We had no intention in forcing players to recruit a paladin. I sincerely hope that we respect the paladin as a class rather than a mule. Sure we still can use it as a crash mule, but the mule itself shouldn’t bring an excessive or same amount of value as a paladin main to the party. Even though the previous cr mule meta speed up the run substantially, I doubt if the majority of new or veteran players enjoy bringing a crash mule every single time, especially after gathering the inputs from our mule/multi-client thread and in-game discussion. On the changes: We originally only implemented the reduced cancel cooldown and duration. However, this change alone would hurt both pala main and crash mule at the same level. After gathering some inputs from the class balancing thread, we decided to make the crash a party skill to promote the party role of paladin without completely remove the existence of crash mule. Are we still able to bring the crash mule? Yes Is the paladin main better than the crash mule? Yes On the final say, the crash is subject to change and we would love to hear your feedback! How would you change it if you are able to?
The buff range needs to be at least HS range!! I was testing the buff range with my mule in fm and the vertical range is shorter than my max jump range. Yes, if I jump and cast it at the highest point of my jump, it does not reach the person I'm standing right on top of LOL. Also 50% hit chance is really low.
having 3 crs ensure the equal contribution of every single atker. Now, what? bs+se+sed+cr mule line up? lmao. Contructive Suggestion: revert back the old cr itself ty.
Maybe a buff can work over regular crash, maybe not - that's not my point. It should be reverted as a hotfix until you think of a better soilution together with the rest of the community, because the way it is right now bossing is just painful.
Making Total Crash a Party Buff: Total Crash was a custom change made by the Staff in an attempt to incentivise playing the (at the time) not-so-popular class Paladin. Paladin has seen a considerable upswing in popularity (partly due to adding Elemental Weaknesses to bosses), but we also observe that the change has given rise to a considerable use of White Knight mules. With this change, in conjunction with the changes made to Weapon and Magic Attack Cancels in some major bosses, we are now hoping to reduce the viability of such mules, without overly punishing active Paladin players. The shorter duration of bosses' Cancel buffs means that the time it takes to manage a separate mule client leads to a loss of efficiency with regards to applying the buff to your party members. The short range of the party buff also helps with this, incentivising staying close together and working as a team to tackle bosses' Weapon and Magic Cancels most effectively. As a player with 2 Paladins (lvl 200,17x) and 1 white knight, this update made paladins less wanted as a mule/main. Making Total Crash a Party Buff: Total Crash was a custom change made by the Staff in an attempt to incentivise playing the (at the time) not-so-popular class Paladin.: -I think the current buff is the opposite of incentivising paladins, the old Total Crash was fine they are only not-so-popular now because: 1. As a BW paladin you have to self scroll your own weapons because scrolled crushed skulls aren't readily available 2. The common misconception that paladins suck (Misunderstood class will lead to having a hard time joining parties - Haplopelma) 3. Their class identity being BW but SWORD being the better weapon (SWORD paladins are generally players who are funded or coming from finishing their hero) 4. CRASH MULES are the lowest level mules to make finishing at 3rd job ( people would rather bring a NL with the mule rather than just a Paladin main) Paladin has seen a considerable upswing in popularity (partly due to adding Elemental Weaknesses to bosses), but we also observe that the change has given rise to a considerable use of White Knight mules. - The elements are literally all it has going for it as 3rd job, crash is the only thing making it worth while but realistically you aren't going to be using crash playing as a 3rd job White knight, it's literally for when you're 4th job and ready to boss With this change, in conjunction with the changes made to Weapon and Magic Attack Cancels in some major bosses, we are now hoping to reduce the viability of such mules, without overly punishing active Paladin players. - It's true people would rather take a different attacker with a CR mule, but why "reduce the viability of such mules"? it's as viable as any other mule and mules inherently diminishes a player with an actual character of the said class The shorter duration of bosses' Cancel buffs means that the time it takes to manage a separate mule client leads to a loss of efficiency with regards to applying the buff to your party members. - With the old crash mechanic, having an actual paladin main reduces the timer itself as I'm already there attacking and I don't have to walk to the boss to hit my crash, making it more DPS efficient The short range of the party buff also helps with this, incentivising staying close together and working as a team to tackle bosses' Weapon and Magic Cancels most effectively. - The more annoying it is to use the CR buff efficiently only makes people hate the change OVERALL: - Crash change made things worse and we should just revert back to the way it was or change the way the buff works without making it bothersome to use viably - This punished Paladins and mules hard (crash being one of the lowest level mules to make made you as a player more wanted in runs) Bosses generally want 3 CR mules preferably in the run and it seems like people want that to change to where they don't need so many but I personally have no problems with it (biased as I own 3 CR mains) and it's finished at 3rd job compared to other mules requiring you to go to 4th job
The thing is, if their role is easily fulfilled right now with just 1 crash mule instead of 3, who would ever recruit paladin? At the very least before the change happened, paladins are sometimes recruited to ease the burden of muling for some parties, or to fulfil the "3 crash = perma crash" perk. Now that only 1 crash mule is required for perma crash and that everyone and their cats have crash mules these days, paladin would lose that role. Also, having X amount of crash mules in a run is a luxury and not an obligation by any stretch, so i never understood the need to change how crash works. Basically it's like holy shield, people can choose to bring 3 bishop mules to perma holy shield themselves at AUF and BGA, it's a luxury and not an obligation.
