Class/Skill Improved MM Feedback Thread!

@leodexe I think MM has plenty of tools and holistic buffs now to supplement the requested strafe buff, and that strafe itself is probably perfectly fine now as is.

MMB gives 100% mastery and an extra +5 att, arrows are +10 att, and SE significantly increases strafe's damage, don't just look at the raw numbers. 4 lines is fine with all this considered. Plus MM got an avoid buff from Blind, which helps their DPM as I said it would, and takes pressure off their skill combos, as well as helps parties quite a bit

In the OP I suggested that phoenix get a fire DOT to give BM some more oomph and supplemental dmg, and even phoenix's DOT to possibly hit through cancel, as well as various buffs to concentrate including:

• +avoid boost during concentrate
• undispellable--which they listened to
• increase DEX instead of ATT, like +50 dex, so you can still use any att potion. Or a DEX boost based on your level, so perhaps at 200 it becomes +50, etc (values tbd)
• increase your MP consumption, instead of reduce, as it currently does.
• The CD is fine, it makes your concentration state more tactical and deliberate, and the increased MP consumption (1.5x-2x?) to all skills (including SA) during makes it a bit more draining/challenging, but worth it.
• If anything, the avoid buff during concentrate is probably the most sorely needed. Stance/shifter is unnecessary--straight avoid is the exact same as shifter, and avoid is better than stance. Another possibility is simply reducing KB distance during con, or ignoring KB over 1 damage, scaling to some # based on your natural (unwashed) HP at your level (say at level 170 you have 8k HP (IDK lol) and that formulates to 1.6k dmg threshold that if you take damage below that, you're not KB.
• Anyway I think these phoenix/concentrate tweaks would put BMs in a very good place (along with their new hamstring and attack arrow buffs!) without much effort or change to them

I really don't think MM need concentrate, MM toolkit is perfect IMO (unless somebody takes my advanced mortal blow idea seriously...), and I think if the team considered my BM suggestions, they would be in a perfect place as well.

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Anyway, really curious about a possible MM shao solo with Pierce now?

 

do you think mm should be in direct competition with their sister class(in single target dpm)? in terms of dpm mm are still severely behind if you saw that krex 2nd eye solo... it was a bit pitiful to see mm getting gapped that hard. And in terms of utility they might be close now with hamstring on auf and mobile bosses. I think mm still have a couple of unique advantages but idk what do u think Mr Cooler

 

I addressed this issue in another server, it seems that Admin-senpai noticed this and added it to today's patch as per quoted in the changelog:

Spoiler: SKILL CHANGES

• Weapon Reflect now only deals half damage against Bowmaster's Hurricane

I haven't tried myself it yet, so I can't say if halving damage reduction is enough, but at least for bosses like Dunas who can deal up to 14k on a single reflect instance, I think 50% damage reduction on BM's isn't enough on bosses who randomly trigger DR there is no way to react within a reasonable timeframe to stop hurricaning.

 

I personally have always been fine with MM being behind BM due to their slower, more deliberate/tactical style, I just wanted a few of their skills to work a bit better (pierce mainly, snipe hitting thru w.cancel again, and some tweaks to existing skills. I always pushed for blind but never thought it would be buffed for bosses, and even suggested it only work for the MM and not the party, to downplay it. I tried to offer lots of holistic changes all over the toolkit to slowly build up MM dpm instead of just strafe buffs, and that's what we got, and I'm very happy).

