Toad Update -30% EXP

The 100% drop rate was wonderful. However, several issues come when it comes down to the -30% Exp.

First of all we have to understand the reason why people run Toad.

1. Try to get a good band.
2. Exp for everyone.

It’s basically the same as Krex’s. Some people come for the ring, some come for the XP.

Especially Toad is usually Trio-ed, only 1/3 of the players get to loot the headband, meaning that I would dare to say majority of the people don’t mind coming for toad because of the juicy Exp.

Hence it’s not reasonable to reduce the Exp given, resulting in Toad becoming literally a dead boss (other than if you want to get a headband) which means instead of encouraging more bossing, the GMs are essentially closing more options for levelling for the higher levels.

My proposal is to revert the Exp change and increase the Droprate to 80%. Or reduce the HP for Toad by 30% as well to balance out the Exp you reduced.

EDIT: I’ve noticed the reasoning for reducing EXP is to prevent high-level leeching. I think there are several problems with that.

First of all, Toad requires people who put in the effort to HP wash. It’s not easy to do so.

Secondly, it’s unfair to punish attackers who just wants to level because of people leeching their characters at such a boss.. I mean, I don’t get it. Can someone explain?

Thirdly, reducing the HP of Toad solves both problems then.

 

Before NT &LHC or even CWKPQ is released, sure.
Reducing the exp in patch 73.3 is perfectly reasonable.

It pretty much came down to a point where there are so many bosses + LHC that a player can rush to level 200 too easily.
What took a player approx 4-5months before can be achieved in 3 or even less now.

What makes toad still attractive would probably be selling the toad headband service or reloots, B>Headband svc 70mil daily btw.

With the reloot prospects so this boss isn’t completely phased out makes this a pretty good change.
Just my 2 cents.

 

Desperately wanted to get 16k hp on my nl so I can finally toad.
JUST when I reached my goal the exp got nerfed
Band isn't really worth it for any class besides shadower. I'm happy for them to see headband drop at 100%. However this feels more like an overall nerf instead of buff. Just my opinion

 

I don't know man, been here 3 years, none of my characters are level 200 yet and I'm quite active. It's simply because I can't be bothered to do daily grinding/bossing. 4-5 months sounds quite long to me to begin with, and that is for those that are more active than I am with daily bossing and all that stuff. It already feels incredibly slow to level after a certain threshold. I get way more active whenever an EXP event starts, because it's during those events the game feels rewarding in a fun way for me.

None of my characters need the headband, and leveling them is already slow. So, what's the point of going to Toad now?

 

we all knew toad exp was broken the nerf was needed

 

You need to realize that the majority of the server does not play this game with the same fervor as you and your friends. I know double digits worth of 200s and not a single one of them took less than a year to get there, usually longer. Most people are not maxing their runs every single reset like you claim, it would be a full time job. 30% more exp on a boss that is only available from 175 is trivial and is not shooting anybody to 200 at an alarming rate in the slightest.

The band is only attractive to thieves. Then you remember there are 7 other attacking classes that don't give a shit about it and have been farming godly Specs since 25 lvls earlier and are not even bothered with doing Toad, doubly so now that the exp is nerfed.

I'm so confused by this logic and reasoning behind this change. Selling band reloots lmfao? 70m barely covers apples, I could go sell VIP MoN for more and have a chance at way better rewards from the bonus room, including a strictly better eye accessory in Spectrum Goggles. For all the effort to do Toad (extremely high HP requirement for attacker+mules, prequest+mesos or JQ every run for every character, high level requirement at 175, and have to farm a mini boss etc for every run) it's now a pretty worthless boss unless you are a top 10% thief min maxing stats and want to CS the band for LUK, though good luck getting anybody else to go with you.

If Staff wants Toad to matter, you gotta make the band have DEX and be higher on average than Specs or a vast majority of the server just isn't gonna care about a boss with requirements like this for such little reward.

 

It's not at all unreasonable for an endgame boss to give around 8% imo. This is also when you duo, which takes longer than going in with a full party. But then again, I'm someone who prefers fun and rewarding gameplay over grinding my ass off.
Since, according to the update notes, one major factor of this reduction was because leeching and a lot of people seem to stand behind this, then why was it such a big deal that Ulu got nerfed before?
If you prefer the game to be slow and grindy, then go all in and nerf that again as well for all I care.

 

If this is the reason, should nerf HT exp too (or make HT once per day).
toad exp was same like trio/quad HT exp.
and took like same minutes to kill.

 

Nownow, as i commented, it was just my opinion on things, no need to be so aggressive.

