Sunscreen is actually dope if you just barely don't have enough hp for toad or for zak helm/HTP buyers!
Why are you suggesting this hypothetical person does not have any sign mules? If they don't have sign mules they can't even participate in the first place. If this theoretical person you're talking about can already participate in a 3 man run, they likely have at least 1 attacker and 2 mules. We're arguing about the scenario where this person has 2 attackers and 1 mule because obviously, they need at least 2 attackers to join two separate parties for runs. In 5 man each person has 1 attacker and 1 mule. For this hypothetical person, they can effectively do either one 3 man or two 5 man runs because they have 2 attackers and the sign mule can be reused. Changing the limit from 10 to 5 doesn't change anything for this hypothetical person, they are only really limited by the number of attackers they have and whether they have the 'right' sign. Doing 2 extra runs means double the time but for less than double the prize. That's why it really doesn't make sense for any hardcore player to spend this much time to do extra runs, especially when you yourself admitted cwk is dry af. Maybe the reason those friends of yours that did 4 runs for months quit was because they finally realized the time commitment wasn't worth it, like so many other people on this forum are trying to point out. Also, by making the pq more accessible to casual players, the prices of cwk goods would drop, making it even LESS worthwhile for hardcore minmax players to run 4-6 pqs/day so I really don't see what the problem is. Instead of speaking on behalf of other people who don't even do 4 runs/day anymore, why don't you speak about your own experience? I brought up my experience of running with large parties just to have it cancelled last minute because we we're missing an archer/pirate. That is why I want the entry requirements to be less specific.
This was more in response to your earlier post about how worth it it is running extra runs and getting more boxes, after this change. No. In practice it is often a single person can enter a 5 man run without mules, and claim only 1x bon, while those with mules are rewarded with extra mons. That is exactly what I said in my previous post if you read. And what if it makes it less worthwhile for even casual players to run as well, because too many players run it? Isn't this the problem of ageing of the community that is constantly being discussed by others but you seem to not recognize as a potential problem? CWK got to this stage where it isn't worthwhile running due to it being overrun in the first place. My personal experience is, I run smaller efficient 3 man parties, and while one of my friend has 1 attacker 2 mules (1 NL main 1 bucc, BS), and another has 1 attacker 1 mule (1 SE 1 BS), I provide every other remaining role to sign and enter, and I duo client attack and solo bottom, because I have a dark and a hero. This change would benefit me, since I wouldn't have to log on all my alts to sign and I would certainly consider running more. But at the same time I believe running more has lasting ageing impacts on the already very strained mapleroyals community. It makes players everywhere stronger, and eventually you will have less and less things to accomplish, leading to a potential player base problem. That being said, I am in favor of CWK perhaps having a change of rewards, to make it more viable again along with this change if implemented. Though it may sound like I am against this change, I am not, I am simply including possible consequences as mentioned much earlier in this thread, and some of the things you say are just straight up wrong/or have bad logic which makes me want to reply.
