It depends if you're the type of player to watch movies while bossing, the type of player that types in chat while bossing or the type that holds down one button and only stares at their char for 30 min-1hr. Personally, I'm the type that likes to chat with friends or watch a movie so I've been close to death many times and typed 'VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV' into chat like an idiot. I don't think its fair to expect shad mains to pay more attention to royals just because we have higher avoid or smoke, since at the end of the day we're playing to relax and enjoy ourselves. Staring blankly at my screen, not watching a show and not typing to my friends just so I don't accidentally die in a boss run and ruin it for my friends does not sound enjoyable. I get that shads have their perks but don't all classes have their perks? And last I checked 1/1 isn't actually dangerous for any class EXCEPT shad and maybe mages because everyone has autopot and can use PE but when we get hit with 1/1, and it forces us to be stuck in dark sight and unable to pot, we possibly die in: pap, zak, shao, ht, the boss, dunas v1, nibergan, and nameless. Plus, don't forget an unwashed or barely-washed shad can also easily die when they get dispelled at: pap, ht, verga, dunas v1, dunas v2 and auf. Together these lists probably include all the bosses on server, so yea, if you boss at all and you're the type that likes to actually have fun chatting with friends or casually chill and watch a show in the background, remember that literally everything can kill you. Yes, you can survive with an active bishop, but I've also bossed many many times without an active bishop because 1) my friend group doesn't include a bishop main, 2) no one in my friend group has a hp-washed bishop and 3) my own bishop is not washed. Also, I thought the point of this nerf was to discourage muling? Does it make sense that the solution to being stuck in ds and not being able to pot is to hp wash and mule bish to survive? I get that the other solution is to 'pay attention' but I don't think it's fair to say I'm not paying attention just because I'm doing what literally everyone else does while bossing. All in all it's not impossible but I'd recommend you mule bish just for res, especially when you're bossing with friends and don't wanna be a burden. That's my solution to it at least.
We should add a new poll to see how people deal with seduce in ht now. I have yet to go to ht without a dedicated seduce target (mule), be it a shadower or not, this just proves the original point of the change has been made irrelevant. It simply makes the class less enjoyable for those who main them. All this change does is to promote additional reliance on teammates and let's face it due to human nature, might let you down. It happens, I've forgotten to recast magic guard, bishop dcing, accidently pressing the rock and leaving the map, all these leading to making life more difficult for our poor seduce target. Spoiler from personal experience, using a shad sedmule is still doable, this change simply screws over shad mains more.
I recently started playing my shad again. This won’t be a long winded post, but i’m a bit bummed at some of the responses so far (trying to justify the changes). I have played maple since the beginning (back when it first came out), and since the beginning thieves have been known for their high avoid. We somehow avoided that blatant nerf (thank god) but got hit with this quickly implemented change (not a bug by any means whatsoever). I think there have been plenty of great suggestions throughout this thread including: -Allowing pots while in DS. -Removing the need for DS to be used with assaninate. -Some easier method for getting out of DS. I literally had the hardest time surviving zak on my shad (haven’t washed yet). I kept getting stunned and 1/1’d in DS. I play on my laptop (guess I need to grab a mouse now according to those who think we should just right click on the icon… -_-) and sometimes have higher ping due to my hotspot. I literally had a split second if not less to remove ds, pot, and make sure I wasn’t getting knocked into the boss/hit by mobs/objects at the same time. I prefer repositioning my bm or other classes to this shit show anyday. At least other classes can survive 1/1….. PLEASE discuss a change soon. I don’t see why allowing pots to be used while in DS can’t be implemented/trialed to see how it goes. I don’t see too many downsides with this. Maybe make it so pets dont work in DS and it has to be a manual pot? This would still help eliminate muling shads as sed mules if that’s what you’re after. -Bacon and every other not 100% washed shad with great clicking reflexes.
I didn't play for quite some time but I think you can also cancel DS by using normal attack (might be easier than right clicking on the icon). Nonetheless this change is still an issue disimproving the QoL of every shadower main.