“I know double digits worth of 200s and not a single one of them took less than a year to get there.”
Yet its entirely possible for a player who works on his dailies to reach lvl200 in less then 4months (i’ve seen too, too many) and lets just say we do add more bosses into the game.
Having more mid game bosses and more content is inevitable for the server to continue forward.

Eventually we will reach a point where a player can reach lvl200 in half the days/reset where it used to require.

This exp balancing is bound to happen eventually is what i’m sharing, and nuking everything down at one is not the solution, but rebalancing them progressively.

Spoiler: You might not want to read this

I apologise beforehand for typing this.
This isn’t a normal player’s gameplay and shouldn’t even be considered especially when balancing.
Yes there are super active players. Heavy users who play 4hours+ a day.

Don’t quote this and just take this with a grain of salt aite?

“it's now a pretty worthless boss unless you are a top 10% thief min maxing stats and want to CS the band for LUK, though good luck getting anybody else to go with you.”

Toad is a solo/duo boss. To the top 10%, these players will never have a problem getting a solo run done.
Toad is indeed one of the godly ones. Very decent exp for you to leech your 2 spare attackers. Have you ever seen players solo HT just to leech your shad + bs + bm + paladin to lvl200 not for books/mesos?

What you are investing is time, EXP/Mesos are currencies, which one do you prefer?

Yep, and toad is also one of the most amazing exp farming options to be able to power level all your side characters.
Aaaaand 5-10K NX!
Aaaand Elewand opportunities! (This prob sell alot more with bishop back in horntail)

Yet, its straightforward, no JQ required.
Without even the effort needed like HT, with mechanics even easier than shao, its indeed alittle tad broken.

At least for this part.
These are no longer viable as of 73.3.
Such, little? adjustments just destroyed, nuked.
This end game “OP” meta. Which is long needed imo.

I don’t mind if we revive this, to make it even more broken tbh,
more exp and 100% headband? Woohoo.

70mil is just a ballpark price i’d pay since a run is approx 30min. Its simply my demand price, not selling price.
Players selling these headband can probably easily milk these end game players while they are farming on the side with 150mil, i’d prob still buy it especially 10min before reset. Its a free market right?

“Selling band reloots lmfao? 70m barely covers apples, I could go sell VIP MoN for more and have a chance at way better rewards from the bonus room”
Same thing can be said for 5-6man Horntail, i could participate in 2 sets of APQ and have better mesos/h after averaging out 30 days/60runs of commitment.
Same time required for both including the elixir prequests.

Another example? Selling krex ring lmao. 40m-50m barely covers apples too.

I too am confused why is the economy so bad.

-
To sum things up. Dailies exp rebalancing will happen eventually, so players would have competitive options of choices on which they want to participate in.
Players who are willing to invest more time into the game shouldn’t be able to fly to lvl200 and still have that difficulty.
But hey, if you guys want to revert the exp, or buff the headband with dex. I’m all for it.

 

Sure, or they could just implement a anti-leech system where you don't get EXP if you don't actively do anything and you're not within a certain level difference from the other party members instead of making it slower for those that goes to these bosses legitimately without power leeching. Other servers are already doing this. Adding more anti-leech options would also increase the already super grindy gameplay most people here seem to love anyway.

 

And its time for another feedback thread!

Can you share the amount and which kind of attack potions you guys used, the time you took to kill each of these bosses and average out the exp/min on your 199 character?

It might be easier to convince the community whether old toad’s exp was broken or not.
If anything is broken, shao is lol
assuming your toad duo is 40min on full apples & shao is 10min on stoppers.

 

For me, exp is no longer a major consideration for me. It's too easy to level by simply doing shao and krex. Even more so with LHC included. I rather there be a chance for more bands to drop (1~3) than revert the exp.

It takes 31 billion exp to reach 200 from level 145. i.e. 310 days of 100m exp (shao + some other boss should be sufficient?)

In any case, I'm sure there will be others who would consider this change detrimental (if you play only once a week maybe?).

Out of topic, but it seems like there will always be backlash from any sort of reduction or removal of game mechanics. Archmage nerf and alchemist nerf are the only things I can remember off the top of my head that didn't meet much backlash? Rather interesting...

 

I guess it boils down to what kind of player you are.

If you are someone going for all bosses daily, then maybe it's "too easy" to level. I am, or at least have been, very active in game, but not to the point of going to every boss and PQ on a daily basis. Whenever I go to a boss and get like, 3%, all I feel is how I can't be bothered anymore.

