Let's discuss: do you think this deserves an unban?

No excuse for vile racism. She and her boyfriend disgust me to the core on how racist they are. Both should be banned

 

Let's stop with the BS, he's not a native english speaker yet writes paragraphs perfectly fine in attempts to defend himself, yet apologies are not towards his actions but rather the fact that he "trusted their friendship".

Even more so as a friend if he believed they were friends he should've known when "jokes" need to no longer cross boundaries, he should have listened no=no. "stop raony, wtf". If you can write paragraphs of BS to defend yourself, you definitely know what stop means. Also your analogy forgets the fact that she said no in the screenshot, so let's re-arrange your analogy to the following: if you were to date someone for a year and you guys have sex on a regular basis. One day you both have sex while intoxicated BUT SHE SAYS NO "INSERT NAME", WTF. and a week later, one of them finds out you cheated on them. Please tell me now, what I speculate now is that the cheating induces enough courage to reveal "rape".

 

Then the alleged players can file a report. The issues at hand are the sexual harrassment (where doxing is clearly defined differently for staff) and the fact staff over turned a ban in a coincidental time frame also. No one's condoning racism here, no one's saying what they said was justifiable as a response, my only point with my speculation was that she may have attained the courage from the anger she developed at how he treated her.

 

We are under the royals ToS but only on the mapleroyals server or the ToS of mapleroyals discord or forum. Everything that happens beyond is regulated by laws and restrictions of these areas. I didnt want to reply to "different countries" argument, because i dont rly think its related to getting someone banned on maplestory server.

 

I appreciate your thoughtful assumption on it could be courage on her part. But its not relevant.

I refuse to look at the lens of just sexual harassment when bigger picture is revealed from tim.

Bigger picture shows the couple are vile manipulative bunch. Not innocent, laughing and making fun

 

True and you are right that is misogynistic. My whole thing is this, in all honesty, and I call of ALL of you to REALLY think about this. HOW many of you have had conversations or said things to your friends or associates that may come off as mean or harsh to someone else if you were to say it to them? Exactly my point we all do it. We all do it which is why if a friend or associates says something that REALLY hurts our feelings we say, "Hey man that really hurt, don't say that anymore or say that type of joke". IF they care about you then they will stop, if not then they obv will keep going.

Friends say stuff to each other all the time that you wouldn't say to other random people (obviously). I'm sure she knew what his character was like before he even made that comment, nevertheless, she told him to STOP and he SHOULD have stopped. If he would've kept harassing her then that is a differen't story.
As for the comment with June, that was uncalled for. That displays a misogynistic and chauvinistic view and he should not have called her baby because he does not know her. But I ask you this, if they were friends and he routinely called her baby in the past, and all of a sudden something came up and she ends up reporting him for calling her baby, is that also being mysgonistic? I have called some of my friends that are girls in real life babe in a joking way, so yeah context matters.

 

Don't speak about law if you have not taken law. In this case because they both are in the mapleroyals private server, using discord as a domain of communication and the TOS umbrelling it, no matter where on discord these two users interact on discord, Mapleroyals have the right to take action. Examples being such as Twitch banning users for doing unlawful things outside of their platform. If I admit to hacking in another server, show screenshots of it, its in the interest of the server owner to take those factors into consideration even if theyre outside of the scope of the TOS' direct platforms utilized. Same case for harassment, you don't want pedophiles on mapleroyals, you dont want hackers, and you certainly don't want players like this.

 

I just think it’s nuts how this ban jumped to the top of the priority list. There are people who have been waiting on replies for quite some time.

But this drama is quite real. I wish we could all just get along and play nice. If we could all respect our fellow peers a little more this all could have been avoided.

P.S.
Yo from 2014? Maybe you should change careers and become an archaeologist because thats some real digging.

 

According to TimK, she had the chance twice to make a report on that harassament. I UNDERSTAND people need time and that there is no statue of limitations for such actions; HOWEVER, with all the drama and ToS wars that were going between the two groups, you can easily see that its HIGHLY possible this done as an act of revenge.

At the end of the day, we really don't know if she did do it out of revenge OR if she did it because she was hurt. Either way I'm just saying look at the context in which this stuff is being said because without that then you miss out on details.

 

Yeah, it's important to understand the context and history behind this report. I just thought it was important not to let it all undermine his attitude though. I agree we should pay attention to the entire context and the relationships between people before we judge the conversations. But my intent was to make sure people don't forget the things he has said to June.

