General Should banned players be given a second chance?

Its not. Some players vote abused for 7 years (may not be for full duration) and was only caught this year.

I wouldnt say its difficult but it definitely isnt easy. GMs spend a lot of time hunting them down.

 

Are we talking about a single account which votes twice a day by switching IP's? If so, then there shouldn't be any "hunting". They should have systems in place to automatically detect and flag that.

 

I wouldnt know. I havent fallen to that level where I gotta cheat on a game already set to easy mode.

Gotta wait for the GMs to answer that

 

1) Language barrier or not, I think it's about the claim of ignorance of the rules. I imagine the debt to be given on appeal rather than automatically. It will probably be on a case-by-case basis.

2) A second chance, yes. A third chance, no.

3) I don't think the players are any more free to make a new account than they are when they're perma-banned. They're going to need to change their IP address and the other hacky stuff that people normally use to ban evade. It's actually harder, because now their account has been highlighted to the GM's attention. Is there a reason why these unbanned players are more likely to make a new account to ban evade rather than a regular permabanned player?

Or are you concerned that an unbanned player will give their valuable items and currency to another player, then stop using the account with no intention of paying the fine? That is a possible exploit but possible to work around. I'm considering some kind of system to automatically liquidate their valuable assets at market price and use it to pay off the debt, but it'll need some work as covering this exploit will need a new system instead of the 8k NX debt coin thing. I am also interested in improving the system to need minimal GM oversight and minimal exploitation. I'll see if I can think of one. Are there any other exploits you can see?

4) I also do not want legit players to suffer. I actually don't want anyone to suffer. I want to explore ways which we can possibly expand the boundaries of that we can do, but only if it makes sense for the effort involved to implement it. I am not insisting on implementing the system that I have previously proposed, but I do want to find a way to improve leniency without negatively affecting player experience.

Lastly there's an additional goal that I have, and that is to undo some of the damage done by vote abusers. Currently what happens is that someone will vote abuse and introduce 1 million NX into the economy, then get banned. The 1 million NX is still in the economy. Twenty vote abusers means 20 million extra NX, which is 23,000 extra gacha tickets or 6500 extra APRs in the market. This causes oversupply, driving down APR and CS/WS/gachastuff prices.

I want to find a way to create a NX sink of the same size as the NX introduced into the system. This removes the extra NX from the system, and ideally the person who converted the NX into mesos/assets in the first place (aka the vote abuser) should be the one to convert their mesos/assets back into NX to be removed from the system. The idea that I proposed, of buying back the debt using NX, is one way of doing this. There's definitely more possibilities, but I do think this is something that should be done.

The current system of banning players also does remove some currency from the economy, in the form of the banned players assets no longer being accessible. It's a bit problematic though because this removes the exact wrong thing from the economy. The price of assets (like equips and etc) is being pushed up because the assets are lost when banned. The price of APRs and CS/WS/gachastuff prices are still driven down because the supply is still greater than normal. There's no conversion in the opposite direction of where the vote abusers usually go. It's like a death spiral of valuable things disappearing into the void. That's something to think about. The status quo isn't better, we're just more used to it.

 

KEKW

 

Im just going to answer one point for now because I realise the discussion is based off facts we cant confirm till a GM affirms it.

3) Liquidating their items to repay the debt they have doesnt make it fair for legit players. If I vote abused on 50 accounts and had 400k nx a day, that amount of funding would allow me to make several fold just by merching.

And if GMs were to simply let them repay their debt with market rate, they would still stand to gain an absurd amount.

Give a merchant 100m and he'll convert it to 1b in a few hours.

You can make a lot of mesos if you have a starting fund.

This would actually encourage people to vote abuse rather than what it was originally meant to do,i.e. giving second chances

 

I agree with the issue you mentioned, it's the same issue in real life where rich people can take out $1 million loans. I understand where you're coming from.

But surely there's a middle ground to be found. Surely there's a way to adequately punish people that has a little bit of nuance.

Besides, I am tempted to argue that a merchant with the skill to convert 100m into 1b in a few hours (or, to be generous, maybe a week) is someone who wouldn't feel the need to vote abuse again with a second chance. And might also be someone who could contribute a great deal to the community, both in education as well as a better-run economy, if they could be rehabilitated instead of banned.

 

if they are so innocent in abusing the votes and getting a lot of advantage in the game

what a joke it would be to see how they sell 10 chaos scrol with 5 billion coins just by abusing votes

impresses me outside the game or discord they are selling items for real currency (bucks or euros)

 

So many people took this and ran with it in so many different directions, at the end of the day, I was simply calling for a second chance for people who broke the rules. NOT ON THE SAME ACCOUNT. THEIR ADVANTAGE IS GONE. But people will just comment without reading, oh well I tried.

