So as we all already know, crash was reworked in update 71 (https://royals.ms/forum/threads/update-71-02-04-2021.188095/). To sum it up: - party buff that gives 50% chance to ignore cancel - no cooldown - very small buff range - bosses cancel more often I can only assume (according to what staff members say on the forums) that these changes were made to battle the muling meta and to make paladin mains more viable. It achieved the exact opposite and I'll explain why after testing it already: Take me as an example (bucc + stanced paladin mule): My Scar/Targa and Nibergen solos just got a lot easier with this change, and in HT I can just park my paladin on top of the party and spam crash whenever I like. (it's also worth mentioning that my one crash mule is enough and there's no need for more now) Party space? no problem. most people I know run quads nowadays and theres always party space, and even if you don't - its really not hard to juggle the bishop in and out when you need to HS. Now take a look at paladin mains: Life is harder for you now, for your crash to be effective your party has to be grouped up, or you have to go to them physically to cast it which makes you lose a lot of DPS buffing. Also your old crash which was a really useful skill is now only 50%, which is honestly a very bad feeling. Now, would parties prefer taking an active paladin or just an attacker with stanced crash to sit on top of them? you know the answer. Personally, I have both options open for me, I can play an attacker+crash or main my paladin and mule something else. My paladin even has my best untradeables and I love it's gameplay, but will it ever be efficient to play it? hell no. You also gotta look at the more casual bossers in the server, there are many many players who chose to do the bare minimum and make a level 80 unstanced crash mule just to get into good endgame runs. Well, their mule is now dead and it's back to struggling for these people because nobody is gonna juggle parties for a mule that takes 40 seconds to climb to the other party members. This change was really uncalled for, I don't know why that was your final decision and it could be prevent with a little bit of extra testing and thought. In conclusion, you did not nerf crash mules, you just made main paladins weaker and crash a worse buff and by that you actually BUFFED the mule meta by letting parties run only 1 crash and focus on other mules.
just my opinion - the 50% chance to bypass weapon cancel is pretty meme in HT. During HT body, whenever weapon cancel is up, attackers can either : 1 - hit the weapon cancelled target for 50% of the time OR 2 - they can hit another body part for 100% of the time which kinda defeats the purpose of the new crash change in the first place.
I agree. It makes more sense to hit other body party for 100% dps rather than 50% dps. But, this requires other body part to be alive, which means Warrior like Hero or DRK now worse in HT since killing Hand/Wing too fast will slow down run.
lol u won my comment, ppl were not understanding why i said drks/heros got indirictly nerfed with this change.
I have a Pally that's an actual attacker, though I haven't really tested out the new crash in a boss setting yet, but it sounds like there's some issues with it. Personally, I was never a fan of the old "Bring 3 crash mules to boss" meta, and the way Royals implemented the total crash skill was sloppy at best. I don't have an issue of it being a party buff in theory, so what do you think are ways would we could improve the current crash? Improve the range? Make it last longer? Make it 100% but put a cd on the skill? Even if people still end up muling crash for the buff, it'd still be an improvement to only need to bring 1 crash mule rather than having to bring say, 3 or 4 of them.
I think current crash should not be a thing and should be reverted ASAP. As for old crash, you are asking a very complex question, and I can't give you a straight answer without a lot of thinking. But that's what community feedback is for don't u think? a thread with a poll could be great instead of following 1 man's suggestion and tweaking it to 50% too.
This change was made to reduce the necessity of multiple crash mules in runs to obtain the optimal weapon cancel downtime, as well as attempting to incentivise playability over muling due to a short skill duration and shorter range. I would expect that only requiring 1 crash mule in itself is an improvement, as you say now allowing you to bring other mules instead. We are open to feedback and suggestions on this skill change, and although no suggestions were given in your post, I presume that increasing the % chance, maybe up to 100%, and increasing the range of the skill are things that would help retain the skill's usefulness? Edit: I notice you have given the suggestion of reverting the skill entirely, do you not feel that improvements could be made to it's current party skill form?
