Yes I understand where u coming from, and I do know this tricks too. Now I just focus on gaviota + octo combo. You're going to use ship+cannon on right side, and not using that combo throughout the whole time, which is not a concern here at all. As if your ship is down and using rapid fire, i suppose you're not going to continue rapid fire on right side? Theres where you will continuously using gaviota + ocoto combo, which definitely bringing the mob towards others too.
Besides gaviota+octo+ship combo, i prefer octo+ship+recoil shot, when you hit near the frame of the platform or bosses, you can ues this to summon octo, dismount and move to a safer place in a short time, really useful when hitting zak top right hand or HT head C. When you want to mount the ship, this combo can summon otcto, mount ship and not triggering the recoil shot. For the improvements, i really like the suggestion that the ship can heal its hp when not using it, its really annoying when you need to choose echo/pot buff or relog to get a new ship.
Just like what I did here. I told my zhelm looter (the guy who came for free helms) to literally hold down his left arrow key the whole run .
By your logic, no need for buffs because Corsair needs skill to deal high dps. You claim I need to know patterns, sweet spots, positioning, and boat mechanics but what about NLs? You just need to press 1 key. Why would I even consider playing Corsair when NLs just dish out high dmg without the need of skill? Lol. So you tell me I need to get good in order to be able to deal high dps as a Corsair, and that's just the class design. I'm not saying that's wrong I actually agree. Let's be real here: as long as you have a class that literally does everything and I mean everything better than Corsair with way less effort I see no reason to play it other than just for fun. Corsair boat needs some kind of buff because NL exists and even with this buff NL will still be better lol. 'NL needs SE' sure let me just log my SE mule Please fix this mule story and Nl story once and for all Edit: forgot to mention since hp wash is allowed on this server, keep in mind how easier it is to wash NL over a gunslinger.
Corsairs do a lot more damage than NLs under the right scenarios. I dare say we can white any NLs so long as the boss isn't toad or HT. What more do you want from corsairs? I consider myself a lazy corsair, I'll typically choose to not dismount and I don't really use octopus either Also, fun fact, I've been using duo attackers (using alt+tab or mouse clicking) with my corsair and shadower in many bosses (anything except toad/ht). i.e. don't really need to pay a lot of attention to my sair
Honestly I've been trying to find reasons to play my Corsair instead of my NL but everytime I do it I feel like it's just not worth it lol NL is just much easier to play in every aspect. So I keep flip flopping lol I think krex is really bad design and I still don't understand why wouldn't they fix that either by making it spawn mobs or buffing other bosses exp instead or something but that's another story. My point is, I really don't krex because I don't find it fun. You can krex while watching tv or whatever and I don't think that's truly playing. Krex runs are actually quite retarded and fucks up your brain cells
They will say if you think nl is better.just go play a nl. I will say you are right. You did totally explain what i want say in my heart.Including your feeling about krex...i am 200% agree with you.Please help us yall it out!
If you wanna play NL because its A. Easy B. Overpowered. C. FJ. Then by all means, go ahead. But changing other classes to be easy as Night lord is not fair. NL is depressing IMO, I know MANY people that quit NL because of this. Corsair is challenging, unique, diverse. The ones that LOVE the class like it the way it is (for the most part) I could agree on boat gaining HP back over time when not in use. That makes total sense. Thank you for making the post and starting the discussion, that is a good idea. This server is flooded with R>NL for ht smegas when a Paladin/shadower/bucc/corsair/BM Can down HT main body in 40mins with crap gear. While the NL party wasted BILLIONS on gear and washing to finish it in 50. This is only "NLstory" from nostalgia/ignorance. Not because it is the statistically optimum play style.
