Sexism When Enforcing Rules Regarding "Sexist" Comments

I never mention vulgarity or rants containing such terms in my guild kakaotalk (korean chat messenger) server nor discord because I consider it a public space. We have passwords for the room and officially select individuals who may enter the realm but there is no way a human being can accurately predict the heart of a foreign man whom we just met for the first time in a cyber space. As we invite hundreds to our guild, some may be hiding their toxicity or ill-intentions. We had a couple of people who leaked the screenshots of the guild convo and used it against me. Tho, this barely affected me since I expected it to happen one day or another. When I get frustrated and wish to rant with not-so-gentle terms, I call people to a voice chat or create a separate private chat room, with limited individuals, then express my anger. In this thread's context, I don't think one should consider a guild chat, be it discord or other messenger, containing tons of people without real life identifications, a "private" chat. My 2 cents.

 

In my own opinion how I determine if it is a private chatroom really depends on the purpose of the chatroom itself, but it really is up to any individual's interpretation. There are private chatrooms created in guild Discord channels, that aren't even supposed to be open to regular guild members sometimes.

I do agree with you and Aestel where people should exercise precautions at all times, but my point that I wanted to get across is that people should stop saying, "leave the controversial conversations to private chats." Even one-on-ones could get screenshotted. Hands down, it's more accurate to say exercise precautions, or leave it at "don't say anything controversial, anywhere."

 

I feel that implementing and developing a word filter for the sake of people who refuse to mind their language is a waste of resources and there are definitely better places to allocate these resources to. There clearly is an inconsistency in how the staff treats things when it comes to the usage of the "c-word" and "d-word" in the past. What happened in the past can change starting from today. We don't have to trace back every tiny little detail to ban/unban players. To prevent ambiguity, concise rules have to be in place for certain words. But the thing is, there are just too many words. So what happens then when players find loopholes around these certain words? Will players then have CTR-F a word document full of questionable terms to find out whether the words can be used? Or alternatively, we can just trust the staff and let them do their job.

 

My intention was to lay more emphasis on the audience who hears the vulgarity within the rant. I support the "leave the controversial conversations to private chats" stance, especially if that controversy includes insults to a 3rd person with questionable vulgarity. Within your guild discord members, someone could have been friends with the victim, targeted with vulgarity, in the convo. How would they feel as they hear a couple of people shit talk about their friend in what they assume a "private chat"? With such possibilities, how can you call thy space a private chat? A private chat should define a chat space with only those who share the same mindset and understanding around the topic that is to be discussed or with a mutual agreement on the concealment of the discussed content.

Edit: If there are private chat rooms within the discord server that limits the entry of people with questionable identity, what leaves you with the risk of private chat convo exposure?

 

Not trying to be personal, and I sincerely apologise if this does sound like it. This is actually a very negative mindset to view things. Like I mentioned before, eating anything has a chance to cause food poisoning. Do you think it is a good mindset to think "might as well not eat cause there's a chance I might die from food poisoning."?

More examples that are less exaggerated will be things like
There's a chance to fail my exam even if I study. Might as well not study since there's a chance to fail.
There's a chance that I trip when I go out today. Might as well stay home.

I want to reiterate my point, just exercise precaution to reduce the of damage of any given situation.
For e.g, there's a chance to fail my exam even if I study(aka take precaution). However, if I don't study, I have a higher chance of failing(reduce damage).

 

If a bunch of people are shit talking about their friend in a "private chat" is still a private chat albeit, one with really bad intentions. Like I said, we have different interpretations as to what is a private chat. I don't think a private chat needs to be a space where people share the same mindset and understanding around the topic that is to be discussed - you could be debating anything in a private chat and be disagreeing and it'd still be a private chat. I do think they do have to have a mutual agreement on the concealment of the discussed content though.