Total crash was added before paladins received the long waited buff via addition of elemental weakness to all bosses. If we imagine paladin's crash buff is turned into a similar debuff like other warriors, where will paladins stand in the bossing scene without total crash? Are they still less wanted than other warriors in majority of end game bosses/PQs? I only know 3 occasions where multi-target warriors excel. Namely Zakum arm stage, CWKPQ bossing stage and Shaolin (Maybe HT body as well although this one is controversial). Almost every other bosses in Royals are single target, allowing paladins to dish out more damage than hero/drk. Aren't paladins treated as an attacker because of their solid dps, not crash ability? At the moment, it feels like everyone is spoiled by this extrme convenience factor "weapon-cancel-nullification" that they treat paladins as an unwanted class when it's absenct. How do you reckon other warriors find bossing parties if pallies struggle like you describe.
If the se role is fulfilled with an se mule, why recruit archers? I feel like you answered that question here. Crash is now more burdensome to use and you probably want a crash with stance to stay up there and buff you, so that's about the same level requirement as a se mule (129). And right now, crash buff is a lot more troublesome than buffing se. Are you trying to say palas are totally useless if they do not have crash, I'm sure they do more damage than an archer easily, and archers are wanted all the time. It would be more efficient to bring a pala main and mule se than to bring a se main and mule a crash. You're speaking as if all a pally brings to a ht pt is their use as a crash mule.
DrK DPS outclasses paladin even on single target if I'm not wrong? Heroes are only marginally inferior. Paladins have the added utility in knocking back bosses with high KB targets (namely NT bosses) - a niche shared by shadowers and buccaneers but not by Heroes/Dark Knights. A speed run set-up will always attempt to source the optimal party that maximises DPS (and thus most classes won't be considered in selection of attackers). If you're not doing a speed run, does it really matter what class the attackers are? Apart from Marksmen who are heavily outdamaged by everyone except mages, DPS/DPM of random recruitments will almost always vary depending on range. Thus the easier solution for the less funded newer players will inevitably be making a mule to make themselves a more competitive candidate.
Not true. Archers are hardly recruited because of how easy it is to mule a SE. The only time archer is recruited for a public run is for CWKPQ or when the party does not have a SE mule. Also, SE is more important than crash. Let's not talk about runs with guildies or friends cos they don't count. Only in HT it would be burdensome, there's other bosses in the game that doesn't require you to move your crash much. The current crash mechanics just takes away paladin's role in zak, krex, neo tokyo bosses & scar/targa when muling is available. No, what i'm trying to say is that there are better alternatives to a paladin attacker since their utility can easily be utilized via a mule now (1 mule instead of 3 for perma crash). Of course, if you want to talk about solely HT, then you might have a point regarding that burdensome part, but you can't deny that the current skill mechanics completely nullifies the need for a paladin attacker in any other boss context when muling is available. I don't think its a fair statement to make given that you cherry picked the examples to fit your narrative. Let me ask you then, would you rather have a NL attacker +crash mule or a paladin as an attacker to go zak/krex/scar? Sparky, you would be correct if the alternate choices were limited to only hero and drk, but they're not.
Not that I know of, even after the latest Drk dmg buff. I'd love to see an experiment with equally funded pally/drk to prove it. When boss runs are recruited, surely there can't be a line of hundred favorable classes waiting for pick up (NL, bucc?) every moment. With limited runs allocated per day, the number of strong candidates would naturally decline over the day. To fill up even the minimum numbers required to get the bossing squads going, won't ppl take the next strongest attacker in line or depending on their manners, regardless of their class? With this in mind, I'm asking if paladins are really that useless of a class in the absence of this "total crash" skill because many people describe paladin with utter dependence on a single utility (de)buff.
