you won't know until time and hard work have already been put in, talk about *~*unfair and noninclusive*~*~) What doesn't happen? You walk onto a basketball court and get the ability to play ball at an elite level just for getting yourself there Right now you want people to be able to walk onto the court and get to play ball at an elite level *just* for getting themselves there. Forget the time, effort and hard work to develop that ability. People don't *want* to spend years and years doing mundane workouts and drills, so just *~*~give skills to them, don't make them work for it*~*~*!!! Life doesn't work this way and neither does MapleStory. Work hard, invest time, reap benefits.
MapleRoyals brands itself as "The Nostalgic MapleStory Server" and is the top voted private server on gtop100. Therefore, the majority of people who wish to play Old School MapleStory would probably try Royals first, only to be disappointed when they see the HP washing-centric culture that distorts it into something unrecognizable to all but the rich elite who whaled for NX back in the day. If MapleRoyals isn't nostalgic to the majority of people who miss Old School, it ought to stop calling itself "The Nostalgic MapleStory server", wouldn't you agree? Clearly staff have recognized the problem with lategame HP requirements, otherwise they wouldn't have added the repeatable HP quest last update (a change that you probably disagree with).
Classic unwashed character here. (70 HP from the new repeatable HP quest so far) With Legendary Collector, Mark of Naricain, Blackfist Clock and Black Belt, I can do Horntail comfortably. If I want to participate in Shao, Dunas, or Auf Haven, just make another character and wash it. Currently I don't need them so I don't care.
I guess many of us misunderstand the term "HP washing optional". It is optional because you can still reach LV200, and enjoy all contents - just a little bit difficult since you have to rely on HB. If you want to reach LV200 faster (participate in HT, Shao or Toad at an earlier level), or join end-game bosses with mitigated risks of dying, then HP washing is the way to go - it makes your adventure easier I have to rely on HB (not an active DK, a HB mule) in boss runs like Neo Tokyo bosses and Toad (it does not even dispel lul), and I havent died a single time. So do not worry about the DK not paying attention to buff HB
1. I did not convince you that hp washing shouldn’t be a dominant part of the games culture. What I said was for a casual player and is for your information. 2. I did not deny that the problem exist so please don’t put your words in my mouth.
