General Should banned players be given a second chance?

Yeah, I agree we should give them all a chance.
Instead of permeant banned, we should only give them 20 years ban so they can learn from their mistakes and can still play this game after jail time.

 

Probably not gonna happen because despite this being a kid friendly mushroom game private server, they are HARDCORE about punishments and practically take pride in it.

 

Maybe there should be a way to reclaim names of banned characters... I'm sure there's some great names out there that no one can have, because they've been banned.

Also might help catch people trying to come back after a perma ban lol.

 

For the amount of times a player has to read (or atleast be aware of) the ToS there should be no 2nd chances.
When makin an account you have to read the ToS, when leaving maple island you have to answer a quiz regarding ToS which will restart if you get a question wrong, even some RoyalTips are ToS oriented. Also in the voting page there is a "Please note: each household may only vote once per day.
If there is more than one player in your household, you need to be accepted on our Voting Whitelist before each of you is allowed a daily vote. For more information, read our voting rules"
Since banned players are going out of their way to break this rules that are spammed to us there should be no 2nd chances.
Playerbase is going back to its precovid numbers. If the playerbase is your concern I think we should focus on player acquisition then.

 

I feel that vote abusers in particular should be given a chance to come back. Even the major vote abusers.

The reason is because the once-per-household-per-day rule isn't universal across private servers. In fact, the alternative which is once-per-account-per-day is much more common. Someone who is coming over to Royals from another server may, at a glance, read the rules and yet not notice this crucial difference.

Not everyone is a native English speaker. Not everyone reads terms and conditions like a lawyer. When I imagine myself trying to join a foreign-language server only to get permanently banned, I think the feeling would really suck. If I'm not wrong, there isn't a warning that "hey, you're vote abusing, please check the rules and stop". Some people's first indication that anything is wrong comes in the form of the permanent ban. In my opinion, that's something that should be changed.

At the same time, vote abusers do cause damage to the system. Vote abusers increase the supply of NX, which causes inflation and other bad economy stuff. I acknowlege that but I think it's something that can be worked around.

Imagine if vote abusers can be unbanned, but they need to pay off an NX debt. The purpose is to remove the illegitimate NX from the market.

Here's how I imagine the system could work.

1) Allow vote abusers to play again, but remove all their NX and NX items. Also prevent them from entering the Cash Shop, and prevent them from gaining any NX from voting.

2) Implement an item (I'll call this item "NX Debt") in the Cash Shop that costs 8k NX and is tradeable between players.

3) The staff that banned the player assigns the banned player an NX debt based on the # of vote abuses made. E.g. the player abused 20 votes, so they have a debt of 20. The staff already know the # of abuses, since they differentiate between minor and major vote abuses.

4) The banned player must collect and submit NX Debt items equal to their staff-assigned debt. They must buy it from other players using mesos or other methods. The public nature of buying the debt item is intentional, and will be explained later.

4) When the player pays off all their debt, they can vote and use the Cash Shop again.

My expected outcomes of this system:

1) Illegitimate NX is removed from the economy.
2) Vote abusers can play again, subject to a penalty proportional to their crime.
3) Additional source of income for regular players to convert NX into mesos, other than APRs and Gacha.

Why the public buying is good:
1) Deterrence. The abuser has to buy the item from someone else. People will know they are vote abusers and previously banned, giving them a stigma.
2) Public education. If buying NX debt is a common source of income for a normal player to convert NX into mesos, it makes it much more likely for a normal player to understand what vote abuse is, and to realize if they are inadvertently breaking the rules as well.

That's my 2 cents on the topic.

 

Theoretically this would be a great system but we have to take into consideration the amount of work required from Developers to code all that stuff. And it could be a pain, probably not worth the effort.

 

my answer is a YES,
GM can send those banned into the jail map like Henesys hunting ground, have them enjoy killing mushrooms n snails there

 

Thats a lot of work for the GMs for something that vote abusers would just make new accounts to vote abuse on again since they wont get banned.

 

Im good. i mean at the end of the day, i think if anyone was banned for cheating their way through progress whether its hacking or a voting exploitation, harassment or whatever why should they have a second chance? if you stoop that low on a god damn private server then you don't even deserve to be on one in the first place, private servers are easy mode when it comes to higher rates than normal, permanent NX & clean buffed equipment rarity? if you can't beat easy mode then you're best off not playing at all.

 

I have no sympathy for those who intentionally cheat to gain an advantage in the game. Those people can stay permanently banned.

My main concern lies with non-native English speakers who come from a different server and end up committing major vote abuse because what used to be normal is suddenly perma-ban worthy. I'll refer to this as "accidental vote abuse".

