I like to live in la la land, so disregard my comment here if you feel like it. To be honest, weapon/magic cancel are useless boss mechanics that do nothing other than prolong fights and make people burn pots. If I really could, the least I would do is get rid of most boss' ability to "cancel" attacks and replace it with attack reflection. This makes people actually have to pay attention to boss animations, as well as keep track of the timer (early Cygnus boss, anyone?) Then, paladin's role would be nullifying damage taken from reflect. This makes more sense to me, thematically for a paladin (that is, the paladin is the party's shield), than the way the current game functions. Of course, this is just my la la land comment that I've given a moment's thought to. Sorry if it doesn't really add to this discussion.
I suggest you give the class balance thread another read, because all we talked about there is potential (none crash related) buffs to paladin. thanks! Edit: As was said before me, a skill similar to the drk/hero would could do just fine, as long as u give paladins enough power to be viable
Agree about cancel, I have always said this. I think just making cancel a bit shorter was a good move But I haaaaate reflect
Okay, so I was thinking of making a separate thread to gather all these ideas (I am open to making it its own thread too), but for now, I'll add it to this thread since it's still pretty active. Essentially I'm just expanding upon my previous post here. The main thing I'm questioning is, "Why do Palladins need to have a Total Crash skill?" It's not like it's a choice that's bound to any "nostalgic" gameplay in pre-bb GMS. There's nothing really forcing us to make Pallys have this skill, so instead, why not give it to another warrior class...heroes... That being said, here's my proposed change list: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HEROES: (4TH JOB) ENRAGE: gives a party buff that allows people to hit through CWA/CMA 100% of the time cooldown is 4 min at level 1 --> 2 min at max level duration is 20 seconds at level 1 --> 1 min at max level Range of skill is about the same as SI or HS ADVANCED COMBO ATTACK: The max damage boost given to all skills from the orbs now applies at all times, regardless of how many orbs you currently have Still need to charge orbs to power up Panic and Coma, and need 10 orbs to use Enrage PALADINS: (2ND JOB) BW MASTERY: Increase blunt weapon mastery to 70% at max level (3RD JOB) TOTAL CRASH: remove total crash skill from paladins (NEW SKILL) ADVANCED THREATEN: Has up to a 100% chance temporarily decreases Attack, Defense, Magic Attack, and Accuracy by a fixed %, AND affects boss monsters as well Master level is 10 requires skill Threaten to be at level 20 stat effects scales from 21% at level 1 --> 30% at max level duration for att/m.att/defense scales from 84 seconds at level 1 --> 120 seconds at max level duration for acc scales from 9 seconds from level 1 --> 18 seconds at max level chance of it working scales from 55% chance at level 1 --> 100% chance at max level (4TH JOB) BLAST: Improve the speed and damage of Blast Speed of skill increased from 630ms --> 600ms when at 2 speed Increase the % damage from 580% --> 590% at max level GUARDIAN (for pallys only): Increase chance of block from 15% --> 25% at max level MOBS: Revert the cooldown for CWA/CMA back to what it was before for all mobs (keep the duration as it is though) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Okay, so you might be asking yourself, "Why heroes, instead of Pallys?" Again, there's nothing saying that we need to have Pallys have a total crash skill. I believe that Heroes could utilize it much better for a handful of reasons, as well as addressing issues on both sides of the argument: Enrage already requires 25 points be put into ACA, so requiring a higher level to access it Having to charge your orbs up to use the skill means you can't just mule a low level hero, since you need to be able to hit the mob to build orbs up Turns a fairly underwhelming skill of enrage into a more useful skill Enrage doesn't have a large delay in it's use so it doesn't reduce dps all that much Tweaking ACA's mechanics means that using Enrage won't also lose dps, and allows you to use Panic and Coma without losing dps On the said of people who don't want to lose your crash mules, worry not, because with the Pally skill change, they now get turned into Threaten Mules instead. So if you want, you can still bring in your mule to use threaten if you don't have an attacking pally in your party to do that job. If you do have like 3 crash mules already, then well, I guess 2 of them are useless, but I think for most part, people who do have crash mules tend to only have 1 anyways. Also, why add Advance Threaten, instead of just modifying the original skill? I feel like it's a good replacement for a fairly underwhelming Magic Crash skill, plus the people who have level 80 crash mules won't feel like they over-leveled to get the 1 skill they need. Additionally, since Pallys no longer have the Total Crash skill at their disposal, their attacking prowess would be buffed slightly to make them more desirable as a single target attacker. I also felt that buffing guardian as well helps them be more defensive as well, playing into their tanky theme a bit more. In an ideal world, I think buffing the damage cap to 299k would be the best solution as far as helping Pallys out (As well as Marksman) (and buccs to a lesser extent), but since it's supposedly not possible to do that (according to the staff), we'll have to go with buffing Blast and mastery a bit to accomplish that. Lastly, I've seen some people suggest getting rid of CWA/CMA entirely, and while I think they are very flawed in their implementation, I think we can keep it in. Just de-emphasize it's presence in the game, which is why I suggest reverting the cooldown to skill to what it was before, but keep the duration of the skill itself the same. Having someone who can cancel CWA is a nice bonus, but shouldn't be an absolute requirement I guess. So yeah, I like to think these ideas acknowledges both sides of the Crash mule argument in way that's fair and balanced. I'd like to hear your thoughts! EDIT: change ACA's description to be less confusing
So I asked earlier but no one really answered the question. If the total crash is taken away and there are no more weapon/magic cancels, are paladin's ok on their own as pure dmg dealers in the bossing scene? I'm asking not because I'm against something. I saw numerous people going nuts with the dependence on the total crash. I personally thought pallies would be in a fine position but some of my guildies reminded me how the presence of Buccs outshines Pallies (without a unique utility) completely because they are both single target specialists and Buccs produce higher, yet more stable dmg while offering 2 unique utility buffs. Other classes offer something unique on their own, but pallies feel like the backward-compatible version of Buccs if their total crash is taken away, along with weapon/magic cancels from bosses. Simply buffing their dmg won't do the trick because they are limited by dmg cap anyway. Are paladin mains ok with letting go of their only utility skill that once provided a unique advantage? I still believe making the total crash a charge-based buff is the best option to prevent manipulation of crash mules while encouraging every serious bossing party to recruit an active paladin main. Every other suggestion I have seen so far still allows or encourages mulling, regardless of the crash effect.