Late reply, but I couldn't have made an informed reply earlier because I hadn't advanced to 4th job yet. The problem with nerfing Meso Guard is that Shadowers go from the class that is least affected by 1/1 attacks to the class that is most affected by 1/1 attacks. Why? Because they are the only class for whom there is always a small chance that autopot will not work due to Dark Sight being part of their main damage combo. If your skill macro is DS>bstep>assassinate and you happen to take knockback towards the start of the macro, guess what? You can't use Boomerang Step in midair, so the macro ends and you are stuck in Dark Sight and forced to manually cancel. Unless you also happen to be stunned at the same time, which means that you cannot manually cancel (not even right-clicking the buff icon works) so if a 1/1 hits you while you are stunned in Dark Sight, there is literally nothing you can do. Fighting Manon as a shad was fucking terrifying. Manon, of all things. How the fuck is evasion being mentioned as a reason for this nerf to be OK? The MG nerf was a problem because it introduces a tiny chance that shadowers will just die with zero counterplay. Sure, evasion makes this chance tinier, but over hours spent using DS>bstep>assassinate on bosses, it will still happen eventually, no matter how washed you are. No other class has to deal with this shit. Maplestory is not known for being a well-balanced game, but Meso Guard blocking damage from 1/1 was a rare example of a feature that WAS balanced. And Royals removed it.
Do maplestory players even use assassinate at bosses? I thought it was always just Bstep/savage blow/BoT + mesos explosion since assassinate needs to be charged in darksight for good damage.
The assassinate attack was revamped a long time ago - no more charging involved. Dark sight > Assassinate > Boomerang step (ping dependant macro), is our main single target dps attack.
Well I’m referring to maplestory. Since dark sight isn’t used in bosses so I don’t know what’s the balancing part bacon is referring to.
Alright, maybe I said Maplestory when I should have said MapleRoyals, but that's a nitpick and you know it. The state of Royals in which Assassinate is actually used at bosses and MG reduces the danger of 1/1 attacks is the balanced part I was referring to. Granted, it would be much better if we could just use potions in Dark Sight. That solves everything, actually. If we could use potions in Dark Sight then I won't even have any complaints about MG not blocking 1/1.
Being able to use pots while in darksight would infact solve pretty much all the issues brought up in this thread. I’d even suggest not having pets work in DS just to keep the difficulty level up there. Let us manual pot in darksight. Ezpz.
Tbh, now that assassinate deals full damage without need to charge, it would probably be better to allow assassinate to be casted without dark sight.
It has been 3 months since the Meso Guard change, and it seems like the consensus among the Shadower community is that the change didn't affect their survivability much as the seduce target, contrary to the conjectures in my original post. This is reinforced by @Comediante 's successful attempt at soloing Horntail, where he was able to survive 4 hours as the seduce target without an active bishop healing him. However, the community has brought up an issue that was unforeseen in my original post, that is Shadowers are now dying to "1/1" attacks, not because of their nerfed avoidability but rather, them being stuck in Dark Sight and lacking the ability to use potions in that state. This situation is not uncommon, given that their main attacking skill, Assassinate, requires the Shadower to be in the Dark Sight state to cast. To salvage the situation, they have to cancel Dark Sight by either 1) right-clicking the buff, or 2) casting a normal attack; where the latter is impossible if they are under seduction. The former also poses a hinderance, as players would have to be on standby with one hand on their mouse. The community provided few solutions to this issue, such as: 1) enabling the use of potions during dark sight, and 2) removing the requirement of being in the Dark Sight state to cast Assassinate. These are reasonable solutions, and they do not contest the intention of the change, nor do they give Shadowers a huge advantage over other classes (perhaps the duration of Assassinate can be increased to match the current time required to cast Dark Sight + Assassinate). However, the Staff has yet to comment on the feasibility or limitations of these suggestions, turning this feedback thread into a ranting venue for the community. It has been 3 months since some of these suggestions were brought up, don't the community deserve an update of ongoing discussions, if there's even any? Leaving the prefix of this thread empty, along with the lack of replies from the Staff, just makes it seem as though no one is really listening at all.
