Well unfortunately Krexel is a punching bag boss hated by many and shouldnt really be linked to any class balancing
Completely agree yet Bishops have a strong place in the game, wanted in almost every boss run while arch mages have really no contribution to the game and it is really sad to realize it...
Threaten being useful would be nice, but it needs to be changed so pally crash mules don't just evolve into crash+threaten mules. A good change to promote actual pally play would be to turn the skill into a self buff like Hamstring Shot for archers. When used, it would give the paladin a self buff for a few minutes, and whenever they hit an enemy it has a X% chance to reduce enemy defense by Y% for Z seconds. Maybe a 10-30% chance to reduce enemy defense by 20-40% for 5/10/15 seconds, that way it would only ever provide a meaningful effect if the paladin was always there attacking the boss instead of AFK crashing. Something similar for crash would be nice but I don't think it's possible in Maple's outdated code without just completely stripping away crash until the next cast 40 seconds later, which wouldn't fix the problem with mules. I guess mules would need to be a higher level to be able to hit the enemy in the first place? Not really a fix. Haplo mentioned crash being a party buff with an X% chance to bypass weapon cancel, which is nice for Zak but would just end up being more of an annoyance at HT unless it was absurdly high like a 75% chance to bypass cancel. Helpful, yes, but still obnoxious. Also while we're at it fix hamstring to work on everything it's almost meaningless but it's a complete waste of skill points ATM. The way to fix trio duku meta is to put some dukus on the middle platforms to stun anyone who can't oneshot them. They'd also have to be made freeze immune, but I don't think the paladins and MMs of the world will care if you do that.
Bishops have a strong spot, yet, it's still pretty backwards that it's ideal to keep a Bishop as low a level as possible for better exp in Skele/Trio Duku. If you level your Bishop too high and wash, maybe it can be a niche attacker in HT to fill a warrior spot or for duos/trios, but other than that it's pretty useless. Another thing is, the price of Genesis 20 has gone from 800m+ from when I started to only 150m. Something seems messed up there like maybe people aren't making Bishops as much anymore or there are hackers.
thats because mulestory + broken meta with 3 "noob" mages slowly takes over and reshapes mapleroyals same goes for gene30 and all the gear for mages that went on downhill after duku mainstream hype (not the one commonly used for wash altough they got hit a bit aswell...) who is going to buy gene30/20 and risk expensive fails over funding 2+ noob mage for ulu1/duku... or other maps like you said is "best" to keep bishop low lvl and hp bloodwashed as hs mule instead of geting it high lvl and funded (noone takes bishop main and is forced to be HS mule anyway especially when duo or more clients attacking is raising over gear funds)
3noob mages says a lot, also mules matter A LOT more than range this meta which is kinda disappointing
I still support this thread very much! @yeepog do you think it is possible to uncap Paladins and make us all happy?