Let me make it clear how much I despise original maple nowadays. Leveling every minute, no. That's not fun either. That's too easy.
But playing daily and getting a few tiny % at best is also not fun, and I don't want to go to every single boss daily. That feels more like a job for me rather than fun gameplay. I don't have the energy or care to do that.

In your example there, 145-200 in 310 days, that's absurd for me. There's no wonder any of my characters have yet to reach 200.

To put it shortly

You get good exp and it's easy and fast to level maybe, IF you are one of those people investing hours upon hours daily, but not everyone is like that. For many other people it's more of a chore than anything. It feels like pre big bang maple, which I dislike in terms of gameplay balancing equally as much as modern maple.

 

Toad trio exp was ~100m before this patch and required 3 175+ lvl washed players, they had to use 2-3 apples + stoppers depending on class and range. With 12-16k hits u need a pot slightly better than elixir. Now its ~70m + 100% chance of getting an eye accessory that is useful for thieves only (thieves that would choose this headband over goggles with dex).

On the other hand we have krex. This tree is usually killed by players once they hit lvl 135, hitting for ~3k (before this patch kek) with their mules staying safe below them. The risk of death is close to none. Duo krex exp is ~50m and takes 25-35min, can be even gizered. In the end u are rewarded with a best in slot ring for every class.

Personally i felt like toad exp was too good since if ur washed, all u have to do is hold attack button and reposition by pressing right arrow few times. Then i realized its basically the same as krex, but its way easier to get ppl for krex and u can get best in slot ring without the feeling that u can die any moment. We have a lot of options to get ez exp now, 2x duo krex + duo shao + lhc can give u 300m exp in 2hrs. I used to do krex, shao, toad and bga in 2hrs and that was ~350m exp if u add trio zak thats like ~410m exp in 2,5hr which means 4days and i get from 199 to 200. All in all i dont feel like current exp given by toad, pots being used to kill it and all the trouble to find ppl is fair when u compare toad to krex for example.

 

I specifically went to toad for EXP. This really upsets me but alright, I'll give it a try and see how it goes

 

powerLEECHlvling- was and still is the issue
not many had use of the headband as much the exp but it nice to have next to allready "poor" drop table
the person that brought HS/samurai drop takes the nx-headband anyway and you punish the rest of the team gets -30% EXP
which encourages more mules/less attackers in future runs

i don't think is fair to take multiclient attackers with buff mules as merit and place "balance" banaids - nerfs on the exp/rewards that just punish evryone else
(shao,HT,BG, exp nerf soonTM ?)

why not change the boss exp/drop distribution instead ? something similar to LHC and PQ's ?

 

Krex is not only done because of the exp, people go there for the ring, also no washing requirement, no jump quest required to be done everytime you go there, accessible (I still need to watch a guide video when going toad) safe spots for mules and you can easily find a party for this.

Shao needs you to be washed and has a super low timer, meaning you have to finish it in time. This is a level 150 boss and at that level you either go trio or find a godly attacker to carry you, because most times i tried to shao duo at that level I completely failed to do even with both members on apples, you can't punish casual players because there are rich people with a godly range or high level that can carry so you can duo at level 150 while most players needs to go on trio/wait to get stronger to go duo.

You can't make this kind of decisions just because some people are power leveling and playing the game as if this was another job for them, if it is that much of a problem just limit these content to 1 client and change the exp distribution so people won't leech, but right now you are only encouraging people to mule this more than before, also you already had to be like 30 minutes + trying to find members + 40-60 minutes of running depending on your party members to go toad since as pointed above, the headband is just for super end game thieves. Right now I probly won't even bother to go toad for less exp, a headband that i don't need (and probly will not have the chance to loot even if I needed since I dont bring mules) and wasting more time/resources than just going krex/shao and LHC.

I don't have a list of "to-do" bosses when I log in, and toad was one of these bosses (like body guard) where you spend a lot of time trying to set a party just to get some decent exp at 18x every few days when you felt like, right now i can see it becoming another S>headband/leech place because going on a party will not worth the effort for the rewards given.

 

Also, I don't see the problem with people leveling to 200 in 3 months like if they have the time/resources to do so, but if I wanted to have a higher difficulty I would probly join a 2x server instead of asking for a lower rate in here, I joined this server back then because I wanted to play the old maplestory and this had the best rates for the life i have right now which isn't the same I had when I was a kid. Nerfing things because you're assuming all of us go and duo everything everyday to power level just hurt casuals who wants to have rewarding content to do the few time we are able to play.

 

prevent high-level leeching (X)
punish non-thief attackers (O)
exp/min for toad is close to Bodyguard before the nerf
Bodyguard even drops tradeable shogun earring without hp washing requirement (for ranged) and pre-quest