I'm not sure how feasible my suggestion is, but I'll throw it out there anyway. Currently mages don't scale at all based on their weapons attack speed. If it were possible to allow "cast times" (EXCLUDING Genesis / Meteor / Blizzard) to scale with the weapons attack speed, it could allow for level 163 staffs to be more appealing (fast attack speed), and for wands to be more farm-oriented (slow attack speed / wouldn't effect mage ults). This could allow all mages to output more DPS in general. Angel Ray for single target DPS on Bishop, then Chain Lightning / Paralyze could attack faster w/a staff, as well as SI. Could open up the game to low luk mages, give more incentive to try for 165 luk stat while being lukless. Would give staffs more purpose in general, while also only being able to be used at level 163 for the high level option (elemental staffs).
We already have this timer at El Nath mine, the coolie zombie map. I think this is a wonderful idea to implement on end game farming maps if we get one.
This effect (if considered) should be in Doom, not any other commonly maxed skills, and should only work if Doom is maxed The boss effect (obv no snail morph) could be like 10% chance to ignore 10% of weapon and magic defense for 10 seconds. If cast on a boss in range, costs triple mp (doom icon appears over head). Boss will 1/1 and attack/summon more often during this effect. It shouldn't be easily cast on a boss either, it should be like, 25-75% chance to debuff, not 90%. And the effects should also come at a % too, and cost more mp, it would be too op and easy to just cast doom/bless/angel ray and get a bonus attack advantage. Also it making the boss harder by castings/summoning more often would be fair exchange for increased dpm from the party
Doom is currently the current god tier skill for bishop that outshines its entire kit in Neo Tokyo content. There is no need to a buff or change this particular skill. Meanwhile your suggestion might be alittle too much for our little vanilla server limitation to program. —- Skills lowering boss total defense Threaten MP -25; has a 50% chance to reduce enemy ATT and DEF by 20% for 80 seconds and enemy Accuracy by 20% for 8 seconds. technically this skill that belongs in paladin’s kit does exists in this server but it has been bugged/not working for the longest time.
I wasn't necessarily suggesting it, just saying, giving bs an overall party dpm boost via bless or angel ray is op on it's own, and getting ahead of that consideration
My opinion, but I can’t see how archmages should be rebalanced into a bossing class. Its literally saying how Nightlord should have a AoE map clearing skill that allows them to leech/farm efficiently. They should only shine well in what their class is designed for, crowd/mob clearing & control, which is not in any part of our end game attraction. Improving these maps/mobs should be the love that this class deserves. Meanwhile i didn’t play in GMS, i never seen mages actively playing with a paladin in boss runs as a metagame around v62~v83.
We only did it like 2 times and it was not that great or efficient, we just needed HTPs lol. Was also like when I was 13 so, my memory of it is foggy. I don't feel like it's changing that identity of mage AOE gods too much. Just making the bossing skills somewhat relevant is a nice touch. Meanwhile, if you wanted to boss as a archmages, AOE would be most efficient. And other content where you are useless would now be doable. Nowhere near as good as other classes. But doable. I don't want the overall identity of these class to be completely changed. Using your reference as an example: Nightlord has avenger, which at least is a usefull skill for certain situations. While mages only use teleport + blizzard for all content. Since other skills are complete trash. Mages shouldn't be now known as a bossing class. Just a class with the ability to possibly boss, using a different strategy.
