General [Feedback Request] Multi-Channel Multi-Client Farming

Casual players want the most meso/exp/comfortable map to farm but don't want to put in the effort to camp/buy maps. There's a reason why they are popular in the first place. The player that puts in more effort to expedite their progress gets punished instead because of this. There are plenty of maps out there to farm, even though not at the same efficiency as the "best" map, they are still decently good. If you don't want to sweat for the "best" map, you most likely don't deserve it in the first place anyway. Most of the time even in the real world, people who put in more effort get better results.

A practical analogy will be something like a casual student who doesn't put in effort and wants to go into a top university. They complain about how the exams are too tough and they should simplify them. The governing body for the exams then comes in and suggest something like "Hey, maybe we should remove the GPA system since it is unhealthy and creates unnecessary stress for the students.". Not a surprising thing if you get a negative reaction from the people that worked harder than the casual students to expedite their learning curve.

 

If area bosses are also part of the discussion, I would have the following recommendation

- Remove map ownership when a player leaves the map through a portal (Doesn't include Tp Rocks, Return Scrolls, Mystic Door)

- Remove map ownership when a player changes channels

Or

- Remove map ownership when a character gains ownership of a new map

I think another change that could be made overall is to reduce the time it takes to lose map ownership. But I don't want to tread too much on to the multi channel farming as I don't have experience doing it nor do I have any negative experiences regarding it.

 

This thread just shows how the GMs do not know what is going on in this server right now.

Every hardcore players know that hackers and rwt-ers have been and still are affecting the game economy by 50% or even more.

Even with this fact, multiclient has been nerfed until now, and you are proposing further nerf on MC. Deflations caused by these will decrease the income of legitimate users, which will increase relative income/hr of cheaters and hackers.

If autoban is not coming anytime soon, or if we don't have a capability of making one, MC should actually be promoted to ensure that legitimate users earn more than hackers so that hackers lose their merit.

Or we need to buff some maps so legitimate users earn equivalent amount of mesos/hr. Buff Neo Tokyo maps and let warriors - most neglected class in boss runs atm - farm mesos there. This will solve MC problem, job balances, and provides alternative meso earning methods.

p.s. I know some people will say this is not "nostalgic" Maplestory, but 18 years ago, there were no travel tickets nor gacha. MC was not a thing in original MS, and job balance was shit too. That is why Royals has been tweaking a lot of things, and this is one of them.

I hate doing multiclients. It makes the me tired and makes the game boring. However, the server is so vulnerable to hackers, cheaters, and rwt-ers, and nerfing MC without clear restrictions on cheaters will only benefit them.

If you want to nerf MC now, nerf droprate in all maps to original shit rate and allow people to farm in neo tokyo where hackers cannot come.

ty for translation @AshPile

 

Exactly, thank you.
“You don’t need experience to have a opinion” thats a straight road on how you fuck things up as a game balancer w/o experience. Lets be honest, 2021 is a roller coaster of feedbacks & reverts due to poor changes. Results are the only thing players see.
Information @Josh mentioned in this thread is starting to make alot of sense that us players are actually feeling it firsthand.

Quoted from the post :
Firstly, a majority of the current server leadership has close to no clue about what's going on in the game itself. this also might already be obvious due to the numerous game changes that leave us scratching our heads and wondering what's going to hit us next. when the more experienced players in Staff voiced our thoughts, these members still continued to insist that they are right, despite hardly logging on and not understanding the server's situation/meta at all. worse still, when called out, they even go on to claim that they don't need to have experience to have an opinion. not just once or twice, too. yes, in a sense that might be true, but there's a distinct difference between being uninformed vs. ignorant insistence. because of this, and because those members outnumber the more well-established players, there's usually two outcomes for gameplay debates:

• uninformed changes being made, just because, or
• stagnant discussions with no proper outcome

This answer to this Q&A question is quite simple, but yet a entire feeback thread is needed, and causing players to have alot of unnecessary concerns.

Before staff plans to make any changes, or no changes, please at least get someone who is very knowledgeable in this field in the team and decide accordingly.

But hey, we all know the ending to this thread, there will not be a proper outcome, and neither side will be satisfied.

Hackers yes, at least there are some bans going onto them. On the other hand, before getting called for false accusations again, i think, RWTers literally right now have absolutely no restrictions, no manual bans, no reports replied, no GM private investigations, no nothing. Right?