In my opinion, the new crash should have a 30s cooldown and a higher % to bypass wep cancel (I am thinking around 75-100%). Sure you can still spam it to have it up 100% uptime but its not just spamming it for the sake of spamming it and some thought will go into when you are using it. As for Donnie's closing remarks, paladin mains who achieved high levels will surely have a great advantage by having stance and guardian. That is not the case for many players. If you want to have a mule soak your exp by keeping it in the party, power to you. This change definitely hurts crash mules and paladins but to say that you can mule it easy and therefore everyone can (because you are in a small group of elite) is counterproductive. Most people do not have a stance+guardian enabled crash mule. Using the argument that you do quad runs and therefore you can fit a mule applies to perhaps 5% of the community doing quad runs. This change is extremely annoying and different for all the top players out there but helps the majority of paladin mains that have not achieved the end game where they can afford to quad-trio mule every boss. A lot of people still do 6 man ht and having a paladin in a party like that is gonna be productive. As to the people saying the runs are gonna be slower now, sure they are, the meta that existed over the last 3 years made the concept of weapon cancel irrelevant. People used 3 crash mules and did not have to deal with any consequences from cancels. Lastly, most of the feedback from top players addresses the paladin issue at HT. This buff is insanely good for solo play (thinking Pianus), Zakum, Krex, Scarga and Nibergen. Another benefit of this new crash is that you can now buff mages who can deal damage during magic cancel for Zak/HT and other bosses. Why is everyone ignoring this? That being said, I do believe the numbers are quite bad right now. I would want to see the 50% go up and giving a 30s cooldown to the spell. This change is massive in terms of implication for the meta and it is completely normal to see push back and resistance towards change. I am glad this thread exist and I hope gms will monitor.
The reason my thread did not include any suggestions is because I think its not an easy change to make, and it would require me to test it (which is what the staff team is for) which I simply cannot do in advance as a player. If you want some direction - personally, I'm against crash being a buff but if you really wanna go down that path, try to do it in a way that wont completely trash paladin mains and would be easy to buff. Also 50% chance to ignore shouldn't be a thing, that should be 100% in any case, either with a buff or just regular skill. I can only give some thoughts on what to consider when you make such change, which I did in this thread.
At minimum, the rate at 50% is just feels bad. 100% with a cd would feel much better even if it's the same damage boost overall. As for exact numbers, the main metric that needs to be considered is how much dps boost should having a paladin give the party? With the current CWA timings, it seems like there's a 25% uptime on CWA, so a paladin gives your party a 12.5% overall damage boost if there's one target to attack. I would set CWA/CMA uptime to whatever that % for paladin power is and change total crash to 100% to pierce and lasting 20 seconds. Then if you really want to promote paladin mains, try to have a charge up on total crash like there is for energy bubble, but the tiny range and if you add a 1 minute CD like HT and Zak had on their CWA, that makes muling already a big pain in the butt.
but they shouldn't have to deal with it because they put in the effort to level a crash mule, its the same with any kind of mule, why single out paladins? The same could be said for sed mules, people make sed mules so they don't have to deal with sed.
Change crash buff to 100%, 30s but similar to holy shield with a CD. Increase the Crash Buff range to at least HS size.
If staff will absolutely commit to this revamp of the crash mechanics then increasing the potency (% chance to 100), increasing cast range, and creating a no-delay animation, kind of like shadow stars, (since new paladin mains will lose dps if they recast a skill every 30s or more if someone is out of range) will help paladin mains be more welcomed into boss runs and address the triple crash muling fiasco. The higher frequency weapon cancel+ lower duration should be relooked at as well. There's already been a few runs where this happens: 1) Head with weapon cancel 2) Party switches to arms/wings 3) Weapon cancel goes away 4) The whole party tediously crawl their way up the heads again and constantly falling (HT Jq as most say it) 5) By the time they reach the head again the weapon cancel is recasted. I can see that the change in weapon cancel mechanics was in correlation with the changes to crash mechanics to help address the muling issue, but causing already-long boss runs to run longer might have been an unintended consequence of this.
Guardian is nearly useless, and having a stanced crash mule is not an elite thing anymore, but a norm for midgame players. Times changed, LOTS more people run quads and have stanced crash mules, it's not an elite thing. Personally I don't run quads atm because I simply cant profit from that anymore, your arguement would be right a few months back, not in the current state of the server.
SED mules do not remove the need for a shadower. They have a different purpose. Crash mules make paladins lose so much effectiveness. Why bring a paladin when you can bring a NL + Crash mule. The same cannot be said of sed mules. You can bring a shad+ sed mule it doesn't take away from the purpose of the shad. Furthermore, I have not played shad and I am in no position to suggest stuff or demand balance changes for shads. I think this change is a good one for paladins but hurts people who made crash mules and invested in them. If shadowers are happy with the fact that sed mules are mostly shadower, I do not see why they should change it. The only reason why crash mules are controversial is because you alienate and render paladin mains weaker.
sed mules remove the need for an active bishop though, people just mule bishop with a sed mule knowing that they don't need to care about sed mechanic.
Wouldn’t it be NL+CR > Paladin right now..? Maybe more of a range check, “I’m a 7.5k NL with CR, Oh sorry buddy. 8k + only, we have CR” Since a super large playerbase have stance crash mules now anyway. Controlling it to chill around your NLs ain’t difficult too. But that aside it just kinda makes crash meh, when the attackers can just attack other parts of horntail no? I don’t even wanna talk about zak which is way easier to mule now with a white knight. sed mule allows a muled bishop to be way more effective, be it clearing spawns, dispelling heads. edit: i guess bs + NL probably can have a free pass through range checks still i guess LOL!