That's not actually what they were designed to do, most private servers just alter them to be that way. Ultis had long cooldowns, that's how they were designed/intended, that's why they also have their demon skills, which hit 6 targets. We're just giving all power to their ultis, ignoring their other skills and potential, and going "how do we fix this slave monster we intentionally created?" Arch mages were not intended to be farmers, that is not what the core identity of the class was intended to be, the long ulti cooldown spells that out, that's just what we use them as now. Its not at all the same as saying giving nl an aoe skill. NL are top bossers, nobody suggesting mages should have NL bossability, just that their current ability to boss should be improved, while still staying low tier. Every thread about this says the same, improve their 1v1 for bossing, but don't make them op. Its not an all or nothing situation, balance can be struck, and that's all people are asking for. How much money a "farmer/leecher" mage doesn't really matter, potentially any class can make the same or way more with luck in drops/scrolling/gach. Farm/leech is merely a stable way Bossing arches also opens the market up to their alternate ele wands, poison/lightning. It wouldn't be as simple as going from duku to ht, it would still require proper bossing wands, different from their leech wands
This is a pre big bang server, not a server with 45 classes with miracle cubes. Archmages are intended to be a mob clearing class, that is their design lets not stray from that. Big bang happened simply to counter the meta and look what happen to the official server's player base and complains due to that? If you are suggesting we move towards big bang, its not a good move. Only if you tried archmage main sed in horntail before the 1/1 adjustments. using infinity and tanking tail like nothing. Sedding more efficiently then shadowers, look at them now sigh. Sacrifices for autoban is needed right? Well that aside, in horntail they currently at most are good as subpar dps dealing 280000 damage/s if hitting 6 parts with crash buff, losing dps over time when each part dies. without a chance for the mobs to fly upwards to lower other DPS class damage. Not falling off the rope all the time, its just that players never actually funded one and swiss cheese its way through or played around its potential at all. I'd duo attack with a NL in a typical NL duo/trio party alongside with a washed + geared F/P that does elemental advantage to Head C & Right arm over NL + BM anyday, in horntail that is. Dark wyverns are fire weak too btw. @Incentv if this answers your question. Yes it matters, these are outrageous class that its skill set should never be tweaked too much. Also, what you're saying is casino is also a good income, with luck in a jackpot machine, potentially anyone can make more. Just that picking up a job is merely a stable way.
Let us take a look at our upcoming content. Pink bean & equipment crafting. Mostly reverse anyway Currently ToT drop rate is pathetic, Yet will this will be your end game fate for high level archmages? Take a look at these items required to craft a reverse weapon. Players who enjoyed these content before would know how bad is it to hunt piece of time, pretty similar to hunting that 0.01% ETC in Neo Tokyo. Monster Crystals? What are those ? New material need to craft Reverse Equipments? according to hiddenstreet Advanced Monster Crystal 2 (x20) - A Monster Crystal that was formed by combining the droppings of monsters on level 111 ~ 120. Advanced Monster Crystal 3 (x14) - A Monster Crystal that was formed by combining the droppings of monsters on level 121 ~ 130. Piece of Time (x45) Archmages approx requirement to 1hit. Memory Lane 2 : 869 Memory Lane 4 :1041 RoR 2 : 967 (F/P) RoR 4 : 1119 (F/P) OB2 : 1283 (I/L) OB4 : 1395 (I/L) Farming in this map require players to fit 4 mages in 1 map to do a efficient clear unlike Ulu1 or any other fantastic maps that just fit 2 char that players chooses to farm in. If our staff team is concern about mage gears price sinking / unwanted due to low level mage being superior, don't worry. This content will make these gears heavily contested soon enough. These is also an example of how updating the game will shift your ungeared low level mage meta into a high demand of high leveled mages, godly scrolled mage gears, be it 163 staffs or 130 wands. --- So what happen to our buddies using laptops to enjoy mapleroyals? To those who doesn't enjoy multiclient mage farming? Are we going to adjust ToT to fit them? its a obvious no. Leave that map to our creative players that enjoys multiclienting & are crazy enough to make 4 of the same element mages and gear it up 4times to farm there. Staff & game balancers with access to tespia should know best how pathetic the drops there is. What i'm suggesting once again would be a competitive option for single mage players. Neo Tokyo is a beautiful map & content, but who really goes to that map? Revisit that map, rebalance the items that the crafting NPC provides. A popular request, MTK wa+1, if asking for more is too rough or "too broken", this itself will make silver coin demand skyrocket. Main income to be in silver coins & high level drops for Advance Monster Crystal 3, instead of generating mesos left and right by NPC-ing gears. Make your players exchange materials & equips for mesos between one another. Edit : Please if this idea is interesting for you guys. make it so that both I/L and F/P will work like petris, imagine ppl crying I/L is superior LOL. --- Whos gonna farm these crystals? These 10 of each mask for Pink Bean prequests? Yup your multiclienters. A balance between multimage farming & TC single decked mage farming. Is it possible? I wonder. Btw those who want to merch, its a no brainer to buy out these cheap luk crystals & diamonds before this becomes a thing. Oh for god sake don't add godly system into item crafting or timeless equipment in PB drop. Let players craft these item with precision using advanced crystals & diamonds or buy these clean weapons and level it 3/5 times aiming for perfect weapon atk only to start ws10%