Players are supposed to read the rules, yes, but language barriers are a problem that Google Translate doesn't fully solve. Because vote abuse isn't like the other offences. For example, macro botting or verbal abuse is ban-worthy on pretty much every private server. It's also very common sense rules. Don't use hacks, don't be mean. Easy.

But voting only once-per-household? The only notable example I know of is this server. It's normal to vote once-per-account everywhere else, and besides, it isn't obvious why it's wrong, especially if all the other servers do it. It's much harder to notice you're doing something wrong. Is it really reasonable to expect a non-native speaker to notice this difference on their first read-through of the rules? If you were to read a set of rules translated from, say, Russian into English, how precise would your reading of the rules be?

I've read a few ban appeals here that had the language issue and are now forever banned. These are players who were kind, helpful, great for the community and great at the game - until one day they are banned with no indication that they've been doing anything wrong before that. And because of how long they were doing it (and without warning, I am assuming) it is major vote abuse and therefore a permanent ban. How were they supposed to know? Most people don't read ban appeals for fun. I'm imagining these unfortunate people would have stopped vote abusing, if asked, or if they knew it was against the rules. But they weren't asked, just banned.

The immediate escalation from zero warning to perma-ban is the root of the issue, in my opinion. If I'm mistaken on that, then I retract my complaint. I also don't know what exactly constitutes major vote abuse, so if the definition of major vote abuse already accounts for some evidence of intentional abuse, then I also have no complaints. But if some warning or restitution system can be implemented, it would definitely help these players. Or some other feedback loop for the player would be good.

There also needs to be more clarity on the voting rules to better prevent accidental vote abuse. There's some information on the Vote for NX page, but it could be clearer. At the least, the rule of once-per-household-per-day should be stated multiple times in different wording so that translation will be more likely to work. The chance of a permanent ban should also be stated and bolded on that page. The current clarification link is a good explanation, but voters should not need to click anything to at least get an idea of the conditions and consequences of abuse.

 

How does one "accidently" Vote more than once in the same day? literally impossible unless you've got some form of Amnesia. i think if someone is literally going out their way to abuse votes and get caught out early then claim it was accidental, not much damage would have been done if it were once or twice but clearly and obviously the motive and intention was there the whole time. like the saying goes, once a cheater always a cheater its just down to how good at it you are, even then Karma comes full circle. i see it like this, by the time i'm able to get 35 gacha tickets for 30k NX, someone's supposed to be slapped on the wrist whilst they have abused the system "accidently" and likely made 70 or if not 105 or even more in the exact same time? nah those kinds of people are the shit stains of the community and it's beyond me why anyone should be given any chance whatsoever for "accidently" making two votes in one day.
I myself have forgotten i have voted before but even so it states clearly with a message saying i cannot vote again that same day on the exact same account therefore where can i go wrong? i've voted one time on an ALT account and that was specifically to buy a Pet and auto HP/loot for my HS mule to use. Even then i didn't see a reason to go voting on both accounts on the same day, i even asked in forum chat box if it was okay to vote as i was unsure.
For any form of wrong doing i can't see why there is any form of second chances if anything it's an insult to us players who abide by the rules and respect them, its like saying do you shit in the toilet or do you shit on the floor? Zero warning to a permanent ban is a root issue? the root issue are the people who think it's smart to do it in the first place.

 

The game is pretty easy as it is. If you get 8k nx a day you will probably reach end game in 1 year or 2 depending on how much you play.

Imagine voting on 50 accounts to make that 50x faster.

They can stay banned fuck them.

If English is not their native language, onus is on them to translate and figure the rules out. Their haste in playing the game without reading/understanding the rules leads to other legit players suffering. Thats on them.

They can take it as an important life lesson. Getting banned on a private server is better than signing a contract you didnt understand in real life and getting ripped off for the rest of your life/money.

 

There's a reason why they put once per household, it's cause NX is tradable in this server unlike others... If by chance the developers try making once per account and not household, I believe the economy of MR will go crazy and HP washing will be too easy and not just washing, the entire game will becoming easier which is really not the point of old school maple...
The developers are doing their best to keep the game going, Give them some slack

 

Correct, the system stops you from voting on the same account. But do you play on other private servers? In my experience, for other servers you're supposed to make more accounts and vote again with them. What is considered major vote abuse here is considered normal in other places. I don't think this difference is made sufficiently clear in our voting page.

Examples of this in other servers. I just sampled the 2nd- and 4th-most popular servers, so don't accuse me of cherrypicking. 3rd ranked server seems to be down, couldn't access the forums or website.