Unfortunately, the charge-based (similar to energy charge) buff is not possible in the current game version it would be really great if is implementable
That's true but they could have done this anyway. But it would still stop the low end muling, which was the problem
What about Threaten? Even if none of my ideas from my above post is used, and the staff go with getting rid of CWA/CMA entirely, as long as you tweak threaten to affect boss monsters as well, then Pallys will have a unique utility skill. Not only is it more nostalgic cuz it's an original skill of Pally's rather than a customized skill, but it also makes it so people with White Knight Mules still have a use by being threaten mules.
I think replacing one mule with another is sort of pointless in this particular case, but I do agree, and we both had the same 3rd job threaten buff idea (but I don't think the rates should be so high in yours), that threaten has been requested for a slight buff and a small boss affectation forever
From what I remember, Matt mentioned in 2017 shoutbox that client restrictions disallow % application of threaten skill effect. I guess the sheer - armor digit can be increased dramatically to make it a useful utility buff but I thought the direction of recent updates is heading towards the reduction of mules. I'd personally go against creation of additional mules if avoidable.
With peer servers with similar versions doing the clients needed to implement the % reduction, I don't really buy any "can't be implemented".
I'm not huge on the mule culture either, but I understand that you can't really get rid of muling as a whole either, at least not without pissing off a large portion of the community. If I had to compare Crash mules and threaten mules, I'd say Threaten mules are the lesser of 2 evils in this case, cuz you would only need one mule rather than having 3 in the old crash mule system. Increasing Pally's attack abilities would hopefully encourage more people to bring them as attackers for boss, which would hopefully lower the amount of threaten mules in the first place. I'll order some pizzas for him too if that's what it takes
To clarify this point about "who is stronger" After drks got buffed, i heard so many times that the job was overpowered, so i decided to try back then i was 13.4k range and i came to the following conclusions: Since a 11k pally already hit cap once in a while(on apple and mostly on crits) from that point onwards they start to get better in terms of stability, drks have pretty much to roof(for now). To sum up you need to be 13.75k range clean to actually match a pally in terms of single target dmg, before that you will be weaker in single target, 13k drk vs 12k pally(similar fundings due multipliers) pally will be slighty stronger/ 12k drk vs 11.xk pally pally is decently stronger in single target.Sofar i think theres only 5 drks user that can actually beat a pally in single target dmg(not to count that if multiclient you need to be skillfull or really more funded to beat a pally on a drk) Heros shine at the same places as drks, so the argument of "hero is useless at this x point" its not different from drk, drks sucks where heros suck. Now drks are better than heros if you single client, or if youre really experienced and skill full on multiclient. As someone who tried quad client on HT(and trio client pretty often now), i can tell you the difference in terms of dmg between a hero and a drk gets comepensated by 1.- overheals(at the moment you moving your mule to do sometyhing and you see your drk going under 7k hp, its very common to use more pots than you should) and deaths, those seconds that you waste waiting to be ress, really make a difference.
Got a crash of my own, so I was a little disappointed with the update. But I’m glad gm’s are proactive in attempting to make more classes inclusive in boss runs So keep up the good work
I definitely love a few if these ideas: -buffing bws (specifically 2hbw as well) -changing the nature or effect of enrage (and rage) yes, I have suggestions in my thread as well on enrage, but I doubt wc/mc will be totally wiped. 100% cancel ignore is a bit high and will just create enrage mules, especially if all they have to do is press aca and then spam enrage on blast speed, I think it's fine, just make final attack work with it. Would help 2hbw a lot since your FA speed is +1 your current definitely ok with a guardian buff, I love it, I would have said 20% if asked, or even 18% I only disagree about the combo orbs not building, that is an important mechanic. As far as the three warriors go, they each have a conditional set up, drks berserk being the hardest, heroes 2nd, palas third (just press charge), and as things stand atm, this seems fair. Maybe enrage could increase orb accrual as well as other changes. Small, but something