I'm not suggesting we do anything to be like big bang at all, I'm saying v62 original 4th job mages skills didn't intend for them to be farmers or leechers, private servers made them that way And no, I absolutely do not want arch mages filling up all the ToT maps to "farm for me", I want to be a able to do it myself, or whatever class I or anyone chooses to play, and I'm sure other people would like to earn them themselves too and not wait for a map cause a mage is hogging it. I don't want the maker skill either, the ToT weapons can be made without it
Sorry to say but, at least from the official server i'm familiar with which is MSEA during v62~v83 era. They arn't bossers as well. Being able to do everything efficiently isn't good game balancing. NL should never shine in selling skele leech, and if they do. oh boy. There is 20 beautiful channels in our server, i'm sure you can find a map out of the many maps in out of the 20 channels in ToT to grind with your class of choice, be it hero, bowmaster or NL. but i'll highly recommend archmages or bishops if you do own any. This is off topic, but it will stray too far from nostalgia. Simply because "you don't want", the server shouldn't or even consider stray from its original design. But do elaborate. Please no super custom content. --- Well assuming that we buff fire/ice demon and this class does becomes a DPS. In which ranking of the DPS chart would you recommend them to be designed to fit? (Once again, they can do everything other then bossing that other class can't) --- This chart is abit old (Pre Bucc/Shad/Pally buff) but might be very relevant to our discussion.
Again it's not making mages good at everything. It's just making it so that can actually have the option to boss as well. Blocking a class from certain content is not good game design imo. Paladins in GMS where so bad, the only content I could do was grind ToT or beg for people to bring me to bosses out of pitty or they're my friends. But Royals allowed paladins to be viable, in both bossing and farming. I would argue most neotokyo is optimum with paladin. So with that in mind, I think that allowing certain changes to help mages be a viable option to do content they otherwise could not enjoy, is an overall healthy move for the server. It expands the gameplay of the server and class diversity. If a player loves being a mage, he/she should not be forced to play a certain way due to class restrictions or metas. That's not truely balanced. And I'm pretty sure that the server population majority, and GMs, want to move away from the HPwash/Leech gameplay. Which may leave mages completely dry of content other than farming equips/items or party grinding. Moving to something where mages have options is healthier for the class
I just updated my above comment with a dps chart and do share with us your idea DPS rankings, on how high it should be in bossing. example ; Paladin and archmage single target dps should be 1:1 example ; By buffing chain lightning to hit constantly 3 targets in horntail to be on par with Drk crusher while zerking (~170k / hit 830ms) Do share with me how much fundings should a mage have to be able to dish out these damage that would make them playable as bossers. Incase you missed what i shared above. Its not impossible to outdps other classes if you actually put funds & willing to swiss cheese / apple in them btw Spoiler Bishop whiting wings & arms test. Spoiler: If you need some numbers and recommend a buff in attack speed Magic Claw/Energy Bolt/Holy Arrow/Big Bang/Angel Ray/Fire Arrow/Poison Breath/Fire Demon/Ice Demon/Paralyze/Thunder Bolt/Cold Beam Booster2: 720ms (-90ms) Booster1: 750ms (-60ms) Regular: 810ms Heal Regular: 600ms Chain Lightning Booster2: 690ms (-90ms) Booster1: 750ms (-30ms) Regular: 780ms Shining Ray/Ice Strike Booster2: 930ms (-120ms) Booster1: 990ms (-60ms) Regular: 1050ms Poison Mist Booster2: 1320ms (-180ms) Booster1: 1410ms (-90ms) Regular: 1500ms Elemental Composition [FP/IL] Booster2: 810ms (-90ms) Booster1: 870ms (-30ms) Regular: 900ms Explosion Booster2: Fast (4): 1500ms (-120ms) Fast (5): 1560ms (-60ms) Normal (6): 1620ms Slow (7): 1680ms (+60ms) Slow (8): 1710ms (+90ms) Booster1: Fast (4): 1620ms (-120ms) Fast (5): 1680ms (-60ms) Normal (6): 1740ms Slow (7): 1770ms (+30ms) Slow (8): 1830ms (+90ms) Regular: Fast (4): 1710ms (-90ms) Fast (5): 1770ms (-30ms) Normal (6): 1800ms Slow (7): 1860ms (+60ms) Slow (8): 1920ms (+120ms) Genesis Regular: 2700ms If you are recommending a number that is below all the other classes. This is what will result in your suggestions. You will still have to beg your friends to bring you to bosses out of pity, oh and of course, HP washing your archmages.