I hear your concerns for the audience who hears the vulgarity within the rant, and I don't disagree with you at all. Chats shouldn't have bad intentions, but who is to judge what people can or can't say? People are just going to say whatever they want anyway. It doesn't mean we should condone it and that's what I'm sure you and I agree on, but things like that are going to happen all the time whether we like it or not. I'm perfectly fine with people getting punished for saying things they shouldn't be saying. It discourages this sort of behavior.

I'm a little bit confused as to what you are trying to say here... please clarify what you meant if I am misunderstanding here:

I'm not saying that the suggestion is perfect and yes, it does have a bit of negativity in there, but people can choose whether or not they want to take precautions knowing that they could be screenshotted. A lot of people don't care, some people care. I'm not saying it's the perfect suggestion, but if one was to go all the way shaming vulgarities, people might as well say that suggestion I mentioned which would be better than misleading people to say, "keep your controversial conversations in private chats."

It's 4am for me, if you still want to talk about this on this post I'm free to talk about it more once I wake up, I'll gladly address any replies to my posts While I do feel like the topic is straying away from the OP's post

 

I think this was the main point of my post "just exercise precaution to reduce the damage of any given situation.". I agree with you that advocating the idea of private conversation being entirely safe shouldn't occur. However, I don't agree that we should completely avoid taking precautions.

Sure thing! I don't think it is fruitful or ideal to have a debate at this time either. I also agree that we are straying away from OP post. Maybe we should stop here, if it is needed, maybe another feedback thread regarding this if you really want to?

 

It seems that there is a lot of animosity within this thread and it seems that many people are holding onto their own personal ideas and biases rather than looking at a different perspective and engaging in friendly/respectful banter. It seems that almost everyone's post here is trying to indirectly come at someone rather than keeping things respectful. If there is really something that you need to get out, why not post something on: https://royals.ms/forum/threads/get-it-off-your-chest.7415/ or create a feedback suggestion on what it is you're all trying to explain.

 

People are writing long paragraphs lmfao just dont use any insults outside of your bl. people are acting as if theyre forced to say slurs

 

Hi. I consider myself friendly and always trying to respect everyone. I’m not perfect and I use slurs.
If I would’ve said something to someone in a mean, insulting way and he’d be hurt and report me- I’d totally get it, it would’ve been my bad. Only disappointment I have is that people are abusing the TOS. Waiting on people to say a word just to report- that’s just ridiculous.

 

That indeed is a nasty move if proven to be true. Btw seeing that you consistently bring up this issue, how do you know if someone was intentionally camping to grab the evidence for report purpose or happened to catch the scene with a happy coincidence as they went past / came back from afk?

 

I'm not singling anyone out in particular, all I'm saying is that everyone makes mistakes (obviously nobody is perfect). With what you say is totally true but for yourself; that's the thing about opinions and ideas, they're yours but can be shared or viewed differently by others and can have strong ties which are dissolved or kept depending on each individual. Many people will side with you, and there will be many of those who will disagree and share their point of view. Listing off 3 scenarios, the first scenario, if you were to insult someone, and they reported you-you would accept the outcome by said jurisdiction (interchangeable with IRL/In-game) and you would completely understand. But, another scenario in which someone says something "insulting" (quotes added because in this scenario two parties who are interacting don't seem to mind, i.e C-word etc etc being thrown around), and there is someone who is genuinely offended (a third party for example) does send in a report, with your view- you would say that is justifiable, correct? Finally, there is a third scenario in which someone is "preying" on a group of individuals for an immoral intent to weaponize rules in order to get that individual/group of people in trouble (IRL/In-game once again), this is what is many people are talking about.

BUT, in order to prevent any of the scenarios (because I believe that prevention is always better than dealing with consequences) wouldn't it be better if nothing was said at all in a public environment in which all of the above scenarios are applicable? (Yes, you will respond with "they're stalking us in our channels and they shouldn't be sticking their noses where they don't belong") But at an ethical standpoint, don't you agree that those who commit crime or break rules should be reprimanded (Obviously the severity varying on a scale, In-game/IRL)?