Its already painful to continue gaming in this market, and what to top it off?
A thread with a possibility that we have to punish these legitmate players again for the casual community.
Oh come on..

I’ll put it straight up as well, even i do it on a super crazed basis, i dislike multiclienting.
Yet, without this, there is no chances for legitmate players to keep up with the market, against distributers + RWTers. Especially If u intend to setup the said restrictions to benefit them even further.

The hackers, RWTers, the “meme worthy, like farmer autoban”, and most importantly, the market needs to be fixed.
Seriously, bossing shouldn’t be unprofitable, but a main source of income. Selling low level leech is more profitable than HT. Wtf?
If we can have all that, i’ll be supportive of the changes.

Well, everything aside, its a special occasion.
Merry Christmas everyone, best wishes!

 

Hi. I think everything you said above aligns with how I feel about RWTers. However I think we should hold back on saying remarks like "giving an opinion without experience is a straight road to fuck things up".

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, whether they be a constructive or less-constructive one. Afterall, its up to the Staff/GMs to sieve out which they feel is the right way forward for the server.

I get it, you may have come across several remarks from people upon your time on this server which you regard as inexperienced and unproductive but its really just the opinion of someone else's personal experience. Its not going to set things in stone.

Why I am saying this is because such statements prevent new players from voicing out their opinions and I mean, 2 heads are better than 1. Why limit our options if we have more people thinking on how to better improve our server. If they say something everyone regards as "inexperienced", its unlikely that opinion is going to change things.

This is with regards to new players though. If you were referring to decision-makers (People who have power to actually change stuff on this server without a poll) then I definitely agree with you that experience matters. Theres only so much the community can do to clean up the mess. S̶o̶u̶l̶ ̶A̶r̶r̶o̶w̶


Also, I may have only been on this server for 9months+, but I definitely feel the effects of how RWT-ers/Vote-Abusers/Hackers are affecting the market. Im not going to touch on other areas because I basically live in the freemarket so that area is where I feel most affected on. How the fuck are the prices of scrolls going downhill like that? I used to be able to sell scrolls like Dagger 30% at 10m each easily. Now they are like 3-4m in several stores in the free market. Claw att 30% used to be at the same range as Wand Ma 30% at the 17m price range but they are now sold for 7m in the free market.

Can something be done soon? And by soon I mean like last month. Its not a healthy sign for the server to see the prices of items like that drop more than 50% of its original value 4-5months ago. I've heard laughable remarks like "only some stuff are affected by RWT-ers and vote-abusers, not everything is affected" but I decided to move on because I believe everyone is entitled to an opinion no matter how inexperienced they are.


We literally have players who have been on this game for years, even almost decades giving out free legitimate advice on how to not fuck up. Just Take It.
We are not asking for the sky and the moon. We are just asking for you to seek the community's opinions before acting. Its literally just double-checking your work thats all.

It does not undermine your authority. If anything, it just shows how dedicated you are to the server and its population.

Let me put this in a way everyone can understand since a lot of people ask me why do I only stay in the free market and not go bossing? Is it because I hate bossing?

The answer is simple: I do not make deals that do not guarantee profit.

And bossing on this server more often than not leads one to incur a loss. Imagine spending time and effort to do legitimate work and instead of getting paid, you have to pay to do it.
Thats the situation of bossing on Royals atm. You lose mesos doing it.

That being said, I still thank the people for constantly inviting me to runs. You guys are legends. Im sorry for always asking stuff like 'is there a buyer?' or 'loot available?'

Means a lot to me that you guys understand my merchant's mentality.

I hope the situation gets settled asap. Please.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year

 

I apologise if didn’t get my point across accurately, I’m definitely & only referring to the decision makers, does it make sense to you that the “uninformed” are the majority with power, balancing, dropping in the final votes & opinions that matters for royals’ end game content?
Perhaps you might want to read this thread made during december last year.

