Class/Skill General Warrior Feedback (and "useless" skills)

Because a higher multiplier or ratio will just hit cap even easier/faster (1h and 2hbw have a higher max range potential, with 2h already being quite high by comparison, but lower bottom end), and ultimately that handicaps 2hbw because of its much slower speed and wild range, even 1hbw. 2h still can't compete w/ 1hbw (crushed skull) or 2h swords/axes, there has to be a gimmicky middle ground, or it's a useless weapon in the meta, which it currently is. Staff thinks it's fine because it's such a cheap weapon, but it's cheap because it's useless, so they're justifying doing nothing about it.
It's a very low priority issue, but I'd argue that giving players more customization and playstyles (like polearms and staffs being viable, or lowering the elemental wands drop rate, or lower the maple weapon droprates) does more in the long run. Plus they're all simple fixes that can be reverted or changed.

Another consideration is making 2hbw even a bit slower still, but adding the reverb damage naturally to all 2hbw (only if you knockback), and making reverb a bit higher than 10% or also reverb ignores all defense if threaten is active

 

Honestly now that I'm leveling my Hero and trying all the skills

One thing I noticed is... why does Enrage even have a 6 minute cooldown?

That cooldown should be removed altogether. Like seriously, is it really that game breaking compared to other classes and skills to have that cooldown?

 

Like with concentrate, I believe at the time both skills were great buffs, and the cooldown warranted some fairness, but also a way to not keep people in Uber states, like zerk is conditional, infinity, super trans, smoke, ultimates, snipe, etc

But then warrior elixirs came and wiped away rage and dragon's blood sp investment, and the apple meta wiped enrage and concentrate away.

I think if enrage boosted STR, concentrate boosted DEX, but kept the cooldowns (and were undispellable), they'd be considered useful skills and players would more likely find a place in their build for them, or situation.

If the suggestion to buff STR/DEX during enrage/con is considered, then they should be on cd, since the point is to make it stackable with potions but also similar to the original skill. Tons of suggestions in this thread for enrage though.

(For concentrate I think like, +40 DEX & Avoid, keeps or removes the MP reduction effect, or slightly increases MP cost, like 1.3x)

 

Berzerk ought to be 60 or 70% HP.

This way it doesn't funnel Drks into using reindeer milks to manage HP, they can use 40% potions as well. Allows them to facetank more bosses like how heroes and Paladins can

Furthermore, there are bosses that do way more damage than reasonably manageable if you're a Drk, so let's not gatekeep a Drk's dps just because a boss is too strong.

 

Well I think the monster magnet upgrade is amazing, never thought such an overlooked skill would get the treatment, specifically with auf as a consideration for this buff.

How is everyone loving it? It has very long range at max, I can see it being amazing for black wyvern spawns in HT, cwk bosses, shao, so you don't have to chase him down and get on the other side of him THEN rush him before he whips your mules, pulling leviathan or Griffey or Manon out of a corner after you checked the other one (I enjoy the lower res client, feels more pixely and og). Perfect glow-up that will also encourage general/grind use as well since it has bossing use, small cross-improvements like that go a long way, these are definitely the kind of tweaks I always try to encourage, ones that will lift the skill out of obsolescence but not make it OP, and still part of your personal toolkit.

Anywho, the other warriors skills on my radar for consideration would be:

• Shield Mastery
• Rage/dragon's blood/enrage
• Sacrifice
• Possibly lowering WKs MP regen
• Possibly threaten

Shield mastery for warriors is redundant because of their already high def gear. Unless shield mastery were to raise def quite a bit more, that would be worthwhile. However, I think it adding avoid when eq w/ a shield, or, new concept here, raising your KB threshold from 1 to say, 10% of your total HP, (so 30k would give you a 3k kb threshold, instead of 1 damage lol. Possibly a concept for another skill, such as stance, since drks would miss out, however I think that would be fine, and it would make 1h quite desirable.

For rage/db/enrage: I've said plenty on enrage, I think all of the ideas I and others have floated would be great. Any or any combo of them would be quite refreshing and welcome. For rage and db though, I think maybe a totally new angle on them could help, keeping their current effect, but also adding in a chance to do additional damage, or stun, or ignore defense, would keep them in use when not doing major bosses (when you will likely apple/enrage)

Sacrifice, I think deserves a reexamination to give drks flexibility in situations outside of mindless onslaught. As mentioned I think some of its glitches should be patched up so it's not so strictly dangerous and unpredictable to use (like when using sharp eyes), allowing it to hit through weapon cancel, perhaps at a %. The skill says it ignores all w.defense, I'm actually unsure if this applies, but it's a big perk if it does, perhaps ignoring all w.def for a short window after using it would make it a more common tool and help when the drk uses sac to control zerk HP, since that's also a big part of its intended identity, but sac ultimately gets washed away for other methods when trying to control/mitigate zerk status. If anything, if sac could be more beneficial for the risk+control aspect it offers, via a small buffed perk/function, I think this would really reward the class and skill
[edit: and perhaps not being affected by zerk multiplier, so it's easier to use in zerk, or a beholder effect (thataway it's farther down the line in terms of your build) that prevents you from ko'ing yourself with sac, or with sac if in zerk, etc etc)

