Just as there are risks that Archers\Buccaneers\Pallys\Drks\Bishops would turn to be mules in boss runs because of SE\SI,TL\Crash\HB\HS,Ress respectively.
It is unfortunate that they ended up becoming buff mules but I think we should look for ways to enhance the QOL of an underrated class without adding more to that list.
I don't think Heroes need to have Rage/Enrage be party buffs that it forces them to be mules (or essential) for runs. The only thing you could really look at for the betterment of the class is just improving Panic/Coma and maybe making Adv Combo/Rage un-dispelleable.
The same argument could have been said about giving Pallys Crash but at the end of the day this addition had a huge positive impact on the overall gameplay in general and of pallys in particular. Thus I don't see a reason why Heroes should not get the same treatment as Pallys did. Moreover, this could improve the variety of classes that are picked for boss runs for additional party buffs, giving an oportunity for new and creative boss strategies. And if you ask me, in my opinion every class should have a unique and helpful party buff for the same reasons. In my opinion the mule argument is invalid since it can be applied to every single meta class that has a party buff. I kinda don't see how Panic and Coma could be buffed to the point that Heroes would actually use them instead of using Brandish constantly because of their really awful range and delay (even if the % would increase). Maybe Panic can be buffed so that with 10 orbs it can penetrate Weapon Cancel just like Marksmen's Snipe but other than that I'd say Brandish would still be better. Un-dispellable adv. Combo would be my second choice after stackable party enrage since dispelling Combo is the biggest and most painful Achilles heel of Heroes (Dunas v2 flashbacks).
Enrage as a party skill that stacks with weapon attack doesn't seem like a terrible idea. Heros can surely be used as enrage mules, but there's plenty of hurdles to get to that point. Additionally, enrage has a cool down so its not as powerful as other buffs and would require multiple enragers to sustain it. The real issue with this is that drks are still technically behind heros so why even buff heros? Most bosses are 1v1 and the multi-target bosses (zakum, ht, shaolin) still have much more 1v1 in them and that's where these two classes suffer the most.
we cant underestimate the power of being actually able to imporve the dmg of a pt, thats the most OP thing in this game echo and SE do that, we cant take SI in the same group since its not near as effective as those 2, so believe me it is OP, again the real issue is the relation drk/hero where after almost a decade its finally fair, the next move should be improve the spots where multitarhget role shine, sadly theres no real end game player rn in staff, so we should hold this suggestions till the situation changes..
The Enrage Buff is indeed a bit overpowered, an average NL with stopper will have something like 200 atk (lets say they have 80 atk claw, around 30 atk gear, 30 atk from the star and 60 from stopper). Enrage will you give you a 13% buff then, and even for a more powerful with perfect gear it will still be like 10% more damage. This is 10% damage buff for every class except mage, unlike SI that only works for certain classes and SE that isn't that powerful for some classes (and also BMs don't really have much going for them aside from SE). The Hero DPS will also be high and it will be able to compete with Paladins in 1vs1 while easily beating them in multi target.
ermm, i think were agreeing here..right? i said OP, and you just explained how with details,(thanks btw, i always love to have the exact calculations)
To be honest, there were some decent buffs to heroes, though in relative terms, it felt like heroes were left behind. There is utility in using axes now and that increases the pool of cheap weapons early heroes have access to. I even showed that a perfect 1h axe + perfect shield is comparable or even better than perfect claymores. Heroes can dispel def up (though a buff to its cast range feels necessary imo) I think what really hurt heroes would be the recent elixir price increases. I think only mp potions prices should have increased. Enrage party buff would be very bad and make them enrage mules lul. I think allowing enrage to stack over normal attack potions/rage is a great way to buff heroes. I'm always in favour of buffing hardly used skills. The amount of weapon attack to add should probably be reduced from 26 to 14 (rage + enrage gives +26 again). Enrage at max level has an uptime of 6mins and a cooldown of 10mins. So it can be active ~60% of the time. A buff of 14 attack will be like ~6% on gizer and ~5% on apple. And it only has an uptime of 60% so 3~3.6% net dps improvement. Well, I have permanently relegated my hero to a utility role and only use it at cwk/nibergen/def cancelling mule at auf/echo mule and I'm pretty happy with it given the lack of investment I put into it and that it was my very first character too. I still think it is a pretty good option for beginners to start with.