im personally way against 1h/2h bw getting speed increases, its a bad fix, there are better ways around the issue. also against increasing attack--bw already have a very wide low~high range. if any change is made, they should be more stable than swords to compensate their low speeds. increasing speed and or att increases how often you cap. and im sorry but removing cap is just a bad idea. staff should have been planning a solution about the cap and power creep years ago, its been an issue since before i got here, and i don't know what they expect to happen now since mw30 and timeless weapons are coming (and even if both don't arrive with pb, power creep/cap is still an issue right now) here's input for both issues from another thread. ^so that mostly applies to 2hbw, even though there are no 2hbw mains. 1h reverb could be 10%, 2h could be 15% or more, as well as cost more HP. otherwise, more creative ideas are needed, because att/speed won't help them, they'll just be swords with bad range. what's the point? cap being removed warrants lots of other overhauls: blast, snipe, buccs, hero's finishers, and if anything these classes would need to be slowed down after the new cap break power creep, which would disproportionately affect everyone. cap shouldn't be the issue--bosses can just have more def or damage reduction applied. or simply be more dangerous, or have more random healing (as well as ways to stop or prevent that healing), or immunity. as well as not strictly having vastly more hp than the last boss. releasing more eq to scroll to increase stats or attack, with more to come i assume, and not finding fundamental ways to make cap not be a limiter (such as increasing boss def but slightly lowering hp), or ways to pump the power creep breaks will just keep pushing the problem though, and I understand some people think it holds them back. but i think cap is a good thing, and it keeps ultra wealthy playing/mesosinking sins, instead of trying to turn a bunch of other classes on their heads just because they have too much money and time. i think we have the opportunity to make more progressive changes for a healthier meta than just pulling an Autobahn and saying there is no speed limit, and let the people with the most be able to even more quickly and efficiently overtake bosses and drops. but, that's just me
i have to say, i don't think its a coincidence that the skill examples you listed belong to classes that are in need of some buffs (except bucc i guess). i actually believe that removing dmg cap fixes some of the underpowered issues these classes faces, because if we wanna talk about scaling, the skills were presumably designed to scale according to their skill values without factoring dmg cap, so i don't see any reason why there is a dmg cap. if you think about it, it's pretty unfair to those classes to not be able to show their full dps potential just because their dmg skill is not spread across a few lines.
I think i might have worded it poorly, it should have been "so i don't see any reason why there should be a dmg cap". Yes i'm aware there is a client limitation, but since we now have a new dev that has proven that certain client limitation can be overcome, my intentions are to bring awareness once again to staff about dmg cap being detrimental to certain classes so hopefully this is something staff can look into again, hence why i bumped the thread only recently after almost a year of it being buried.
i see both sides of why to remove it. obviously splitting attacks into lines, or speeding some classes up (which is also something id rather not do) can be done instead of removing cap. the only problem is once cap is gone, its going to be hard to contain or roll that back, especially with buccs and paladins. how snipe would work w/o cap would also completely change the class. hh? lots of contingencies to consider before just getting rid of it, imo. i think the classes who have cap limitations are excellent classes with lots of other qualities and abilities that make up for them. ultimately i just worry about the power creep it could distend the meta with, and how other things would have to change around the cap removal instead of just making cap unlikely to hit for some classes and vs some bosses.
Still think the damage cap convo is a bit pointless unless its proven to be plausible of removing it. Until then, just focus on more pressing issues. If it is removable, a lot more needs to be done and just makes a domino effect of more changes. Sounds like a nightmare. Class balance isnt always about damage, and more intuitive or easier solutions can be done through content changes or updates, skill tweaks, skill bugs or how they work, etc.
I think its better to wait for confirmation from our new dev whether is it possible to remove / increase damage cap before jumping to the conclusion that this discussion is pointless. Well, if you can't see why the current damage cap sucks for players that want to gear or progress their paladins, then imagine what if the damage cap was 65k instead? i can assure you there wouldn't have anyone with finished auf helm or super OP gears because there's simply no point. This is what endgame paladins have to deal with, a brick wall once they reach a certain point, there's no more progression for them. You should know this since you main a paladin yourself so i'm abit surprised. Yes there are work arounds, i did suggest changing blast to a two line skill instead of one line, and i still standby my stance that paladins need HELP, and i mean real HELP, not just changes that makes people go "oh paladin is good for its party abilities but i wouldn't bother gearing it too much", but real changes that makes people go "i'm gonna main a paladin and be a beast".
Yea thats what i meant. I personally have seen others remove it on other clients. not sure if it can be here until devs try. I switched to 1h sword, hitting cap a lot isnt a problem now. Its more like a pleasant surprise. And i save a lot more on pots now with guardian. I totally get what you mean though, its not fair to compromise your damage and grind for crazy gear if you have a cap. I was asking to remove cap back in like 2018. But i just love the class so that doesnt stop me from enjoying it or grinding for better gear. I think the auf helm should have been completely reworked or not implemented at all. But thats another thread. I just currently see more cons than pros if cap is removed. For paladins it makes sense (except HH). But all of that would need to be actually tested with all the side effects before implementation.