I don't want to change other classes kit to be easy as Night Lord. I also don't want to main nightlord even tho I think is by far the best class in the game, simply because I have quite a tendency to run away from the mainstream and the statistically optimum play style. I feel like the correct way to play this game is by having class diversity and not just nl, lol. Let's look into nightlords on this Maplestory version back in the day: Pros: - Highest single target damage in the game - Highest mobility in the game by far - Very good class for bossing - Scales well into late game - High avoidability - High Accuracy - Synergizes well with attack pots - Alchemist (pots last longer) Cons: - Low hp (it is a squishy class) - Needs party buffs (rellies on hb for hp increase and SE for ideal critical damage output) - Expensive (needs to attack pot for damage efficiency and stars were expensive) - Slow grinders early game - Not the best at grinding mobs maps So I look at all this and I think... hmm Seems ok, I mean, NL being the classic damage carry dealer and having the highest damage on the game, but heavily dependent on pots and a good party composition. Now lets look into Royals gameplay meta, regarding nightlord cons: - The fact that nightlords are supposed to have low hp originally, can be easily nullified with the hp wash glitch. Not to mention they benefit way more from this glitch than melee classes. Being squishy makes total sense on a ranged class like nightlord, that is why they have haste, high avoid and flash jump. Allowing hp wash is a terrible move. - The need of party buffs can be nullified too, since hb is worthless when the meta is about wash, or, if you pref, when hp wash is available. what about the need of SE? again, let me just log in my SE mule. - Being an expensive class doesn't really apply here on some points, because: nx is free, and so is marriage, which means apples are relatively cheap and easier to get than it was back then. This server is satured with apples, to a point where it is common sense and meta amoung the players to apple during an entire HT run even if you ain't nightlord. So I think to myself, if I'm appling anyways mind aswell just play nl lol. I remember back in the day, during HT run people would gizer or use some other pot except NightLords. About the stars, I think it's a bad move changing original stars drop rates - Steelys are meant to be early game star, I remember buying steelys for 8m back in the day. Same goes with ilbis, those stars are easy to get on this server, simply because the drop rate is way to high. The ilbi price was 40m, on EMS. Not saying the ilbi should be exactly 40m, but drop rate should definitely be lower than this. - Slow grinders early game. Let me just buy leech I guess o-o I mean with the current exp ratings, the game basically starts after level 135, and this was not a thing back then. The average player base would enjoy for a big while early~mid game content. Why is MM weak, after all? Because they have really good 3rd job, but when this server content is all about late game, makes them weak compared to Bowmasters. - About not being the best mobbers, this wont apply on Royals, since there is really no grinding content worth doing over bossing, so I can surely say, that this server only content is single target based. What kind of multi target content do you have? think about it. Theres cwkpq bottom bosses and thats it. I guess you need a melee too for Zakum arms and mobs and 1 melee for HT but thats pretty much it. Temple of Time should obviously get a buff, almost no1 grinds there and if there were party play incentive, other classes could be on pair with nightlord, and shine on other different content. I remember that back in the day people would grind ToT and Skele and not just run single target content like static bosses o-o I can only assume nightlord has no flaws under this server circumstances. In a perfect world, nightlords would not be that great for the early game, and for grinding, would also need lots of mesos to survive and would definitely need at least dark knights and sharp eyes in order to be usefull on a boss party. Note that they would still be overpowered. XD The need of party buffs (both hb and SE) is critical when making the comparison with Corsairs. Corsair could potentially be on pair with Nightlord, since this pirate aint really supposed to be as dependent on buffs like NL is, but can benefit from both and also SI. Huge Nightlord disadvantage is the need of a party, and that doesn't happen with sair. But again, both hpwash and multiclient are allowed. Like you said, Corsair kit is all about high skill high reward -> 100% true. However if you think about it nightlord would require skill too, dodging stuff with flash jump and shit but only if they had low hp like it was supposed to. You see what I mean? Makes no sense to have flash jump and high avoidability at this point. Nightlord is easy because you can fix all their flaws. Every single class in this game is supposed to shine on some stuff and suck on some other content that others have the kit for it. I don't want to change other classes to be as easy as Nightlord, I'm asking for grinding and multi target content, and I'm also asking for a Corsair buff without changing their challenging kit and unique playstyle. It's just not fair for corsairs, in my opinion. I want to play on a balanced server. You can keep the same playstyle without changing the kit much, just some CD or even HP regen on boat buff (Im not really sure whats the best approach here since im no experienced corsair). Nightlords have better damage, better mobility, more avoid and much easier playstyle, that's the difference between both classes. Being unique and challenging are the only reasons to play Corsair instead. Not fair in my opinion
@GunzGaming You seem to not enjoy nlstory either. Correct me if I'm wrong I have a washed level 160 nightlord and this class it's indeed overpowered. I also want to say that I respect corsair mains. Being a Corsair fits well in my book, I would grab a corsair into my boss runs any day over a NL. Not because I don't like the nightlord player behind the screen, but I hate how the server is all about NL. So I try my best to balance, in some way, to motivate the class diversity on the server. Faplords are wack but the sad truth is, I'm only hatin cuz they are overpowered and like you said the server is flooded with this class.
Don't you think, that buffing one of the strongest attackers on the server is the wrong direction? oO
I've thought about that too, but it can't stay the way it is, simply because it's worth to main nightlord over Corsair in every single aspect.
