A lot is made about dispelling Horntail's weapon defense up buff, but how worth is to actually dispel this buff? From Matt's Horntail guide, we see that the def buff lasts 20 seconds, has a 30 second cooldown, and provides a global +85 def buff. From the mob defense reduction formula from ayumilove we see that monster def linearly reduces your damage as it grows Spoiler: Monster def formulas Weapon Defense - credit to AGF/Stereo MAX damage = (MAX before defense) * (1 - 0.01*D) - WDEF*.5 MIN damage = (MIN before defense) * (1 - 0.01*D) - WDEF*.6 where D is (monster level - player level) if (monster level) > (player level), and 0 otherwise. So the mob def up buff reduces on average 85*.55 damage for an average reduction per line of 47 damage. For a party of 3 NL, 1 BM and 1 DrK, during the 20 seconds of the defense up buff, the party will deal a maximum of: 3*102 lines of normal damage from TT 3*102 lines of 1/2 SP damage 169 lines of hurricane damage 3*66 lines of crusher damage If the ranged members are attacking head C and the DrK is attacking the right side of HT For a total reduction of (306+169+198)*47 + 306*23.5 = 38822 damage lost during the defense up. Spoiler: Attack numbers from TT and hurricane from 20 seconds of attacking and counting star/arrow count. Crusher speed taken from the speed infusion guide without speed infusion. I believe this party comp will have the most lines in a party so any other party composition should have less damage reduced The non-crit brandish damage range for a 10k clean DrK on apple is 39323-54395, so the average damage is 140577k per crushed (before crits). Since using power crash costs you 1 crusher cast, using the DrK to dispel HT's defense up costs you over 100k damage over those 20 seconds. The same principle holds true for heroes armor crashing HT instead of using brandish and a bishop dispelling instead of using genesis. It would only be worth it to dispel the horntail armor buff if you have a dedicated armor dispel mule that can't deal damage in any other way. tl;dr stop telling people to dispel defense up it literally loses dps
Anecdotally, it feels like my nl hits 10k less per line when Def is up. Maybe check if HT def up buff really doesn't affect damage much?
I don't know if it's just me, but I notice a considerable amount of damage reduction when HT uses her def up skill. I've been told by others that the def up results in around -25% damage which is consistent with the numbers I see, but I have no confirmation other than word of mouth. I'll try to take a closer look at the numbers in my next HT and report back.
Make sure to see other players damage, not yours as it might be a visual bug on your side like the 100k stars Spoiler Where even a 10k range NL on demon elixir should only deal a max of 90k on a 0 def target. Coincidentally, two of the 100k stars are on def uped HT heads.
You should do a timing experiment before claiming that dispelling defense buff is useless, because most people's experience points to otherwise. From my personal observations, it reduces the damage lines by a noticeable amount (maybe 15-25% depending on job/range?) I think the +85 defense buff is either inaccurate, or is interacting with some quantity that is not the literal weapon defense of HT.
Same, i notice a considerable dmg reduction when def up....its a visual bug? Also theres sometimes when that little shield shows up that actually BUFF my dmg, ive heard that is a "def down" skill, but inever confirmed it...its just a visual bug?...This is really interesting, i would like some confirmation about it adding on , if this is true then def up skill will ALWAYS cause a visual bug.....bcs is either dmg nerf visual bug, or dmg buff visual bug, in wich case it should be reported isnt it?
As a person who plays Bish and Drk, half the time I know when exactly to dispel the defensive buff. Also, for bishops its not really loss of DPS as a bishops job is be support.
I disagree. From what i've noticed and experienced in my countless runs (which were most by far were done as NL+BS on another client) and with about 10+ solo HT runs, is that you do significantly less damage, i know the damage bug, and i'm not confusing between the two. In my prime, an around 9.5k range NL, i'd hit 75k crit lines sometimes with an apple, when defense buff was up and i didn't dispell it i would never pass the 70k or even the 65k if i remember correctly, been a long time. In addition, dispelling defense buff is quite easy if the person is experienced. For me it was about hitting the HT non-stop with my NL client putting Triple Throw on "Alt" key, and when the time comes and i see head A that i need to dispel going down (which happens often and with time u can almost predict it), I would simply Alt-tab (which triggers triple throw again), right key + teleport and then jump + dispel and the problem is solved. I believe the tricky part is head c, where if u attack from the left side and not crossing u would have to rly almost stand on the half line of the HT's belly and wait for head c to come down and in the same time jump and dispel before getting hit and knocked to the left, that requires timing and patience because it can get tilting if the person is not used to it. TLDR, i believe it's worth it, boost your damage by an amount you shouldn't ignore + it's simple to do.
You lose a lot of damage from it, something like 20-25%. And I don't think it's a visual bug cause the runs where I had just NLs and the BS was a mule and didn't dispel were a lot slower than runs that had 1 warrior who actively crashed def
I did test this when I trio ht Before Nl duo bs , only faster 2-3 minutes if I dispel maybe I too noob to do well party is nl nl nl bs se sed Both run 0 crash Same partner , used same wa potion also
There should be quite a significant ~5min difference with a larger party in horntail tbh. —— When your playing from a POV of a bishop, Watching your entire team hitting additional 5k-8k for BMs to even 10k for NLs. Its definitely not a single player’s damage increasing with the defense buff removed. Not sure if this is relevant, but other test would be Core Blaze, to test how much difference does defense up make? How long does a single/duo DPS requires to take to kill the same boss with or without defense up. Even though without actual tests, 15%-25% does feels about right. Spoiler: Example 10min for main body with bishop actively dispelling 11.5~12.5min for main body w/o bishop dispelling
That's the "armor breaking" moment where HT's att buff makes weird armor sacrifice. I'm not sure exactly what triggers it but there are moments where you deal abnormally high damage after wing buffs, regardless of the def up buff. Based on my experience, the damage reduction during def up buff in HT, Zak or even neo tokyo bosses like Dunas, is pretty significant - at least 10~15k. For example, the cannon damage on my sair goes as high as 50~60k with stopper (50k = KB damage for dunas) but when there's def up buff, my damage goes below 50k and I cannot KB it.
The HT's def up reduces 20~25% DPS of the whole party (4 other attackers are affected against one attacker spending time to dispel), it will drag the time significantly longer. I agree dispel def's up is bishop's job since casting armor crash will make warrior class has less dps. If you have a NL/Warrior/Shad with a bishop mule, its very easy to use the bs mule to dispel def up without losing DPS on the attacker.
I actually remember seeing an update note, from long ago, that said along the line of, "Bishop's dispel will no longer nullify boss buffs". Seeing it's still doable, this must be a glitch and should be avoided?
If this glitch is fixed or there is rule saying this is bannable, then people will avoid "abusing" it. Otherwise I don't see a reason to avoid this 'glitch' since most people are demanding bishop to dispel.
It no longer removes attack buff. That was the change and theres no bugs to it. Edit : Update #50 Priest - Dispel: Removed the ability to nullify mob’s Weapon Attack Up and Magic Attack Up.