I am a tiny tiny bit worried that the blind avoid buff will put MM over the edge possibly because of the DPM increase from taking less hits/getting KB less, and the party buff, however it's quite a late skill for most builds (most players want to max frostprey or the new and improved pierce first, but I would still recommend Blind asap for bossers), but the very end levels of MM are very rough according to end game players (my MM is parked at 167), however and MM rotate more skills than BM, and still attack slower,

But that said I still do want to see Concentrate get some avoid boost while it's in effect, possibly 70 or more? but the team will have to test all that, and I think both classes are in great spots atm


About damage reflect, I made a suggestion in this thread about a potential HW5 (or HW10 perk):

• HW above level 5 (6+), will alert you if a DR is about to be cast/being cast at a chance. Level 10 will proc alerts 100% of the time (something like a exclamation mark and screen shake, player side, within 1 second before DR is cast, or a chatlog alert when the animation starts). Often bosses that cast this have easy to miss or ignore cues and can be lost in attack animations, damage digits, or lag. Warning will cost MP. Just a fun extra perk idea.

Still warrants attentive play but it helps if you simply can't see the cue did to animations or spawns/etc

 

no need to be worried my friend, MM are still absolute trash in comparison to their BM equivalents

 

Hey guys so I’m 151 lvl now, what do you think if I should max piercing arrow first or blind? My daily routine now is casual bossing with friends, e.g Zak, Krex.

should I focus on maxing Blind first?

 

If youre planning to do LHC, Piercing arrow should come 1st...if you dont want to do that, and just boss, then Blind is a priority...

 

I think Marksman are shaping up to have some really unique roles or niches they can fulfill. Marksmen have the chance to excel at particular new bosses/content. I would be interested in seeing a few more small tweaks to continue to help stabilize a MM's DPM:

1. Snipe - Making it always hit 199,999 and making the range 10% longer.

There's a small bit of variation (190k-199k) from what I noticed. Making it always hit that exact number will slightly improve MM's DPM consistency especially from middle to late 4th job and will slightly help against it unfortunately being outpaced by Strafe, a 3rd job skill. Snipe always having slightly longer range than all other Xbow attacks makes sense thematically and is a nice QoL bonus to make sure Snipe hits more consistently.

2. Bow/Crossbow Booster - Increase duration at max level to 300 seconds.

Archers kind of have it rough in 2nd job and somewhat 3rd job. Having a longer duration Booster will be a nice QoL change for early game Bow users before they obtain Hurricane, and Marksmen will benefit a lot since they will be using Xbow Booster for the entirety of their career. Having Booster, Sharp Eyes, and (my next proposed change) Soul Arrow all at 300 seconds will make bossing more fluid for the class, which deserve something for the frustration of constantly getting knocked around and often being unable to shoot consistently.

3. Soul Arrow - Increase duration at max level to 300 seconds.

This is a stretch especially considering the incredible w.att bonus arrows got recently, but having Booster, Soul Arrow, and SE all on a macro and lasting 300 seconds would be a dream for archers. It will help make their gameplay more fluid and let them focus more on dishing out consistent dps.

 

im with you on the slight range increase. i mention it the OP, as well as my dreamy bbb alternate reality thread

(check it out for more juicy MM sauce. all archer classes in fact, as well as every other class too if anyone is interested)

i think the booster and SA durations are ok. i dont have a problem with staggered/imperfect buff durations, it keeps things attentive

 

precious, blindingly beautiful trash, my people

 

am here to update, I am currently 160 and I have maxed the Blind (chosen the bossing path).

I have to say it is really nice to see getting more misses from bosses!
last time it requires me to be super alert to boss like Shao and now it basically mis-hit me all the time. It feels so good.

Will be maxing PA next now but I can feel 160-170 is like a long way to go.

Cant HT as I do not have enough HP

 

keep the secret, GM's will read it and will nerf

 

How’s the damage calculated actually? I have PA currently at lv5, it says 400% dmg.
I full charge it and the damages are like 20k without crit, 30-40k crit

however for strafe, dmg per arrow is like 5-6k without crit and after crit is 18-20k.

Why is the crit multiplier difference?