I just feel like saying cwkpq isnt profitable sounds like a very entitled mindset. If you run 4 man you get 25m split already just by selling Mons. Of course, the 2apples needed and occasional heartstoppers do add up but you still profit nonetheless. Now to address the signs. Sure, its given that you have to pay an apple for a sign but this is mulestory so even if you do end up paying for 1 sign per person you still break even. Now what about bonus stage? Sure the drop rate isnt fantastic but then again, its a bonus stage. If you get something, its an added incentive. The whole point of going cwk is for the Mon and juicy exp you get from the bosses. I dont MON much so I cant really give a qualified comment on the bonus stage but for the past 10 runs of bonus i been to I've gotten 2 bfcs, 2 goggles and other stuff like chairs etc. I could be lucky but we have to consider that these items will drop in price if the server has a sudden influx of casual players doing these runs many more times a week. To answer the argument on "letting casual players progress faster", I think this is a redundant issue as clean bfcs and goggles are already at 10m for a 3wa bfc and like 40-50m for a clean goggles assuming not godly stat. And these take forever to sell in the fm atm. What happens if the number of these drops increase due to the increase in runs? It wouldnt be fair to say "oh i didnt get any good drop in my past x runs so its safe to say nobody will in their next x runs" Since there will be a definite surge in cwk runs should this change be implemented, we have to assume that the number of drops will increase substantially although the term substantially can be subjective/defined differently. Afterall, most people go bossing for the thrill of it and the exp gains. Any monetary profit is an added incentive albeit some people do go for profit. So it wouldnt be exactly correct to say players wont run cwk because its not profitable. Correct me if Im wrong but players go cwk to get a chance of looting a good roll MoN. If you already got a good MoN and feel that you are entitled to pure profit for such runs, thats your prerogative but you cannot assume other players will not do more cwkpq runs a week because you feel like you wont. I honestly dont run MoN that often myself so i dont think i would be considered selfish by stating these economic issues. I just feel that this change, should it be implemented, could lead to a short term increase in quality of life for players but a long term decline in the population's health. Players will progress at a quicker rate and find it boring and thus move on to quit. Do note that should a change like this be implemented, it will likely be set in stone and that means the server will always have 5 man CWKPQ. Who would be able to confirm whether such a change would affect the economy or not? The issue is that there is a potential for it and it is not without reason. One might say that this change is arbitrary and wont affect it to that extent. But lets ask ourselves, would we be satisfied with just this quality of life change? We would probably ask for more in the future like "lets make HT not require elixer" or other QOL updates that would make life easier for us. All these changes will add up that would eventually lead to the result of players over-achieving and finding no sense of accomplishment anymore. This happened to main servers like MSEA and GMS but the only difference is that those servers constantly increase the ceiling, aka harder bosses or nerfs to certain classes etc. (Remember what happened when the GMs nerfed NLs?) This server is unlikely to do so as its a nostalgic server for OG players and even if we do get updates, it will be few and far between and the requirements to do such content would not be too far off. So ultimately what Im trying to say is, is the convenience of not buying signs really worth it in the long run? The potential damage to the economy and player base for a mere 5-10minutes of convenience. If I were to vote, I would say no.
25m - 17m (8.5m/apple x 2) - 2m (4ook stoppers *5) = 6m profit my man. If you are a NL you spend more to recharge stars. Well yeah fine it is a profit, but 2-3 hrs for 10-15m profit (lower if you are NL) does not so appealing to me. Am I "entitled" to look for profit? I think I should be when I am spending my 4 apples and 2-3 hrs of time when I can be in HT or Auf for much better exp and chance of profit. Think of the opportunity cost. You worried that more old player base with many mules will rush and do more cwk x more times a day and lower the price of the cwk bonus drops. Now you say the purpose of the pq is getting the MoN? If the real purpose of the pq was the MoN, old players with good MoNs will not do cwk anyway. What is keeping the endgame gears expensive is the Chaos Scroll and sheer luck of passing the CS. Clean lowly bfc or goggles may get cheaper, but you need to CS that shit to make it endgame gear. These end-game gears will not going to be any cheaper unless CS prices drop, and new players cannot and will not progress that fast as you think. My point of mentioning the low drop rate in bon stage was not to rant at shitty RNG I had in my runs. It was to tell you that there is no reason for old players to go do cwk all day every day for bon profits when they can Auf or HT or even sell leech for much better chance of profit. If the new, fresh newbies go cwk more to the point where their bon drops kill the economy as you say, I will be actually very surprised and glad that royals had THAT MANY hidden newbies behind the scene. ps. There is only ONE chair that drops in bon and it is UNTRADEABLE. Worthless point to make in bon profit issues. I am sorry to say that this line just made me lose more credibility on you about this matter.