I do not mean to attack towards your opinion from my side, but that is purely your own definitions and opinion. I am still not convinced about that. While I do not own a corsair yet, I am looking forward to level up my outlaw finally while I gave up on my assassin since it is just too boring for me. If I added more one-sided examples to this, we would be even now, but after all this is just my personal preference. However, following this reverse logic, I could simply ask for a NL buff since they are just too boring to play. Of course if most corsairs on the server would vote towards buffing corsairs, everyone could just happily go on getting more and more op until we reach the meaningless mobilephone character, that today's GMS reached - but still I do not get at all why buffing the at least 2nd strongest class on the server makes any sense what so ever. Making every class equally OP is one of the biggest issues in long lasting RPQ related games in my observations, thats why I think it is the wrong way to break the game balance even further just because corsair feels not OP enough for some individuals. Because you are jealous at NLs when you are Corsair? Why not buff a 2handed axe warrior because it simply cannot stay the way it is, simply because it's worth to main nightlord over 2h axe hero in every single aspect? Or what about 2h blunt weapon? Or what about mages in boss fights? Do you see where this is going? If you do not want to make corsairs completely broken, how can you buff them without completely removing their high-skill-high-reward play style?
I did say Im not sure how to buff corsair. I'm still not sure if Corsair needs a buff directly. Removing multi client on boss runs is a good balance to the server. This way nightlord will for sure need an attacker providing se, to be on pair with corsairs.
It's not much, but it helps. Like I said, on a perfect world Corsair would be perfectly fine. But under this server circumstances, it's not
If you can't white a similarly geared NL as Corsair, you need to git gud. Serious jokes aside, the majority of the players desire NLs over Corsairs and that's not only due to FJ, Alchemist or high dmg. It's because you can afk-hold-1-button and watch Netflix at the same time while catering your 2nd son on your lap. NLs don't excel above Corsairs in every aspect of this game. If we do a quick census among the top sair players regarding the Corsair buff, I can guarantee that most will reply with a solid No. The advantages Corsairs have over NLs Less time to rebuff (ship and booster can be cast simultaneously) Bullets are larger in quantity (Effective against the dispel-spam boss) Octopus summon for grinding/afk farming Strong mob clear skill - Torpedo (way stronger than avenger) Aerial strike is extremely useful for area boss hunting and for grinding (bigger vertical hitbox than mage ult) Stronger raw DPS unless the player has bad control Ability to lock on 1 specific target (NLs waste time hitting flying mobs at Zakum etc.) Cannon and torpedo can shoot even at melee range (NLs would smack the target instead) Can freeze normal mobs (Ice Splitter) Can switch between cannon and afk-rapid fire for convenience if attacking from a safe spot Can smirk when buff-oriented classes DC during boss runs Recoil-Wing combination allows more exquisite mobility control than FJ although it has a shorter travel distance. There's nothing wrong with @Amnesiac who believes Corsair isn't worth to main over NL. That's his opinion based on the observations he made. However, many of us who spent the extra time and effort to explore this unique class found fascinating advantages. We believe Corsair is in a fine position. Let the lazy people main NL and we'll spend that extra sweat to white them. Edit: I guess QOL improvements would be nice while not affecting the dps of this class. A battleship detonate button for e.g
Sair is like drk, you get what you can give. Buffing the top dps class because of the inherent mechanics that make it top of the class is a big, and kinda selfish ask because unlike drk those mechanics don't hold it back from instantly dying, you just have to captain your ship more carefully. Only thing I can possibly suggest here is to have sairs avoid/dex formula just slightly raised, and I mean slightly, or give ship a speed boost only short enough to reposition where you just were, so a very small window, like 9/10 of a second
The problem was never the damage haha, my initial post was about 2 main things: 1. Making the ship mount and dismount animation be smoother (I sometimes have to press mount/dismount like 4 times before it works) and make it work better for people that live far away from the server (so we have a bit of difference with ping) and 2. Add Octopi into the rotation cause atm I don't feel like it's worth using. In other words, I want Octopi added in a way in which it can make Corsairs have less dmg if used incorrectly or more dmg if used correctly, which goes exactly the way the class is designed.