After looking back at it, it makes it pretty clear that why we’re going through the current effects, reverts due to community feedbacks & outlash in 2021

 

Ah okay I was not here last year so I did not come across that thread but yes if you were only referring to decision makers then I completely agree with you

 

only attackers should be able to hold maps.
the reverse is not competition. if a 77 priest, or any random amount of mules/alt/support camp out 1, or 20 ch "holding" pianus/bf, for example, with an attacker sweeping, what's the competition? you can get away with it because you dedicated time to mules?(not difficult or that time consuming or a
reason to justify their existence. just because you built a beautiful house on land you don't own doesn't mean you can live there)

it's not competitive or sporting if you hold ch with alts to hunt. your attacker should be liable for ksing them, even if its ksing yourself, since the attacker character doesn't hold that map.

first come is the best competitive method of the boss map situation, and ksing (even against yourself) is a good deterrent against multi ch campers to abuse the zero limits to this playstyle. (dedication shouldn't = entitlement, this is a game. lots of people obviously have nothing better to do, and they're the reason this thread is open and topic is trying to be scrutinized

otherwise, without some upper limit on mc (some limitations as opposed to no limitations), this will continue to be a problem

as for farming, once again, some limitations are better than none. i know some people seem to think that bc its holidays, people are on break, events etc that the topic is exaggerated. but if the server was simply more popular/populated, which it easily could be, and should be considered, everything in this thread would be exacerbated, and the discussion will continue.

yeah i get why the sweatiest feel most entitled and loud, but this is a game to be enjoyed. its not a job.
in fact people who treat and abuse this game like a job (rwt) are a big part of the problem

 

I think the "sweaty people" you're trying to scrutinize are agreeing with you that map ownership of boss maps could be tweaked, if you read the past page of comments and feedback.

And honestly, some people like to dedicate a lot of time to the game and that's where they derive some enjoyment - just because you think they're treating it like a job, doesn't mean that they aren't having a great time playing the game the way they want to play it.

 

I understand others have talked about boss maps, this is my input on it.

i understand others like to play in third gear as well. im not trying to cap that entirely (and i already know I'm in minority on my personal limiter), but im just opening the discussion on it instead of skirting the current limitless abuse/allowed gameplay.
also im not equivocating rwt and the sweatiest among you (but to anyone outside either group, normal players, it looks blurry)

 

Hey,

How about a solution that can benefit both parties - farmers and not farmers?

There are 2 options I can think of to sort this -

1. Give the problematic maps a timer of 1 hour daily (same as LHC) - This is the lest prefered

2. Make the maps instanced for each player - meaning that every player sees the map alone, similar to instanced dropped like LHC totems

The most problematic map i can think of is voodo/hoodo, so thus solution can be helpful for everyone

 

u seem to forget that some ppl do use those maps for grinding purposes? and they tend to be mages and some arent even 4th job e.g tot map 5 for all 3 colors, the elderwraith map tat spawns both hh n bf, himes

 

This server advertises itself as a nostalgic maplestory server that allows multi-clienting.

As harsh as this may sound, if you cant tolerate others doing it you arent playing the right server.

Its like signing up for a marathon and then complaining that its too long.

There is no unfairness in this regard because its unfair to everybody. The rules dont just apply to new players.

I usually favor the side of new players because why the fuck not who doesnt like new players joining the server. But in this case its illogical and absurd to call out people who spend time and effort to grind especially when this game is a MMORPG designed for grinding.

For the players bent on finding a map at voodoos, the early bird catches the worm. Try to get a map by putting in some effort and staying awake for hours to snipe one.

And dont even try telling me you have a job and want to destress with the singular hour you have everyday.

No one unwinds by farming stoppers.

 

i was specifically talking about bossing maps. the boss maps with elderwraiths are not as popular with newer or lower lvl players, and I've never had issues in them with sharing.

just because it says MC, doesn't mean it should be unlimited MC. just because the limit of how many clients you can juggle is being considered doesn't even necessarily mean it will effect most people, even the top 10-1%.

there is no number or figures even being swirled around, so there is no threat, and theres no threat in talking about it or considering it either. you know mc will stay. do you need more than 7 clients? 6? 6 is a full party, most solo with mules don't even swing full six.

and again, some people do like simple farming/grinding to unwind. its simple and you can listen to music or catch up on news or podcasts. don't assert how people play as an excuse to ignore input you dont like or agree with, its unrelated. even i understand its fun going ham in third gear with multiple chars in a boss room with multiple roles, i only disagree that this specific 2d platformer should never really necessitate an individual needing more than a full parties worth of alts running or holding limited amounts of maps for their self, which is the point the owner is trying to open up, but the community (extremely vocal 1%) refuses even entertaining the concept much less a discussion.
i just dont see why some regulation is better than unlimited clients in a limited map game, and i dont see why that's radical, especially if you want a bigger player base. you cant have both.