yep i agree just 2 sides of a coin. i dont need credibility on this im just stating my opinion on the potential issues that could arise. what you mentioned are points on why the potential issues wont happen but since none of us can predict the future its just a question of what seems more possible i guess
Didn't think there would be so much argument over this proposed change but I voted in support of a change to 5-man requirement for the following reasons: - I have not heard of a single CWK party on this server that actually has 10 individual players, and I think this change would overall reduce the volume of unnecessary muling - "Buying" fill-in slots does not encourage party play, nor does it encourage socialising amongst players. This arbitrary requirement is akin to making Zakum parties, for instance, have a minimum of 10 people sign up. What is the point? - The economy for MoN and CWK bonus rewards have already crashed since its original inception in 2018, despite a nerf in bonus drop rate not long after this part of the game was introduced - It is entirely feasible to reduce bonus drop rate again if there are concerns with over-supply of rare / endgame items - For 'end game' players who are capable of running multiple times a day, there are much more profitable methods of making more meso gain/hr than grinding this PQ - The EXP from CWK bosses diminish as attackers approach >17x and becomes minimal once they reach >18x I think along with this change, it's reasonable to make a 'sign' count as a run for all players who signed up if the run were to successfully go ahead, even if the player who signed doesn't enter.
Rarely can a person with ZERO signs enter cwk as an attacker. The only exception is if you run with your guild or your friend group, but even then, that person could easily be cut out for a higher split for everyone else. You're delusional if you think most casual players have the opportunity to join runs with ZERO signs when every smega recruiting cwk is 'pm att + mule'. Players that currently run often aren't considered casual players, they might not be hardcore minmax players but playing everyday is already considered very invested in the game. This change doesn't affect daily players as much as it helps casuals who play maybe once or twice a week for nostalgia and for the community. For these people, you think that the game would be ageing too fast? I have friends that have been around 130-140s for months now. Soon, I won't even be able to dojo with these friends since I outleved them during the time they spent barely logging on. These are the type of people you are currently excluding from cwk runs. Daily players will eventually find a clique or they'll make all the mules needed because they're dedicated enough to the game at this point. In terms of ageing that is up to the player themselves. If I wanted to power level to 200 I could ht twice a day and auf twice a day and that would quickly speed up my progression to 200. If the player doesn't want to progress as quickly they can take it slow and play for enjoyment, doing things like lpq/kpq/opq/etc. What you're suggesting won't actually slow down progression because any player who wants to progress will find ways to progress. First they make a hs mule. Then a cr mule. They'll consider SE/SI/SED too if they need it. The only thing that realistically slows down the progression of the server is the server's own exp/drop rate (3.2x/2x) or reducing the time players spend playing.
Wrong. And it is pretty common to run with friends and guilds also. And you seem to misunderstand the concept of ageing as well. Ageing does not refer to a single player whos progression is too fast. It is far more long term, try and research concepts like an ageing society, because I am sure you are not familiar. You don't seem to get that I said countless times I am not for or against this change, I even said it benefitted me. I am simply arguing your bad points and logic because there are so many, and somehow I find myself being dragged into this argument consistently because of this point you don't seem to get.
Wrong. I started this server a month ago and I main a bowmaster. This is the only character I have on this server because I dont enjoy muling. Yet, I have joined several MoN runs whenever a smega appears to recruit people without having any signs or mules. And these smegas never once mentioned "pm mules/signs" I am very committed to this game, but im not a committed MoN runner. I only go when theres an available slot. I spend hours playing every day and even spent real life money to get RP. However, I refuse to make mules because I enjoy playing one character and one character alone. I dont have any guildmates to do MoN with or any bl in particular. I just wait for smegas that recruit for MoN and I join. Every single time I pm and tell them I have no mules I still get accepted anyway and in fact, almost everyone who joined do not have mules or signs. Literally all the public runs I been to are like 8-10men and and we all either get 1 Mon each or get to go to the bonus stage. I play daily but I dont intend to ever make mules as you said committed players would.