I addressed this in a previous post in this thread, I would understand if "baby" is used in an endearing way, but the context it's used in (in the shoutbox screenshot) is obviously toxic. I have no problem if "baby" or "sweety" is used in an endearing way, or if you say it playfully amongst friends, but the way he used it to June, who isn't even his friend, is absolutely unacceptable. It's condescending towards women.

 

Once? Reaffirm boundaries, Twice? Disrespectful, problematic? More than that? Behavioral issue. At this point we can determine it's a behavior issue based on his reactions in this thread. We can also make the assumption that this was not done in vengeance as this was problematic nearly a week before the alleged motive even existed.

My argument to that is that it's not a relevant point. She was offended/hurt by it. That is a fact and within a week mind you she decided to report it. If these were months ago, okay yeah I'd be like horseshit, but we're talking about a week here.

Even then I don't believe Tim actually acknowledged a hard date when the report was made;
@June can you confirm us to the date the report by sharon was made?

 

I'm too lazy to decorate this post and I'm only speaking on the points where I'm the point of focus - apparently it's a lot more about me than it is about Sharon lol

A few days have passed, my conversation with Sharon starts regarding what occured as can be seen on the following pages. She approaches me as Raony’s guild leader, not me as a staff member so I talk with her about the situation as this is my first time learning of whats happening. She wants to file a report but decides against it twice. Later on she asks me about her own (requested) ban and I let her know when that runs out.
-This was when I talked her out of reporting Raony because as you mentioned, I had knowledge that both of us would be banned and I just didn't want to deal with his tantrums at that point. Her not reporting Raony at that point is solely a decision she made FOR ME. Sharon FELT HARASSED and she was so upset about the harrassment AND the doxxing that occurred. She didn't just magically fucking change her mind and say "Yeah that was a joke"

Shin whispers Raony about what happened and they start bickering about how Shin thinks Raony wants to get with sharon while Raony says no why would I, I got my own girlfriend and I’m doing fine in life. Their conversation gets heated and they talk about where they are from, that each of their lives is better than the other and ends with a racial remark towards Raony saying he’s from a third world country (Brazil), the jungle and that he is a baboon and a monkey. Raony says to him that he won in making him feel bad with his xenofobic remarks.
-Incorrect, as mentioned in our chat please check the chat logs again. I approached Raony as calmly and professionally as I was GENUINELY confused why he was going around and talking shit about me behind my back when we had a cordial relationship prior to this. It only gets heated because he begins to mock me for being a simp then he proceeds to flaunt about his life and I was clearly not impressed. I genuinely had no idea the term monkey was racist when I used it. In America you see a dumbass - you call him a monkey. Raony was a big dude so I may have also used baboon. They were not in any way used in racist context. The third world country remark is just a fact. He was flaunting his valuables and I was (again) not impressed because he, by definition lives in a third world country. I have made many many Brazilians friends while playing this game - I don't hate brazil (wtf viva brazil). I hated the guy, and I was dissing the guy's physical and intellectual areas when I chose those words.

Raony shared a picture of Sharon that he got from her public facebook profile in the guild discord to say that she shouldn’t be so full of herself in his defense and that she’s not that attractive to him. He regrets it and deletes the image (or some discord admin removed it) and apologizes to Sharon.
-He was afraid of getting banned for doxxing. After he posted that into Oblivion discord, soooo many people spoke up including ex GMs Johnny and Eli and despite his small brain he knew he fucked up. He was full of rage at one moment then suddenly had a change of heart and literally begged Sharon for forgiveness. Just by knowing his character (from the incident with mags) we knew it was a fucking meme and that he was only out to save his own skin.

Raony tries to distance himself from everything but isn’t able to hold himself strong and he shared what happened with me in a call while he cried about the toxicity that Shin and his friends were subjecting Raony to. This is where I learn that in the context of the whispers that Shin did being called monkey can be really hurtful to people from Brazil, akin to calling people the N-word.
-Cry me a river, there is no such thing as a "M-word". Monkey is not hate speech - and the context in which my friends and I used it was literally to say he's dumb. He instigated the whole mess up to this point I really could not care less how he perceived it, we are able to use the words as freely as we wish. As for him crying, I truly believe it. I have not met a bipolar soul like his and I pray for his wellness for the sake of the people around him...