Yeah a buff would be good. The stacking enrage idea is interesting, but maybe only doable after a nerf on its ATT? Also making Shout, Panic and Coma not completely useless skills would also be cool. Also, i don't use shields so i don't know, but is shield mastery useful for anything? also make stance work 100% of the time for hero
I think heroes as an overall class stand at an "okay" spot. If I were to recommend anything - Increase the range of Shout skill, and also an increased stun rate of 100% instead of 95% - Making Panic hit through Weapon Cancel. It would be very useful for the class but I'd also propose a cooldown (maybe 20 seconds) since Paladins can also do this with Heavens Hammer Other than that, Heroes are a very good beginner friendly class that offer cheap washing and great multitarget DPS
can you be more specific about the statement of the 1hand axe+shield equals or better than claymore? thx
Combo build up is always very debilitating to the heroes, and Shout range is very short with 6 targets being too limiting. One thing to remember in MS is that Hero was built to be the bosser of the three warriors that mainly prioritizes on that. If we're giving the other warriors part of what Hero is- then it's only fair for Hero to take a bit from the other warriors too and that could be done a bit with Shout handling some trash-control duty with longer range and more targets, making it excellent with its stun and fun for Heroes to play around with, but damage staying the same for it.
Shout is not a very good skill and requires a lot of tweaks to even put it above a skill like Monster Magnet. - hits 6 monsters -does less damage than basic attack -barely tops Brandish in range. -attack animation is very long. If the idea is to just make it a stunner with the range of an ultimate, then I'm not sure how much use that would have since Hero's are already very good at Brandishing large amounts of mobs.
I think the original KMS/GMS Maplestory is this version is not meant to be balanced in 4th job. There is much more emphasis on the lvl 1-70 experience because the original experience rates, drop rates, and inavailability of NX cash makes the original game much harder. Instead of balancing the end game further, the game developers eventually scrapped everything and made Big Bang around v95 or so. So, I think Hero, Palladin, and Dark Knight are literally designed just to give players an illusion of choice and fun variety of skills in the lvl 1-70 or lvl 1-120 experience in original MS. They are not supposed to be balanced in lvl 120+, because in GMS/KMS only crazy dedicated players could ever make it that far which was an insignificant portion of the playerbase, and things were likely to get updated/revamped anyway so the lvl 120+ experience didn't matter. Edit: That's relevant here because in terms of end game balancing, the Royals team can literally make up almost anything they want in terms of what each class's role is supposed to be. In the Royals meta, Pallys are crash mules due to the fabricated skill "total crash". All three warriors (DRK, Hero, and Pally) are almost the same class in that they are melee, high HP, multitarget classes with some utility. Hero has the least utility so it'd be fair for them to have the highest damage, but aren't exactly (although the utility from DRK and Pally aren't that strong either due to muling and HP washing).
Also something else to add, for Heroes armor crash, it can be useful if changed in one of two ways: It can be a group dispel, one that can get rid of Zombify with a cooldown similar to total crash (Sed removal for group optional if not too broken) Another would be Reflect Crash, nullifying the damage reflect of certain bosses, which could also open up more bosses for royals in the future.
ohhhh, honestly i woudlnt like any kind of buff to heros bcs it would be start the drks argue again(beside some qol changes ofc, mentioned above) but beside sed removal...actually this ideas seem quite a delight tbh...
Double attack & Enrage Buff + Def Buff removal + Spawn clear mule! Oh boy i don't even need to wash, Buff ples Bishop mule is the past +STR and level it up to lvl155 w/o washing, HT leech daily to lvl200 \o/
I don't have much to contribute but I do want to just throw in my experience real quick, I used to main a hero and I've since decided to switch over to bowmaster for various reasons. The main and most important reason is because I found it very difficult to join a party while being a hero because of the lack of incentive for parties to bring me. Hero is far from the strongest class and offers nothing besides their damage. This needs to change obviously but as to what specifically needs to be changed I'll leave that up to you fine folks to figure out. Just wanted to throw my +1 into the hat and echo the sentiments of the original post.