Paladin class isn’t bad, but it isn’t amazing either. Imo a loved and balanced class getting nerfed, with the intention to reduce the amount of amount of mules demand & make this class more popular is good, but not fixing anything but nerfing paladin is the main issue. That aside, as of today I’d take your Corsair or Drk over any #1 paladin in a HT run anyday. Why? More dps of course. Maybe more then a marksman, probably not a BM.
Total crash is MapleRoyals' Unique skill It is too useful , I don't think revert back or improve currently skill can reach our goal (decrease crash mule and let real paladin attacker shine) 1st Thx to Staffs' effort trying to let game better New total crash is useful when I going zak/krex/scar/targa/niberg .. , when the boss no need many attackers , have team space to put in and only need 1 paladin cuz no cd. But is bad for Ht right now Old total crash let Ht can have 2+ multiple target attackers ( dk/hero/shadower) in pt even hand warn so fast , u still can do dps when u have 3 crash , will not hit air and waste att potions and then slower the run . How about Remove weapon cancel from all boss? Add more Hp to the boss that removed weapon cancel change paladin total crash too skill like dk/hero and buff their DpM or let game playing method fun (Buff Jobs instead of Nerf Jobs) So players will not feel waste when stopper/apple and hit 1111111..... Negative thing is MM snipe can work when weapon cancel (Buff ) Gone again but we can balance jobs again, although never heard a game is balance , but we can try make job fun instead (like those ppl who main unpopular job and make them amazing there is a good thread that u can give advice https://royals.ms/forum/threads/class-balancing.187398/
In my opinion probably best solution suggested by @EZFebreezy is to just completely remove Total Crash & CWA/CMA. With conjunction to that, possible fixes to threaten working on bosses, more straight damage buffs to pally and increasing HP on bosses might solve this artificial "crash mule" requirement perceived by most people. From how I see the current changes in Total Crash, the current "optimal" horntail party layout would just be all ranged, just like how it was before the old Total Crash was introduced. Why would players rely on the 50% to break through weapon/magic cancel when they can just rotate parts? Even if it was changed to 100% break through weapon cancel/magic cancel is juggling mules really a good mechanic? The only positive thing that came out of the old Total Crash was party layouts were much more flexible, it was not a bad idea to bring melee character(s) because the parties would not be bottle necked with cancel weapon attack and stuck with the hand warnings.
That's why I quoted this other part earlier: There isn't always a se mule, or people don't want to bother, so they get an archer attacker. So people will take palas to fulfill a crash role too, when they have no crash mules. There is no shame in joining a public run because they need you for a role. If high level parties want maximum dps they will always go for NLs/whatever funded classes and mule everything anyway, be it 1 crash or 3 crash needed. New crash mechanics, old crash mechanics, doesn't matter. If you don't have the dps you were always out. There's no really getting around that an NL with mule will almost always get taken over the actual class with the buff as long as it's not inconvenient. Even if you revert back to previous crash, they'll still take a NL/stronger attacker with crash over a pala. I don't exactly think this is the way to go but, if you really want there to be more pally in parties compared to just a single mule/pally, there was another feedback thread where someone suggested the crash buff effectiveness be increased according to how many pallys there are in pt. There, now you can have some reason to recruit another pally even though you have a crash in party already. But then people could just mule that too right? I'm not so sure if it is possible either. said thread: https://royals.ms/forum/threads/stackable-crash-buff.188134/ I hardly do those bosses, but I would personally take the pally because it seems like a pain to mule, though I suppose it doesn't matter to me/I don't care if I'm not the one putting in the effort. I'm not huge on dps so if I'm getting an attacker for cwkpq mage boss I might pick a se main over a nl with se mule for cwk for less complicated parties, lol. But that's just me and it varies according to parties/people/what roles are needed; not many will agree with me. I also sort of like the idea of having HT in general be less reliant on crashes/pally/crash mules, and buffing pally in other ways, but I don't know how to make that work without reducing the viability of the shad/drks/heroes who were only great for ht because crash existed.
I am very curious about the inputs on removing the CWA/CMA. I agree that it's annoying to hit 1/1 but is it worth it to remove it completely? if we remove CWA/CMA, what is the role of a paladin? what skill/functions are we going to replace the total crash with?
CWA crash was a CUSTOM FIX. Paladins exist perfectly fine on other servers because they don't have part of their power budget allocated to a CUSTOM CHANGE that vastly increases party dps at bosses that have CWA. Their role would be to HELP KILL THE BOSS!
But this mentality is exactly what we want to avoid - paladins are not and should not be just about their ability to crash :’)
I think yall misunderstand me. I meant if we remove the WCA/MCA, what skill/functions are we going to replace the total crash with?