In the meantime Fendi people from Shin’s friend group are antagonizing anyone related to Rogue and Raony is showing support for Rogue. Shin already dislikes Raony for their previous encounter. He doesn’t have anything else to do so they start getting Raony on the defensive in their discord chats by not dropping the monkey remarks. He is aware this made Raony cry at some point and that it’s racist towards him.
-This really makes you sound biased... You make it seem like we have so much time as to make organized plans to harass the poor guy. No, they were ALL pissed off by what Raony did to both myself and Sharon and while I was gone they wanted to meme Raony. Many people (not just in Fendi) thought he was a joke at that point and they made their own decisions to use the word "monkey" etc.

Shin spend two hours back in the game just to get banned again for his second offensive language offense where he foolishly went to the people that reported him and called them c-words in all chat.
This is also where he decides to ban evade on his bishop who wasn’t banned properly this time around and he made a new character named ‘khunt‘ to play on, poking fun at the word he got banned for.
-I should've been banned for harassment. C-Word is not hate speech. Yeah then as you can see from our convo, I ban evaded while naming myself khunt. I did not care if I got banned at this point because the punishment for ban appeal is the duration in which the previous ban was for which should've been 7 days. I was too edgy yeah but I think once the c-word ban and drama developed I just really didn't give a fuck as much as I should have. I wanted to have fun and named myself khunt (shoutout to kareem hunt for carrying my fantasy league in '17!!)

Sharon buys a pet monkey on her character, names it Raony and messages me out of the blue on Discord trying to provoke me. I ask her to change the pet name and she since deleted the screenshot she sent me of her and the pet. This is where I learn that Sharon is joining in on the toxicity and racism towards Raony and how unlikable of a person she is because of that.
-You make it seem like Raony was completely quiet and innocent during this whole time lmao. This dude is an actual wolf in sheep's clothing. He did not stop talking shit once he knew we were not a threat to create a report on the doxxing or harassment. I do have a few SS's of him talking a hell of a lot of shit for someone who was supposed to be remorseful / hurt. We retaliate, we don't instigate. Is it the right thing to do? no. Does anyone care about his feelings at this point? also no.

Raony still gets harassed about him feeling bad about the racist remarks towards them calling him a monkey and decides to make the report towards Shin while knowing it would also give him a temporary ban for harassment as I explained to both of them before.
- Raony serves his 3 day harassment ban from nov 24th to nov 27th
- Meanwhile Shin has been ban evading ever since, knowingly and gets his chance to appeal his ban revoked for it as you can see by my chat history with him as an addition to the ban appeal he made regarding it.

WOW THIS IS FUCKING NEWS TO ME. Up until this point I had no idea what that third ban was for. I thought it was for the IGN Khunt lul
So you're telling me... Raony created the report from a few weeks prior to get me my third strike WHILE I was already serving my second and there was NO CHANGE IN BAN NOTICE and NO ONE TO TELL ME???
How am I able to know as a player that another ban was issued during my second ban? Are you fucking joking?
This was not a third ban issued on the account that I was ban evading on. I was not once disconnected from the server (on any other accounts mind you except Loopy who had the same ban notice duration the whole fucking time)
Yeah I shouldn't have ban evaded but it was only under the assumption that I was serving a 7 day ban and according to T&C the punishment would apply another 7 days.
So because I got chain-banned from a report from 2 weeks prior it became a "ban-evasion of a permanent ban" you're joking

As I mentioned in my convo with you, the only reason that I tried to get through to you was for my friends and my guild. Take the items, take my accounts I literally don't give a fuck. The way in which I got chain banned (2nd to 3rd) is just so dirty and it's disgusting how you suddenly apply this 48 hour ruling to save Raony's ass while you just dismissed my case because of ban evading.

I was wondering how you would justify your actions and to be honest for the amount of respect I had for you, I expected something else.
The people have the full picture now and you said exactly everything that somehow makes you, the Staff and Raony look worse.
And to my sensitive buddy Raony - this "no-ban" hurts him more than any other ban will and I am content with that.

TLDR; I got cucked by a chain ban and daddy Tim didn't "force the 48 hour rule" onto his staff like he did for Raony.
Raony lives to become the creep of the server
Loopy dies as a semi-racist. The end.

My last words I swear
I have the hottest girlfriend
I drive a BMW
and I love big tits.