It was mentioned here that we are currently in the works of creating a solution, and since the time of the September Q&A Blog we have reached a solution; however, with our plates full at the moment, we haven't been able to dedicate the time required to implement those changes for us to test yet. In terms of removing darksight's use for assassinate, I would have to disagree with that solution because then we are touching the class identity of Shadowers as that is the only skill that requires you to be in darksight beforehand. The only situation I've struggled with personally is getting 1/1ed, stunned, and trapped in darksight which is a definite KO. Allowing players to pot while still being in darksight would remove that fear entirely. But in the same vein I am open to test out any other ideas we can get implemented.
My sincere apologies for the accusations. It was in a separate thread that I missed . Glad to know that discussions are ongoing!
Discussions are always ongoing on our end, it's just hard to keep track of every single feedback, and comment, especially when things exceed 5-6+ pages or derail unintentionally. Things will get missed even though it's not our intention when there's too many posts to keep track of. Which is also why we use the GM Blogs to try to umbrella everything in including responses to hot topic feedbacks.
I'd like to hear the argument against allowing players to pot in dark sight, if such an argument even exists. Dark sight is a 1st job skill that gives you complete immunity to most low-level monsters, and the inability to pot during dark sight is irrelevant because nothing is hitting you anyways. Low risk, high reward. In 4th job, bosses spam stuns and 1/1 attacks like there's no tomorrow, and they all go through dark sight. High risk, no reward. It was mentioned earlier in the thread that 1/1 attacks should be "threatening" but that turns out to be a crappy argument if you think about it for like 10 seconds. 1/1 is practically the only attack that Zakum3 uses, and every other class can just ignore it unless it hits them while they are casting a buff. It's not a threatening attack unless 1) you are the seduce target (already nerfed), 2) you are in dojo (which is a completely separate but still major issue), or 3) you are a class that regularly uses dark sight while fighting bosses. Which applies to exactly one class.
Just because what I said doesn't mean it will 100% happen, you do know everyone on Staff participates on voting, and I just simply gave my own personal input. My reasoning behind it was to completely remove what was echoed in this thread: getting stunned while being trapped into Darksight, and 1/1ed spells immediate death. Did I say I put much thought into the suggestion? Not really, I just said what was suggested would make more sense than completely removing Darksights usage for Assassinate since everybody has been passionate about disturbing the Class identities. As I also said, I am open to testing every option available once we are able to test them. Just because I told you my own opinion doesn't mean that's exactly what we will be doing.
I do agree with this and I would be uncomfortable with removing the dark sight requirement for assassinate. What bothers me is that we have a perfect solution for the major complaints raised in this thread, and the staff are going to put it to a vote, and some will vote for it and some may vote against it and I don't even know what the argument for voting against it is.
I'm starting to get a bit confused here by your replies lol I wanted to clear up the confusion by saying that I am all for it for allowing Shadowers to be able to pot in Darksight. I was never against it. It would eliminate the stunlock death scenario entirely, and it makes sense to just do that instead. I'm not exactly sure what the counter-argument is among others in Staff because I am agreeing with that statement as well so I cannot answer that question. Which is why I said I didn't really put much thought into it, because if the issue is being stunlocked into Darksight and being unable to pot; obviously the answer here would be to allow players to use pots during Darksight...? I didn't really think about any counter-arguments about it, or where it could be abused yet. When I said I am up for testing other solutions, I'm saying that I am open to other ideas and I will put the time into testing them to see which outcome would be the best option if there are any abuse elements to allowing Shadowers to pot while still being in Darksight (which at the moment I cannot think of any, but during Staff discussions everything gets brought up, maybe someone will have a counter-argument and I can see where they are coming from, who knows.) We can test a bunch of different solutions besides just simply allowing players to pot through Darksight, in case there are some abuse elements to allow players to pot while in Darksight. If others are not for this idea then I want to be open minded and help out wherever I can at answering some questions and brainstorming solutions.