To be fair, the only reason why this discussion is still going on is because the people advocating this change on this thread have really bad points or they have decent points but dont see/understand the potential repercussions people like us have pointed out. The Gms are unlikely to implement this change because they understand that the long term detriments outweigh the short term increase in QoL for MoN runners.
I see it was the opposite way the only point i see people arguing for is economy based nothing based on fact and where the market is You are not going to have a buyer for every run and even then you only break even prices on apples maybe down atm but in 2 months they will be back to 10m People bring up the point that this will lead people running cwk up to 6times aday i just strong doubts people would decide to run cwk for 6hours+ when you have HT and Auf I would say its true that if more people run cwk if would mean more of these items in the market thats a simple fact but lets break down the items Clean goggles and bfc dont have much value on there own since the price of these items are tied to Chaos scrolls it wont lead to more endgame items because cs prices dont change Elemental wand7 i think more of these on the market wouldnt be a back thing when they are 4-5x the cost of elemental wand5 because of availability Tao of harmony/sight/shadows wont lead to more furys since the bottle neck is still black crystals All the other items i can think of are already considered to have little to no value i cant see how even if cwk end up getting ran 3x more often it would end up changing up much of anything i just found this funny
your replies are all hilarious because you just dont seem to understand a simple issue. Is it that hard to understand economics? 1) Just because you dont think it will happen does not mean it wont happen. 2) Are you seriously talking about goggles and bfcs having to be chaos-ed to be considered end game gear when literally you guys used "helping casual players to progress faster" as one of your arguments to advocate this change? 3) You are a funny dude I have never seen anyone completely miss all points of the arguments, and constantly comes back to say the same thing which has been disproved 30 replies ago, and able to do it with such pride. How do you even do it without batting an eyelid no one knows. You are a phenomenal creature.
I never once say anything about helping new/casuals progress faster if you read the post i opened this mess of a thread with it was a simple quality of life fix since 10man cwk isnt a thing and its never been a thing even 3 years ago when cwk droped bishop was being muled and now its just 3-5 attackers a quality of life fix that helps people form groups new and old players by removing we need to have 2 of each class when half dont even enter the pq No one is going to use unscrolled gear so your 2nd point about goggles and bfcs needing to be scroll to be considered is pointless If you think anything is disproven you are out of your mind i have not seen anything that a good reason not to make this change everything you say and all the points you make shows your inexperience with cwk and the market on royals something understandable since you new here but when you say everything with such confidence
ok so few people have outright said this would be bad for the economy most just rised conserns that is may have impacts all the things i outlined in my post The process of the feedback forums to have the community come to together and have a discussion about balancing changes etc But you just come out and say its proven? because you say so just because you want a argument?
Remember when I said chill out, and he was all like. "No, you chill out. I'm chill. You're the not chill one. Hurdurdur" Lol now look what got here. Man needs a snickers
dont think anyone who prides his replies on helping casual players but turns around and calls them "filthy casuals" or "smooth brains" have any right to speak about attitude lmao.
Im sure all of us would welcome this change if it was not at the expense of the potential downturn of the economy or the plausibility of the server's population declining. We just feel that the potential issues far outweighs the benefit of convenience that you have mentioned. Nobody is here to pick a fight or start an argument. Im sure no one would want to have to spend onyx apples to buy signs if they could choose not to. However, it is imperative for players, both casual and committed ones to work on making the server live as long as possible so we all enjoy the nostalgic server together. Im sure you of all people, who cares this much about the game to the extent of posting on forums in hopes of enhancing the convenience of CWK runners would appreciate this. Like I said, your suggestion is a welcomed one but only if there is a solution that does not involve the expense of the economy or the player base. If you can come up with that, I'd be the first one to advocate your suggestion and bump it up until the GMs implement it. Until then, I just cant see how this change would be good for the server as a whole.