 

ive heard that PA has an unique calculation on this version, but all the info i got is that the % showed on the skill is the base dmg, and then gets a certain % increse depending on the number of monster it hitted, but this is a bit unrelated to your question, Crit dmg is not a multiplier, is a flat dmg adition, of 100% extra dmg if no SE and 140% extra dmg with SE, meaning that the lower the % base on the skill the more impactfull crits will be, in your case, a non crit strafe is 125% dmg and a crit strafe will be either 225% with no SE or 265% with SE(more than twice) meanwhile PA being 400% will be 500 to 525% dmg(barely a 1/4 more dmg) thats why you can notice it better on strafe than on PA....

 

Not sure if this was mentioned before, but being able to pot while charging Piercing Arrow would be a nice QoL buff since MM are pretty squishy. I understand leaving it as is though with the philosophy of "hard commitment"

 

i would be ok either way on this. curious what staff think

 

I was looking to make a Marksman, coming from making a Paladin before who uses Ice Charge
With a White Knight/Paladin and other 3rd jobs that use an ice attack, the target basically gets frozen for a long time.

However! Looking at the technique Blizzard (and I'm not sure of Frostprey ) it says in there that the target only freezes for 3 seconds?

When looking at a long range job like Outlaw/Corsair, their ice attack is basically everything Blizzard is but better.

Is there any way to make Marksman ice theme be more prominent like the other classes? Because here it feels like their short freeze frames is an out-of-date handicap meant for long range classes... which got completed upgraded for Pirates on release with how gimmicky it simply was for Marksmen.

 

feelings on strafe becoming 3 line with max MMB (perhaps with a slightly higher strafe %, or crit%)?
three lines would be more stable damage over time, just slightly faster from slightly shorter animation, save a bit of arrows over time and be a bit more characteristic of marksmen, more accurate, efficient, deadlier strafe volleys.

would give MM a small, stabilizing boost over time, without changing much. perhaps a slightly higher MP cost to strafe. seems more appropriate than adding more lines to strafe.

blizzard is a really fast cast skill with good range, it stays effective as long as you use it, most people drop it after 1 point in frostprey. frostprey's freeze is passive which is even better, but you can't lean on it to always go where you want it unless you're more mindful of your crowd control, which is easy to get good at.

with db, pkb, blizzard, fp, pierce, puppet, snipe and blind, the need to freeze lowers quite a bit, and when you need or want it, blizzard fires off quickly for a sure freeze. snipe is probably the best skill for split groups. snipe the stray mob behind you while you push, pierce or frostprey freezes them.

i personally don't think snipers/MM even need the ice element, just extra avoidability and maybe a stronger mortal blow in 3rd, and a ele neutral bird in fourth that just stuns, which is no different technically than freeze, and would also give their 4th job summon neutral damage coverage for all bosses

 

visually downgrading from 4 to 3 lines can seem like a regression even if it would be technically better and Snipe already covers that “precise shots” theme. I’m more interested in seeing What happens if damage cap is removed and now Snipe gets reworked. What should be lowered is the endlag of Snipe and Piercing Arrow to make the single target and multi target less clunky.

Blizzard is a great skill to kill low level trash mobs when you’re doing the HP quest for example since it has better vertical reach and speed than Pierce and it is good for Sharp clones. Increasing the duration of freeze to 5 seconds would be a nice quality of life buff for Shao and other PQ bosses that are susceptible to freeze.

 

strafe is MM main attack, so if it has small efficiency buffs, that is better no matter what it seems like. imo its the better route than adding more att, more lines, etc, that most people clamor for.
snipe is its own thing and will always have its many uses, insta kill, weapon cancel bypass, timed cd (can't spam, must be fired with attentiveness and anticipation to not waste it/maximize it).
i personally don't see snipe needing any reason to break cap atm with all the tools MM bring together as a class. the best suggestion i still believe for snipe is to give it a short auto target effect after a snipe hits a boss, so all your strafe arrows then autotarget the boss for q small duration and not mobs. this gives you more dpm, and gives snipe a reason to stay in rotation at all levels, not just early on or during cancels.
snipe doing more than cap also makes gear redundant, unless snipe becomes a large % based attack instead of always do 199k, which i think kinda ruins the charm of its current function