MP recovery on WK, possibly cutting the sp needed in half, or doubling the effect at max. The sp demand in third job makes the WK class entirely linear, with no space to invest in shield mastery, if you want, since mp regen is extremely desirable for seduce

And yes threaten, I don't really think it's top priority at all, but I think it comes up so often because it has a lot of potential that hasn't attenuated properly yet. It scales terribly, and I think that's the biggest reason it so often gets mentioned. Lots of suggestions in the OP and elsewhere. I think the simplest scale would to have it slightly increase the multiplier effect vs. elements mobs/bosses are *resistant* to (in addition to it's -acc/-def), that way you don't have to wait until you have max holy to deal optimal damage (aka, if you threaten a mob, you at least get a slight elemental boost even if a mob is resistant to all elements). And this way some bosses/mobs can simply not have an ele weakness (despite elemetal classes, I think not all enemies strictly having ele weaknesses is a potentially good thing for some cases)

Anyway that's all off the top for now, very excited for the skill change updates ahead, very happy and humbled by the magnet buff

 

How else will I ruin my friends expensive attack potions then?

 

Use the cake map effect chat thing.

 

hehe I thought you didn't boss!? what y'all doin with apples out there? Leaf those stumps alone

 

bumping in the interest of hero.

hero's easiest angles to work with are from rage/enrage, and their combo/adv combo, and finishers.

removing weapon attack on both skills, and giving rage +15 str at max, and enrage +40 str at max (for example), makes both skills essentially new must-haves, instantly new meta. even if they aren't party skills, and even if, say, they somehow didn't even factor into % based totals like hw/echo. they would also probably be instant meta skills even if they both had -acc/-def disabilities, unless they were decently harsh, which would balance them from jumping straight into meta builds and overpowering hero's

obviously rage/enrage at this point simply can't boost w. att because there is an att potion economy with a life of its own, and will not go away.
so to stay true to inherent utility, ironmen and folks trying to save a few mil; keep the vanilla stats of rage enrage.

then add to them to give optional furthered meta utilities. the fairest addition to swirl into the vanilla soft-serve stats of rage to ignore up to 30 w.def, enrage would be a % chance to ignore 10-15% of monster defense, but this will also lower you defense% and accuracy% farther down than normal. -% prevents Achilles or decently dexed up ST warriors from bypassing the handicaps
enrage being a solo skill, perhaps a small chance (5-6%) to ignore weapon cancel.

another handicap besides -acc/-def could be lowering your current level of... wait for it... stance! sounds wild, but would be a great way to check enrage if it's buffed somehow. 70% stance for + 40 str enrage. interesting.

if you want to maybe do more damage, you have to risk taking more incoming damage, and landing the hit. any other arrangements make it instantly meta and op and pushes heroes too far ahead without limits. remember that vanilla 2nd job rage lowers defense, and i like this tradeoff, more skills should do this.



lots of suggestions about the finishers in the op and thread, but I'll throw in a few new ones:

• panic/coma can proc respective FA (if FA is active). so you could do a finishing final attack (perhaps after adv combo is unlocked)
• or if FA is active with adv combo, panic/coma can randomly proc at a lower% and lower multiplier dmg from panic/coma
• shout will ~slightly boost panic/coma if either is the next input
• panic/coma/shout have % to ignore w.cancel

and misc.

• guardian can proc a combo orb at a % if you have at least 1 orb up
• aca passively slightly increases rush speed+dmg, magnet charge+pull speed when 10 orbs are active. this way heros don't need a separate rush/magnet skill. I think this mobility bonus gives them a nice edge between the other two warriors
• flat buffs to both shield mastery skills (wk/sader)
• stance gets a buff during shout

all in all these are pretty zero-skill necessary buffs, and conditional perks (except for the shout suggestions), but hero is a very low-skill necessary class to play, so these chance-conditional perks are the way to go with them: if you want them, go for the build and hope. adding more skill/input changes their vibe and requires more internal work.
as for the shout suggestions, they would require a bit more attention/inputting to maximize. but boozting your syance with a shout could save you precious reclimbing time if youre attentive and can time.


lots of folks are asking for some kind of hero buff, but not suggesting anything. and most suggestions are flat buffs, which would push heroes too far ahead. like markspeople, i think tiny synergistic buffs suggested in this post and the op and thread have the kernel of potential that heroes are looking for, which won't push them farther ahead, but slightly more in balanced in terms of general gameplay and damage. maybe

 

Are you referring to a flat accuracy decrease? Because missing attacks entirely is a pretty big deal.

