Let's discuss: do you think this deserves an unban?

Refer to this https://www.norvillerogers.com/why-its-racist-calling-black-people-monkeys/ and https://www.slj.com/?detailStory=The-problem-with-picture-book-monkeys-racist-imagery-libraries
There are few materials available on the internet and they're not that hard to find.

I didn't make any report yet because I assume this thread won't provide enough material to justify it.

 

You are correct.

One indecent managed bad versus many good work on server health.

Server up since long ago almost 10 yrs of hard work. Till this day, server survive

Not possible without tim.

Make him quit server will 100% hacker

 

It makes you look petulant and disrespectful in general. There are better ways to deliver your opinion on the matter. Although this is a public forum thread with freedom of speech, your action derails the discussion to a pointless war of emotional remarks. Shouldn't you show some respect to fellow participants if you are actually interested in a fruitful discussion?

 

Who are you to teach me what to do? As long as i dont break any forum rules and i have the rights to give my own opinion.
I dont want to talk to a person like you, if you don't want to see my post, act like a polite person, ignore me, rather than try to educate me as you are the boss lol

Edit: also from the "damage thread", i already know who you are (also lots of people in this community know who you are), please dont react to me, i feel ew, just ignore me if you can, thanks, after this if you still try to reach me i will take it as harassment.

 

I did actually try to search around for some documentations, but now I see where you've found them and why I haven't been able to find them. They labeled it as black people but it's still correct to apply to Brazilians since there are some who are Afro-Brazilians. I see that it carries some significance similar to "blackface" in the way that black people were depicted as monkeys in literature. Really appreciate it, it's good to be more culturally aware of things. Not that I would ever use the term, "monkey" to describe someone in a racist way but it's good to know.

 

So you ok with he abusing power, if so i have nothing to talk with you anymore.

 

Great read btw. Can't believe I missed out on all this.

For the record, not just in Brazil, even in the United States, everyone with half a brain knows that the term "monkey" has racial undertones against blacks. In and around the community where I grew up, which is not even a very liberal area, and everywhere else I've lived in the states, that term is completely off limits for the black community; everyone knows it's a racially motivated insult. This Loopy dude is full of shit. I GUARANTEE you he's not black and wouldn't dare use the insult in front of a black person. Just like he would never use the n word irl in the same way he tosses it around online. "we are able to use the words as freely as we wish" lmao. Fucking weasel.

Loopy = garbage human being
Raony = garbage human being

As for Tim, which is the obviously the most important issue, he clearly screwed up on this one, but also has dedicated more to the server than most of us ever could. I would not support his leaving, but he really needs to change his perspective on this situation and I'm hoping that the other staff make an effort to get him to come to his senses.

 

The question was regarding Sharon having a monkey pet named after him. Here's the issue, demographically a BR is not considered "*African", which yes, has serious racial undertones, against blacks. So for this comparison to be made (regarding Sharon) the consideration is that Raony identifies as black. Even in the Racial database BR doesn't have a list for except for one word; http://www.rsdb.org/search?q=brazil

Loopy shouldn't have used a racial term at all, no one is questioning that. Feel free to find me any post in this thread that suggests Loopy should be unbanned, you won't find it, but you're welcome to waste your time. The question is if Sharon is racist for having a pet, which I have not seen any evidence of besides people trying to protect a pervert.

EDIT: This is an argument against semantics but the real meat in this discussion is that Sharon used a perfectly reasonable joke against someone clearly not black, per his selfies with his budget BMW, but still corrected herself when she saw what it meant to him.

ON the other hand you have him treating Sharon just like he treated another woman in terms of misogynistic behavior, which is not culturally seen differently.

 

Do you feel ok to have your name labeled on a monkey? I wouldn't. It's aggressive and no apology can resolve that.
Everybody can have any pet, but nobody has liberty to put people's name on it with offensive intentions.

 

I know this is your only talking point and you have the intelligence of an elephant who never forgets, but it's kind of a red herring. She acknowledged it hurt him and changed the name, she didn't get reported for it, she didn't get threatened for it, she did it with her own motivation that she didn't want to hurt him. While the person you are suggesting was so hurt, has demonstrated in this thread of two instances of insulting people, using their image against them and trying to defend himself with bad faith arguments.

Really bored of this conversation tbh.

 

Me too tbh.
I don't wanna continue this. It's pointless imo.
I just hope I don't find people in game that thinks calling other as monkey is ok...

 

Hey everyone. Thanks for contributing this feedback thread. At this point of time, I think enough time has passed and I’m asking @Tim to answer the questions as he said he would:

I think this post I’m quoting is very important and contains most of our points. Thanks for your time.

 

So.. here's the thing:

Spoiler: TLDR

Report was flaky, he should've appealed, and look back on Tim's history before spewing random comments.