Goodbye Royals

 

Dude, you do not know what type of dialogue they have with each other so you don't know what's crossing the line until the other person TELLS you you are crossing the line. Like you're acting like he kept saying a bunch of stuff after she said stop. He stopped after that, now like I said if he continued that's a different story.
With my analogy I was using it in reference of using things as a revenge. Bro, many women (some men but rarely) have said no after the fact the next day after already having sex, in order get back at that person. I know I am treading a thin line talking about this because many women are victim blamed in this situation, so I want it to be known that I am by no means advocating that women shouldn't come forth in these situations. I AM just saying revenge stuff like that happens and it could easily happen here.

 

just wanted to say it doesnt matter if she did this out of revenge. if you think sexual harassment and misogyny are fine no matter the intentions then you are a garbage person and you shouldnt play this server.
racism is also wrong as well. does it take more than 20 pages for it to even be said? this is a joke

 

I agree with you. The change in ToS to a statue of limitation of 48 hours for harassment seems far too short, especially for more serious cases. Also, the context does matter and this is a super messy situation so it's ultimately up the admins and GMs to try to make fair judgements in cases like this. According to TimK, Raony already served a ban for harassment for this, but perhaps another one for doxxing should be issued. The circumstances here are somewhat open to interpretation whether that was doxxing, but I think it probably was. If anything else should be done, please comment.

I also agree with TimK that there has been a trend of people weaponizing the T&C to get people banned, and a lot of toxicity lately. So, I'm happy something is being done to try to change that for the better, albeit, the implementation and judgements could be improved.

It's much better to avoid situations like this altogether if possible.

Edit: TLDR: I think the T&C needs further revision because 48 hours for harassment is far too short and not appropriate for serious cases. Also, it's debatable whether Raony should be banned further for doxxing and/or harassment, although, he already served one ban for the in game screenshot in question.

 

"Bro, many women (some men but rarely) have said no after the fact the next day after already having sex, in order get back at that person"
source? and how is this relevant? and how do you know men only rarely do this? where are your sources? do you not know men seek revenge as well and end up killing women..?
but how does any of this have anything to do with this?
just dont sexually harass women. how is that hard to get

 

Just saying, @Tim , if you can unban Raony, you can just as easily, and for the same reason, unban Don.

#FreeOniSan

 

Dude... Idk maybe I just can't explain what I am trying to say. Sexual harassament is sexual harassament, you are CORRECT; however, I am just saying look at the context. Example: Let's say my friends and I love to joke around. We literally talk about all cultures, races, genders, etc. We even joke at each other sometimes. Now one day, lets say this friend gets offended when I call him the n word. He tells me to STOP, so I stop. Something serious happens that doesn't have anything to do with me and he decies to want to get me banned, so he calls me a racist and reports me for calling him the n word. NOW, what I said was a racist term; however, would it make me a racist? Would it have been the same if I would have called some stranger the n word for asking me for mesos or something? That's all I'm saying.

 

At 4 occasions, you have stated that Fentyy (why post her real name on forums without her consent by the way) did not report in time (how can you tell when it is too late to report any misbehaving, especially over something as sensitive as harassing) because she did not feel harassed the moment of the incident, and even said at one occasion that she only reported because she is part of the Fendi "crew", apparently only seeking revenge for what had happened to Fendi's leader. I am wondering how can you even make such a claim. You are not a woman who has been called names by random persons before (especially in online video games) that you practically have to forget about it and pretend nothing has happened, as it unfortunately happens way too many times to our women in society. So how could you specifically know how she felt during the incident as I know you have never had a word with her during the whole reporting process. Fentyy and I talk together all the time, and since the day the incident occurred (Stuffworks calling her bitch over and over again after she jokingly called him a loser), we have had talks about it, and it took her some time to finally want to report the situation as she was not comfortable to do so the moment it happened, and that is totally understandable.

Have you thought of the possibility that she may not have been aware of how this reporting policy/procedure works on Royals, and that she did not even know how to screenshot in-game at the time? In her report, she asked if an admin could have a closer look on the case, and could only provide the exchanged words since she was lacking proper evidence. From what I can say after reading your post, you only know about Stuffworks' side of the story (he was not even the one filing the report), and have your own opinion as to the real reasons why Fentyy did go ahead with the report.

 

I have no idea why do you think admins should give a damn about things said in PRIVATE discord channel, all they have is the nickname that u can change anytime. When it comes to your example of banned twitch users, i've never heard of streamers getting banned for unlawful things they did off stream unless they were actually sentenced (or prosecuted). If you have such examples you can pm me, maybe i was watching some bad guys. Also on twitch, if u wanna watch someone and their behaviour that can be negative, u just click. On royals you dont have to talk with toxic people, you just avoid them or report them if they said something against ToS.