From my understanding, it seems that although a group of individuals were reprimanded for breaking set guidelines and rules; there needs to be an explanation for the other party "preying" and "weaponizing" the rules. To me, this would be difficult for Staff to defend against due to the fact that if they do let certain things go and stay strictly tied to the rules for others, wouldn't there be a much greater problem in our midst? The T&C wasn't built overnight, but was created to address and cater to all ages and should be seen as a "work in progress" rather than looking at it as a finished product.

This is a feedback thread after all, and any respectful opinion without indirect animosity, is encouraged and I'm more than willing to hear you out.

 

No one is perfect. Are you claiming staff never slip up, and say anything questionable? What’s the difference between the c-word and dick in this particular situation below? I’ve been witness to explicit sexual terminology referenced by staff members in public spaces, in the past.

 

On the topic of consistency, do only English vulgarities count? From what I've seen in past ban appeals, some got banned for inappropriate IGN due to the inclusion of the "c-word" and "d-word" in their IGN(s). However, those IGNs were not only in English. This includes language like mandarin(pin-yin) and dialect (hokkien). It will be impractical to have a word filter for every language.

 

Personally, I don't find this justifiable. The third party should not be offended if such words were not directed at him/her UNLESS, as per the terms and conditions, hate speech was used. The definition recited in the terms and conditions is as follows, the act of transmitting any sort of content or acting out any scenario which could be perceived as derogatory or otherwise prejudiced towards any group of people based on their race, sex, gender, life choices, or any other division. I don't believe the c-word fits into this box. Obviously the n-word, f-word and other c-word do, but this particular word refers to a woman's genitalia. Again, do not understand why users were given bans based on hate speech. I stand by Angelah.

My feedback would be: 1st strike chat ban, 2nd strike 3 day ban, 3rd strike 7 day ban, 4th strike 14 day ban, and any further bans being 30 days there on after.

 

As Aestal mentioned, this game is an escape. In my opinion, a social escape. I play for the bonds created and the banter exchanged between users. We should not feel the need to censor ourselves for fear that someone else (unrelated to conversation) finds our language offensive when they themselves are not directly involved. Do we need to be constantly looking over our shoulder? For example, if my friends and I are joking around in FM and he/she said something 'questionable' like "never been t-bag'ed b a hog before..." and the third party took a screenshot and reported them for language -> 3 day ban. I would feel violated.

Apologies in advance for the double post, my suggestion would be to either stop perma-banning for language (unless it classifies as severe harassment) or introduce a filter.

 

I did mention that it was a form of escape.

Personally, I feel that you shouldn't think of it this way. You are in a public space and you and your friends should not feel that you own the public space. Please be considerate to those around you when in a public space. You and your friends are not the only ones using video games as a medium for escaping, there are others too. What you and your friends are doing in a public area is inconsiderate to those around, I have no idea why are you feeling violated. Will be nice if you can elaborate more on this part.

Introducing a language filter is too much work for something so unnecessary. You will also have to consider different types of questionable language, not just English. I personally think a 3-strike rule is more than enough to warrant a perma. I'm curious why you would try to stop perma banning for language. I feel that it is a fair and good way to instill fear. If the rules become too lax, people might abuse this system to stir trouble with the intention of "haha, just going to get a temp ban, will get unban soon anyways.".

 

I would feel violated because the conversation has nothing to do with you. No one is harmed, but the person who reports because they happen to find the language 'unsatisfactory'. I am also not up for rules that install "fear". It is obvious that we come from very different walks of life. Your sense of justice and conservatism scares me. Just like Bill Clinton's 3 strike policy (watch the documentary 13th) such a policy has obvious failures and the opportunity to exploit.

 

I did not think anyone would be this petty.
You proved me wrong.

If it was for hacking/botting/RWT I understand and I agree. But language??
YIKES

You are literally spending your free time trying to find dirt on people not related to you...