Your Report

In a normal sexual harassment report, you'll usually find someone making unwanted offensive comments [1] to another player. The person reporting would then tell the offender to stop. They can block the other player, leave the map, or just ignore the comments at that moment. If the offender continues the same offense then the reporter screenshots the entire conversation and puts in the report on the forums. Open and shut cases will generally show the offender in the same map, using all chat (though whispers may also happen), following the person around constantly.

However, in your report, you have one screenshot in-game, through whispers of part of a conversation with a friend who isn't even following you around. This alone (in my opinion) does not warrant a ban. Yes, the comments were offensive and you did tell him to stop and you were in a HT map so obviously he couldn't have been there unless also bossing w/ you, but the remaining dialogue doesn't seem like concrete evidence considering it ends after those three lines and doesn't include vulgar, obscene, hateful, threatening or abusive comments. However, rude/harassing commentary do fall within the rules so that'll be up to the decision of whomever follows up with the report.

Your report includes screenshots of conversations made in discord and while it does give insight on why you made the report in the first place, it should not be considered proof of harassment. The GMs in MapleRoyals have the obligation to protect you in-game and on the forums by banning another player, but they don't police Discord, Facebook, or other media. If the offender posts personal information/pictures on the forums, smega, in-game chat, MapleRoyals official discord, or any public space that the staff hold jurisdiction, then sure. However, they don't hold power over your guild's discord server or DMs. Discord and Facebook provide you with the tools to protect yourself in those platforms. Also, even though reports in the past for other rules broken allowed discord screenshots to be included into evidence, those cases still required additional investigations. It's not like you could confidently say, "Yes this guy definitely made money through RWT" just by looking at the database or read some conversation on Discord. A good example of this mentioned a while back is the Don scenario. Although he broke the same harassment rule numerous times, the staff found it very difficult to secure a ban onto him because they couldn’t use Discord screenshots as evidence.

The Nonexistent Ban Appeal

We all have seen the behavior of all parties involved in the situation. It's clear that no one is completely innocent, but one thing is for certain: There was no ban appeal. June was the one who handled the case and therefore her decision is final unless disputed by the alleged offender on the forums. No one should be able to just press CTRL+Z on it. The formal process should apply to everyone regardless of if you're a player, GM, or Admin.

Additional Offense

The only clear cut case that I've seen is Raony's remarks to former GM June. Even if he does not serve additional time for the sexual harassment case against Sharu, he should be punished for the disrespectful, sexist remarks made towards a staff member. I hope he sees what he did wrong there and formally apologizes for it. (If it happens, I'd advise locking the thread immediately to avoid unnecessary comments)

The Claim of Abuse of Power

Time and time again players have claimed that the administration on MapleRoyals abuses their power. We all know that all decisions made by the admins are final and we *knowingly* signed up for that. We're held liable for reading the rules and if we don't it isn't their problem. The longer you've been here, the more apparent it is. However, with the screenshots made public, we can see that both parties attempted to manipulate the Admin in question for their own gain. How can we as the community really trust that the motive is equality and not for petty claims? Additionally, while we're on this topic, we recognize that both June and Tim share a conflict of interest and although we cannot question their credibility when dealing with friends without knowing them personally, this thread makes it clear that neither should have been involved in the first place. [4]

Sexism, Racism, Sexual Harassment

MapleRoyals caters to a broad range of cultures. The rules are set in place to maintain a good community regardless of your origin. When they are broken, staff take it upon themselves to resolve these issues. So, let’s take a look at some numbers. In the past 6 [2] years, Tim has posted in the ban appeal and report abuse sections 8,164 and 1,454 times. In the time that he's been a staff member, why hasn't anyone called him out on being sexist or racist up until now? Does this thread suddenly make him a supporter of these things? On top of that, during any of these reports, has anyone called him out on being biased with real proof? If you have nothing better to do than to complain on the forums, maybe spend some time looking through some of his replies and decide that on your own. (This comment is not directed towards anyone in particular, it's just a suggestion for the people ready with pitchforks to understand where he may be coming from.)

Sexual harassment is an incredibly sensitive topic. I agree with others when they say you really don't know how it feels or what you'd do if someone had ever done it to you. You can't just impose a 48hr rule made black and white [3]. If you have any experience dealing with this sort of thing, you'll know that it's not easy to just return to normal within 2 days of experiencing that level of trauma. However, when it comes to MapleRoyals, players can't physically harass you because it literally is just a mushroom game with typing as the only means for communication. With that said, I do feel that staff needs to put a considerable amount of time before making a decision on these types of reports. One staff member should not hold power over a player for something as serious as this.

My only gripe with the finger pointing towards staff members using the contemplated 48 hours rule is that it hasn’t been formally announced. While yes Tim did threaten to leave staff if his rule wasn’t passed word for word, the staff as a whole did NOT finalize their decision nor did they publicly announce the changes. Minor note: Rising tension between the two guilds does put pressure on staff to evaluate the situation before it escalates even more. It is clear that something needs to be changed to prevent weaponizing the report system, but before we call anyone out at least let them figure things out as a team first.