• MapleLegends: Multiple voting is encouraged. There's an entire guide on how to vote with multiple accounts per day. [Source - GUIDE: Voting 101 for multiple accounts | MapleLegends Forums - Old School MapleStory ]
• DreamMS: (from DreamMS Terms of Use) 1.5 Voting - You are allowed to vote once per account per day. (No mention of voting on multiple accounts being illegal. The previous version of DreamMS only allowed one vote per player per day, so they're obviously aware of the economy effects, but the rule seems to have been intentionally relaxed during the 2021 reboot. Source 1 - Terms of Use | Dream MS Forum , Source 2 - Vote Abuse Exploit ~ Let's talk about it | Dream MS Forum)

Other servers allow this because it gives them a boost in the vote ranking. With multiple votes, even a small-sized playerbase can get a high rank in GTOP. So you can see why they allow it. Though I'm glad MapleRoyals doesn't need to resort to this kind of questionable strategy to stay on the top of the ranking, I hope you can see that the rules that Royals is using is definitely out of the ordinary, and that confusion about the rules is to be expected if special effort isn't taken to make it clear.

Yes, vote abuse grants the player an advantage. That is why I proposed the NX debt system so that if you benefited 10 billion mesos worth of NX from vote abuse, you should pay back a fine of 10 billion mesos, among other restrictions. This removes the benefit that they have gained, as well as the damage to the economy. Vote abusers should not have a get out of free card. The damage they do to the economy must be fixed. The system I have proposed is not perfect, but the idea is there and can be refined or made simpler to implement.

I am also not saying all vote abusers should be unbanned. There are different types of vote abusers, and I think the staff already recognize this since there is a difference between minor and major vote abuse. I am also not saying that MapleRoyals should allow once-per-account voting. The current system is fine. All I'm arguing for is a bit more leniency with vote abuse bans and more transparency in the form of early warnings before minor vote abuse becomes major vote abuse.

Of course the easiest way is to ban everybody who makes even the tiniest mistake. It's just a game, right? Less hassle for the staff, no big loss for the server, and a learning experience, like you say. It's easy to punish people when you see them as an 'other' or an 'outsider'. It's harder to look for and be kind to people who might deserve a second chance. But I think it's the right thing to do.

 

Interesting proposal. What recourse do you suggest if these vote abusers dont pay this 'debt' and just make a new account to vote abuse on again?

 

I'm not a staff, but at a guess, making a new account would be ban evasion, which is already covered in the normal Royals Terms of Use. So it'll be a punishment equivalent to the offence that they have committed, meaning that for major vote abuse it'll be a permanent ban again. I agree the wording of my proposal isn't very clear yet, it'll need to be workshopped a bit to make it watertight.

The intent of my proposal is to give first offenders a chance, particularly those who offended due to ignorance of the rules for an understandable reason. If they re-offend, it's no longer because of ignorance, so no third chances, that's for sure.

 

Im a little confused because the whole point of this discussion was to suggest an alternative punishment other than being banned.

So if vote abusers dont get banned, and instead have to pay off a 'debt', whats stopping them from making new accounts to continue vote abusing if they arent banned?

 

I'm not sure I understand your concern, could you elaborate a little?

If your worry is that ex-vote abusers might continue vote abusing even after being given a second chance, then I agree that these re-offenders should be re-banned.

My goal is to convert some banned vote abusers into unbanned non-vote abusers. The debt system is meant as a second chance to permabanned players, to let them play again (though at a disadvantaged and indebted state). If a hypothetical player uses the debt system to keep playing instead of getting banned, but still continues vote abusing via other accounts, then I cannot support that, and this hypothetical player should be banned.

 

1)How do we know if they vote abused on purpose or its due to a language barrier?

2)This would give an option for every vote abuser to use as an excuse to get a second chance

3)If they do come back to the server because they are 'unbanned with a debt', whats stopping them from not paying this 'debt' and just making a new account altogether? i.e A continuous cycle of ruining the economy and more unnecesary work for the already overworked GMs

4)Sounds very idealistic and wholesome as a friendly community but not realistic. I really dont want legit players to suffer at the expense of cheaters (intentional or not)

The market is already ruined by such cheaters and if this suggestion were to pass, that would mean a huge increase in admin work for Staff which may not even produce the results we expect theoretically.

How does this affect legitimate players? More work for GMs means less time to spend on updates. This means legit players wait even longer for new content and for what? So cheaters have a second feel of nostalgia. Unlikely to be well received.