Appealing to nostalgia in a server where skills and functions and roles are very different, is not a good faith argument. We are talking about this server only, we know what it wants and doesn't want. There's no need to appeal to any others However, some aspects, such as ones we have literally changed here, are not set in stone and the "nostalgia" defense doesn't mean they are unexaminable or immune to scrutiny and improvement. This server itself can't in good faith say it's a nostalgia server with so many fundamental changes, and there's only problems if they aren't examined or relooked at to make them work for a living, evolving server. Things have to change or be reexamined especially if they are becoming problematic. We don't actually need farmers or leechers, we don't need classes to farm or leech either, lazy people just really like it and that churns the economy, it doesn't mean a class can't enjoy bossing better and it shouldn't mean we have to wait to find a map of we want to do our own thing, I think those are just as bad arguments as saying it's nostalgia, because they aren't nostalgic, they are just this servers meta
I'm sorry I'm not quite understanding what you're asking me. But from I'm getting here, mages might already be pretty strong in some bosses in the current game. It's just not tested or known enough. @DickDann lol why you just tell them about your new strat, now they're gonna nerf that too! But I agree. Nerfing farming is toxic and doesn't fix anything. Let legit players play the game and stop hating on it.
In short, what dps ranking do you think a archmage single target bossing skill should rank in? Perhaps, not stronger then a corsair, but better then a buccaneer? So after the damage buff they won’t be. Fyi marksman is getting this treatment right now, and simply accepted due to their SE buffs. Only in horntail & zakum arms that is. —- If you have some numbers to back up your suggestion would be greatly appreciated as well.
well, since AoE on mage is so strong. I think they should be lower-tier 1v1 DPS, below most of the classes. but better than they are now. I haven't done any testing yet, all theory and math. but I know some people who are trying to do some testing.
Now lets just say you put them slightly below Marksman which is the lowest 1v1 dps class like you suggested. I personally still don’t see how this class will be accepted into boss runs, when the paladin’s side are already on the verge of crying until the recent update. Their 1v1 is still bad, but hey at least they bring crash buff now yknow? Maybe even ‘threaten’ in the future! What exciting party buff does AM have to provide? Will they get accepted into Auf/CWK (single target boss) as attackers? They will still be frowned upon. No elemental advantage most of the time in horntail/cwk/zak/krex, auf dispel and nukes 1hitting the archmage instantly. Low supply of sswiss cheese unlike onyx apple. To sum things up, my opinion and my speculation after single damage buff is made. is still nope.
If a few of the suggested changes are made, I think they would be. Auf bosses are mostly weak to lightning, so I/L can be good. And in CwK, Mage Aoe, DoT, and Demons/Summons could be very strong. There are also some suggested party buffs or changes to current skills to make them party buffs, like infinity i think. can't remember who said it, I'm sure it was @Cooler In the case of PB, I think there is going to be some tweaks to how the boss run goes? i heard some chat about it. Meaning, lots of ads and maybe even minibosses during the run. Making mobbers/AoE viable.