Past, Present, and Future Staff

After having been here for 5+ years, I've seen staff come and go. I've seen multiple threads claiming abuse of power and honestly, it's no wonder everyone's so upset. A lot of the people who become GMs are the same people who claim that they'll do a good job by committing to their role as a servant to the community and voice of the people. The staff members eventually find themselves with much less time to enjoy the game and lose touch with the community. Either that or..

1. They become burnt out from doing staff work
2. Having to resolve repetitive issues without the proper tools
3. Feel unappreciated and quit
4. Are frustrated with the senior staff members not agreeing with prospective changes.

What happens next is they're tired of being harassed by the same community that suggested they apply and then go off to break the rules and it explodes into threads such as these. On the off chance that they abuse their power for personal gain, as soon as it is discovered, they get the boot.

If you're relatively new or don't know how the admins became admins:

Prior to Tim, the Admins had originally been forum moderators, excluding Matt because he is the owner. I believe Tim, Mike, Dimitri were the GMs that turned Admins during my time on this server. They all had served for quite a while before being promoted. There needs to be an incredible amount of trust in these people for the server to operate and although I have never been on the team, I can understand the hesitation of adding more as an owner. You're putting your server on the line for people you don't really know. Anyone at any time can stab you in the back and tear it all down. Qualifications don't matter if the next day they decide to do whatever they feel like.

As it seems, the forum mods are constantly watching for any problems that arise and are doing a great job at it considering we haven't poked them with our sticks much yet. Other staff members are resuming the GM work and the remaining stay quiet (which I feel is for the best because something this big is stressful for everyone involved). I'd wait for a final post made by official staff with regards to the questions in the previous linked post, but urge people to really just be nicer to each other. This wouldn't have been a problem if people could stop being such jerks to each other. Don't claim to be the better person if all you did was pick a side and talk shit about the other. The server doesn't need further division between staff and players.

For the future, I just want to see more transparency. Someone had suggested allowing veteran players to obtain a role in which they voted on changes to the server. I like this and even if the staff overrides the vote, at least it would give players the satisfaction of contributing to the community in a more explicit way. Forum Moderators should be able to pick and choose specific players for this because they are the most involved with the players and (have also said they don't really feel their role is as beneficial with downgraded GM access). I'd like to see newer GMs be placed into teams so their that they can better manage their workflow. It makes no sense for an admin to review the database, deal with reports, and micromanage lower level staff.

---

Reference Material:

[1] Objectionable Behavior (Harassment) - The act of engaging in any sort of rude, harassing, vulgar, obscene, hateful, threatening or abusive discourse with another player, or alternatively in a setting in which unintended audiences may be present such as all publically transmitted chat or serverwide messages. This includes persistent badgering, flaming, mass defamation or disruption of another player.
There is an objectionable behavior (disruption) category, however, that is also not what happened.

[2] Tim states that he's been a member of staff for 6 years.

[3] It seems the rule was enacted on Thursday, but it isn't on the actual Terms and Conditions page.

[4] I have been informed that ex-GM June had no prior relationship with any of the parties outside of doing dojo with one Shin once. However, bringing in a third party would still be beneficial.

Disclaimer: I have never spoken to Raony in my life, I did say hi to Sharon once, Tim has banned me in the past, and I am not affiliated with either guild.
* Also, and I quote: " I'm glad I have never met or trusted you before. " Raony 11-5-2015. 5 years ago..
** I won't be replying to this, but I kindly ask that those who read this don't quote me because this is meant to be an informative reply.
*** If you notice any mistakes in my post, please DM me so that I may fix it.

 

I know you said you're not responding to replies (so I'm not expecting a response) but I wanted to add my thoughts.

I would argue that "you have big tits" is both vulgar and obscene. How you fail to see that is worrying.

I am new to the server, but I can undoubtedly see the work Tim has put in over the years. HOWEVER, your argument that because Tim has never had a history of sexism/racism until now is irrelevant and misguided. What matters is that Tim endorsed sexual harassment and tried to victim-blame. There is literally screenshot evidence of him blaming Sharu for having her pictures public and claims the fault lies with her, not Raony, for getting doxxed.

Your argument is dangerously close to "well, this person has never had a history of sexual harassment/assault/rape before, so the victim must clearly be lying!!!" That's messed up. Tim is defending misogynistic actions. Who cares that there hasn't been evidence of him doing it before? It just means he finally got caught. Tim has announced to this entire server that all his friends are free to doxx, harass, and stalk (both in-game and out-of-game) because he will protect them. Great. Lovely server you all have here.

 

?

 

Well said Tim, have a good rest.

Thank you for keeping this server health and for your moderation.

 

You actually do whatever you want for your friends at first, but with the heat of this thread, need to do something to cool it down.
But at least you accept the over abusing of admin power.
The words were said here from the beginning will still be keeped in mind after read through this issue.

Also is this just from this incident, the 48hours report time for harrassment rules is really active? (Or does any know it will be discuss somewhere can link me? Or it will just be active?)

That new change in harrassment rules still a question to me .

 

Ok thanks for your answer