 

Legends allow multiple voting because the nx earned by voting cannot be converted to meso anyway. It has no impact on game economy so they just can let them do whatever they want with their votes.

I have nothing to say about DreamMS because I have no information about that server, but with the context provided in your second source, I believe majority of players in DreamMS still think that vote abuse should be stopped.

Your proposal about the debt system is interesting, but who's gonna look and analyze through all the lies that banned people say? I would say that puts too much burden on GMs/Admins. Please remember they are volunteers. They are not getting paid and they have their own life going on outside of Royals. Let's have some pity for them, shall we?

 

Those banned people must have "read" and answered the questions about server rules before leaving South Perry too.
I would say no to giving any second chances.

 

Enjoy the dead server. "Well at least the servers full of honest people". Okay.

 

lul the server has been dead for last couple years anyway and i dont enjoy the server anymore as well bro

if you want my serious comment here it is: whos gonna distinguish if the abuse was a mistake or intentional and how?

I have been part of Korean Royals community for years now. When newcomers join the server and ask for answers to go to Victoria continent, we don't give them answers to the questions directly, but rather give them translations of questions and answers so they can solve it themselves. We do that just because we know no one is gonna read the whole ToS shit when making ID (I know I didn't lol) so we want them to take time and at least read the TLDR version of the server rule before proceeding on. We also warn the new players all the time not to vote abuse or hack. And you know what? Most of them fucking do anyway.

GMs and Admins are already burdened with (and probably are sick and tired of) loads of people lying about their vote abuse history. If second chance is a thing, now they will have to add another process verifying if they were truly mistaken people or if they are liars. As I mentioned in my previous comment, I don't wanna burden those volunteers with extra stressful shit in their lives. Server is dying? yeah it is. Will it suddenly gonna revive back to 2000-3000 people online like in COVID days if we give second chances to people? I highly doubt that.

 

Easy solution, it doesn't matter. If you break the rules with RWT your account is banned and you get 1 more chance on a new account. If you minor vote abused you get 1 more chance on the same account. If you major vote abused you get 1 more chance on a new account. If you hacked, you are perm banned.

 

This is a small game , with a small team handling it... Giving chances won't change anything but inturn will make things worse ( And I'm talking about this game, don't go comparing with others).... It seems like a easy solution, but it's more complicated then you think.

 

Wow that's one hell of a statement. You got any evidence or reasoning for that? Absolutely nothing will change? This game will 100% definitely get worse? You can predict the future?

The team being small is a poor excuse when this community has long term outstanding, helpful players, grow the team.

 

It matters because
a) admin needs time to verify and investigate each case and
b) it gives abusers experience avoiding the investigation, which will make them smarter and they will hide their evidences in more complicated and delicate ways.

First of all, I am not part of the Royals GM, but I can say with all my confidence that Tim is the only admin with access to the record, and he is VERY conservative in giving out bans, meaning, he won't give bans unless he has a lot of evidences on his hands. So, whoever gets banned are SERIOUS abusers, not like cute little fellas who abused the vote system by mistake.

Let's be realistic and not assume that all the minor abusers will suddenly become so kind and honest and will not abuse the vote system again - that's only possible in utopia with rainbows and unicorns. I personally believe that only 5% won't vote abuse again if they are given second chance, but lets say 20% decides not to vote abuse again upon second chance for the sake of our argument. I hope you would agree with me on this one.

In my experience of reporting suspicious players and seeing how long it takes to get rid of them, it takes about 2-3 weeks on average to look into the record, making sure that they are indeed abusing the vote system. If Tim is free that week, process is faster, if he is busy, process gets delayed.

If second time is given to the abusers and if they abuse again, Tim will have to wait for few weeks ~ months until the evidence accumulates, and while Tim gathers data here, 80% of the returning abusers will corrupt the game economy. Again.

This boils down to the problem Royals always had - lack of staff with authority to look into server records - but this has been mentioned before in the forum numerous times so I won't bring it into discussion here.

Also, abusers learn their lessons too. If they get caught, they learn their lesson and will be extra careful on their abusing schemes, making admin harder to spot out the evidence on vote history.

I'd say just keep them banned rather than going through all this hassle.

 

No, I don't have any evidence backing my reasoning but im speaking in general since it's pretty obvious what might happen..
@AshPile pointed it out

 

The most recent case I can recall is someone made a feeback for why there is a ban appeal section if there is no room for appealing, when his friend was banned for RWT a few days ago, and the thread was deleted shortly after. So why is this feedback made all of sudden? Is any of your friends banned recently?