Octo is very easily added into rotation if you read the replies in the first page, you can remount in octo somersault
Quoting your topics: (Kinda lazy today) The advantages Corsairs have over NLs Less time to rebuff (ship and booster can be cast simultaneously. Not really worth to main Corsair because of this honestly. Bullets are larger in quantity (Effective against the dispel-spam boss) Same. Octopus summon for grinding/afk farming Thats usefull, but I've tried to farm zombie tooth just for fun on both classes, and NL wins every time. It's faster with flash jump, it has a smooth clear with avenger, and it's just better, in my opinion. Unless you want to afk farming. Strong mob clear skill - Torpedo (way stronger than avenger) I've tried to grind with some classes and I must say Nightlord is really not that bad. Corsair can have a stronger mob clear skill but nightlord is just faster to clear due to flashjump lol. Aerial strike is extremely useful for area boss hunting and for grinding (bigger vertical hitbox than mage ult) Corsair is indeed supposed to be better as a solo class. But keep in mind SE mule is a thing. I have a friend who farms nx and brings SE mule with him everytime Stronger raw DPS unless the player has bad control Let's imagine the Corsair player has not perfect but solid control, will he be stronger than NL with SE? Ability to lock on 1 specific target (NLs waste time hitting flying mobs at Zakum etc.) While corsairs waste time mounting/dismount Cannon and torpedo can shoot even at melee range (NLs would smack the target instead) True, but you really don't use cannon all the time :s Can freeze normal mobs (Ice Splitter) True, but kinda irrelevant, when there's 1 melee clearing mobs, or when NLs can 1 shot mobs with avenger like zak. Can switch between cannon and afk-rapid fire for convenience if attacking from a safe spot ???? Is this an advantage over NL? You said nl is 1 key based. Why you mention this? Can smirk when buff-oriented classes DC during boss runs That's true, and like I said, Corsair ain't dependent on buffs like NL is and that's something meant to happen and players can't really fix this unless they bring back up mules which is a possibility since multi client is allowed into boss runs. When I used to run horntail with some friends, we all had stable connections and my bowmaster buddy never really disconnects. Recoil-Wing combination allows more exquisite mobility control than FJ although it has a shorter travel distance. Wings is fun and recoil allows Corsair to have the second best mobility in the game but it has cd and flash jump is better in every single way possible. Won't even argue that "There's nothing wrong with @Amnesiac who believes Corsair isn't worth to main over NL. That's his opinion based on the observations he made. However, many of us who spent the extra time and effort to explore this unique class found fascinating advantages. We believe Corsair is in a fine position. Let the lazy people main NL and we'll spend that extra sweat to white them. Edit: I guess QOL improvements would be nice while not affecting the dps of this class. A battleship detonate button" I don't want a damage buff. I want a boat CD reduction or HP regen. I like it when you mention a QOL improvement. Just feels underwhelming to put way to much work on a character just to be a bit weaker or even only a bit stronger than NL who allows you to be lazy and press only 1 key. It doesn't seem fair to me. Do you guarantee an average Corsair having better damage output over NL with SE? Even on perfect conditions, and I mean dismounting perfectly, and let's say with all buffs, I can believe corsairs will deal higher dmg. But to dismount/mount and position perfectly for example on a HT run it takes a lot more work than NL. Even if there's a difference on dmg its way little, near to insignificant. Is it really worth it to get burned out after a run just to kill the boss 2 mins faster? Corsair being slight better on damage numbers won't really matter for me, and it's not only the damage factor I take into account. It's the mobility, the cheaper hp wash.... I can wash nightlord to 12k and with the same money I can only wash Corsair to 10-11k hp which means I would have to find hb for shao. Not worth it. Corsair feels underwhelming when comparing to NL but that's just my opinion. I never said I want a Corsair kit or play style change. I don't want a damage buff either. Maybe I don't even want to change Corsair on any way, changing this class may not be the way to go. There's a lot of classes that need some sort of rework first. Ive seen a thread on the forum lately regarding the decline of heroes. Let's see: hp wash glitch is allowed on the server -> dark knights suck because hero exists. Dark knights got a damage buff -> now people saying hero is declining. Just think about it, it all started with this shit hp wash and multi client trash features, along with other stuff, so the game is completely unbalanced now. I wouldn't rate nightlords to be overpowered if it wasn't under this server circumstances, meta and environment. This class is so broken it makes no sense to me. But I also think nerfing it is a bad move, maybe create content appealing to other classes, or maybe just don't allow multi client into boss runs (that would indirectly buff corsairs and paladins), and not having this hp washing glitch allowed would be fair to dark knights and warriors in general. I know it's to late for that since I've seen GMs washing their own characters. Lawl. What an example. Just don't allow SE mules into boss runs I guess. That would help corsairs. It makes no sense for me to main Corsair over Nightlord on this server, it just doesn't, sadly. Unless I want to be unique and play a different and challenging play style or just for fun. Literally the same logic apply to every single other class, I mean we all know nighlord is #1 when all we have is single target content. How easy and high reward nightlords are, while having almost to no flaws, makes the rest of the classes weak. Fix this