I'm not sure if 40 str is even better than 26 attack but for the sake of the post I'm going by the premise that it is far better. With that being said power stance failing is probably one of the biggest detriments to warriors' dps in this game. Since warriors are so close ranged getting knocked back (kb) loses us a lot of dps in boss fights where positioning is important such as Horntail.

Assuming FA works like it normally does (an entirely separate animation swing) This still wouldn't help Panic or Coma since one suffers from the damage cap and the other suffers from low damage. Both suffer from using all of your combo orbs, reducing dmg temporarily.

Panic/Coma uses combo orbs, sounds interesting if it didn't.

Shout at lv 30 on my hero with 12k buffed range with enrage and combo orbs fully charged can barely hit 5k dmg and the animation is slow. Shout is just a terrible skill

Rush/Magnet have different utilities when handling groups of monsters. Though I would suggest that monster magnet have a 100% chance to land and no charge up time as a buff for all warriors.

Shout's only use is for niche situations where you need to farm low level enemies or stun enemies right away such as the mobs in Dunas V2 and Ellin Forest Party Quest boars for example.

My own suggestion for buffing the class would be to just leave Hero as is and instead fix iframes on some bosses in NT, mainly Auf. This would help not only Heroes but the other warriors as well, and give them something to do after level 200 (a complaint I saw in another thread).

I noticed a lot of parties begging for crash for their HT runs. How about sharing this custom buff to all warriors instead of just leaving it exclusively for Paladins? Hero and DK are still power houses when it comes to multi targetting, but this server is HEAVILY focused on muling and bringing as little people as possible into their boss runs. So the best way to combat this is sadly homogenization. If all the warriors can bring crash then that opens up a spot in group bosses for warriors other than Paladins.

 

yes to the flat acc decrease for the ignore def tradeoff in that example. enrage is a "useless" forgone skill because of attack potions so you dont have to use this skill (and most don't), so if it had that drawback , it wouldn't matter unless you wanted the perks (1h/fast weapons could benefit)
the 40 str is referring to if rage/enrage instead buffed str, that way they *could* also stack with att potions. but as i said if this was the case, they would be instant meta, constantly in use skills. which is why it should have drawbacks (lowered acc/def/recovery/avoid/etc)

for the stance suggestion, in some bosses, the KB reduction isn't as much of an issue, and you aren't forced to use enrage, since att potions exist. but it would be cool if shout gave you a momentary stance buff, for those that watch attack clues

for me thats why incremental buffs to skills, not massive buffs work better, they can be flexible and situational instead of mandatory up at all times, and add depth to classes and skills. for enrage/finishers and these suggestions i think its fair to consider since its useless/ not needed and could help those that want to make the most of it. but also why most people see these small buffs as useless)

panic/coma FA is just a stray idea, there could be something there. FAs are faster than the last attack. there could be benefit to it if the finishers were watered down a bit in this instance. the way they exist now, they're obsolete sadly.

shout is great, it doesn't need to be stronger to be helpful but i was just trying to give it some relevancy defensively and offensively situationally, but either way, hero's tools are what they are, and are interesting, but could maybe have a little something that wouldn't be out of place. there's lots of other ideas in this thread and others, these were just a few new to get convos going again

panic causing darkness (as many believe it was supposed to. panic=darkness, panicking mob. coma=stun, knock the mob out temporarily with a heavy hit), with a shorter duration than blind, would be amazing.

the small mobility boosts from aca 10 orbs (rush/magnet) would also be great for the class and make them feel a bit more heroic, without damage.

rage/enrage lowering def has good synergy with shield mastery and guardian as well. the clues of what the class is are all right there, im just looking at it and asking 'was this the final form and function of the class or did nexon get a little adhd along the way'

like i dont think they thought the finishers would hit the damage cap, or if they did, see that as a problem, because of the ubiquity of att potions and creeped up power trends and perfect gear, so, the finisher concept for saders should be tinkered with imo


[edited for 600 typos]

 

thinking about damage reflect again.

if any class had a way to shatter reflect, my choices would be hero, mm, or the archmages .

MM's max snipe, or AM with max big bang so they have more utility in parties.

but hero's have armor crash. what if when using armor crash with maxed ACA & 10 orbs, it could also crash reflect? or, same set-up but with shout? that way you'd need to choose going shout vs AC.
max aca and 10 orbs means it wouldn't be as likely muled, you need to attack to build orbs and be at least 130. it could also have a cd, and cost much more mp, or all mp to round it out.

i guess it sounds a bit gimmicky but the set-up is right there, and gives hero's their much needed party flavor, albeit niche, vs the hyperbody, power crashing, berserking drks, crashing, hh'ing pallies.