 

Saying there is no threat is awfully ignorant and... optimistic(?), as @Jooon has already listed the nerfs that have already taken place over the years, in the comments prior:

Spoiler: Nerfs to legitimate farmers

You really gotta chill on this villainization of and rhetoric against the "vocal 1%". First off, it's just players who choose to dedicate their time to a game they enjoy - most don't even consider themselves top 1% or that stupid elitist player/antagonist you and some others are trying to paint them out to be. Do you not see the pages of discussion on this thread alone of these so-called "1%" people "entertaining" the concept and having a discussion on what boundaries could be healthily set?

We can have a good discussion about different perspectives on MC or what have you, without making unnecessary and inaccurate claims.

 

In that case, let me throw the same question back at you. Is it supposed to mean limited multi-client then? Is this server also supposed to be limited in its nostalgia too? Nowhere on the server's advertisement does it say unlimited MC for sure, but I would sure as hell interpret it as unlimited MC any day over it having it interpreted as limited MC. There is nothing wrong with taking it as it is. If the server says A, we'll do A.

Let me remind you that this is a feedback thread. Thinking that there is no threat of talking about the server being limited in multi-clienting or considering it at all is a very dangerous mentality, more so if the thread was started by the owner of the server.
What do you mean by "you know mc will stay". Are you able to predict the future? Are you on the panel of Staffs/GMs? Are you saying with absolute certainty that MC will stay? If so then why the fuck are we all on this thread then? For laughs and giggles?

Also, dont even @ me for saying "No one unwinds by farming stoppers".
If they really destress and relax by farming stoppers they wouldnt care about efficiency and max profit gain. This would mean they wouldnt mind farming at less popular maps instead of the more popular ones at voodoos.

You cant say you want to spend your free time unwinding on a game to enjoy yourself whilst simultaneously looking for max profit gain. They are exclusive. You cant have the best of both worlds, or rather three worlds in fact, considering they dont want to spend the time nor effort to snipe a map.
You might as well ask for everything to be handed onto you on a silver platter. Would you like the CS/WS I get from gacha too? I'll save them for when you get online as I wouldnt want to waste that singular hour you have to unwind and farm stoppers everyday.

I would like to also clarify my position, that I also believe some sort of regulation is required for the server to maintain its health. However, regulation has to come hand in hand with common sense. After looking at your replies, all I can say is common sense isnt so common anymore.

 

all ive read is people saying hell no, to just the idea of possibly limiting mc. thats not even with any figures, just the idea.

not villainizing. but its certainly an upper echelon type (im using "1%" obviously colloquially, exsqueeze me) that do make a big butt ton of money by exploiting map ownership and limitless client farming. dont get hung up on that part of my post please

 

ok

 

Those "vocal 1%" is not just refusing because they are losing their own grounds. They are refusing because "the owner" is nerfing the shit out without any solutions to more fundamental problem, i.e. the cheaters.

I think it is "the owner"'s responsibility to provide secure game environment before nerfing anything, and looking at the FM and smegas in game right now, we, the "top vocal 1%" who tries our best to keep legitimate playstyle, do not feel secure and rewarded for playing in this server.

Legitimate players spent months, some even years, multiple hours a day playing the game, selling leech, creating mages for farming, attending events religiously to achieve whatever hp goals, wa gears or ranges on their characters. However, what we see is some weird newb who doesn't know shit about the game claiming he has achieved more than what I have achieved in only few months into the game. To add to this, "the owner" seems to not care much about the cheaters and keeps on nerfing what legitimate players can do.

Bottom line point, again, is this: nerf whatever you want to nerf AFTER cleaning up the cheaters and making the game environment cheater-free, or at least let us feel that there is something going on with making the server secure because right now, the server is flooded with cheaters.

I don't think there are any figures for people agreeing on nerfing MC as well. What is good about limiting MC other than "it is not right to do it because it is not fair"?

I can provide a list of hacker/rwt/vote abuse reports I have made so far in past months and rate of them reappearing in FM. Anyone with common sense can imagine what will happen if MC is nerfed and legitimate users cannot make mesos as they used to with those cheaters still around.