Class/Skill Have enrage (hero buff), stack with attack pots.

We know heroes aren’t as popular as they once were, especially with the “rebalance patch”, but how big giving them a MINOR boost by making enrage a stackable buff? It’ll give enrage not only more of a purpose but it’s something that’s a decent boost every 3-4min also having to reset combo. This just will slightly close the gap being so far from its counterpart classes. Heroes damage is very inconsistent due to whatever formula brandish uses, but even though we probably won’t get another “rebalance” update anytime soon, this would be a nice way to buff heroes up without it being “broken.”

 

+1 from me

However I feel like it should apply to more classes than just Hero -

I think Dragon Blood for Dark Knights should also stack with potions, however probably not be able to stack with enrage, or maybe? I'm not sure. I don't know if there is more downsides to this than immediately meets the eye, but even if skills like bless don't stack accuracy / avoid, it would still be nice to have class buffs that are currently purposeless, and in fact harmful to the game (when removing apples from party members), be able to add some utility to the game. This could also apply to things like meditation for arch mages. I'm open to hearing the downsides of this change if people have some to share.

 

I second this. i almost exclusively use my Drk for everything now it would be nice for heros to get this buff ^_^

 

I agree. I think it is reasonable considering hero has no skill that benefits party members. A minor boost in DPS is nothing crazy and will no way break any "balance".

 

Agree, I cant remember last time I did any boss or cwkpq with a hero. Heroes right now stand in a horrible spot and most old heroes switched to different classes, anything a hero can do, a drk can do better

 

rage/enrage/concentrate/etc are relic skills, vestige nostalgia before the ubiquitous att pot meta pushed them into obsolescence outside ironman builds. having them stack with att potions would be pretty OP, unless there were significant acc loss, requiring more base dex, or other drawbacks.

a ton of ideas have been floated to help enrage in this current meta (which i can safely say will not go away), probably the most sensible is rage/enrage just temporarily buffing STR flatly, (and not factoring into MW).
enrage requiring max rage, hard accuracy loss (cant be supplemented with high +100 acc potions), and keeping the hero in "alert" state (so you cant abuse the +str to eq higher stat eq for other low str classes that have rage buffs)

bunch of threads and discussions have been had where to take it. it's basically only good for super high att geared heros to save on att potions, and not a good enough skill to help low range heros. its worth tinkering with its current utility to give it something extra imo, but fairly unlikely, but especially the att stacking route

 

You do realize “high att heroes” are on par with little to no funded classes (NL, Bucc, shad, sair, arguably pali) a 26 att pot increase for héroes WOULDNT hardly shake things up, please do your research and look up damage formulas, it literally takes heroes an apple/gelt/demon elixir just to be close to an NL with se APPLELESS.

 

Sadly with the power creep going higher and higher, heros, along with several other classes started to being left behind and behind, i dont want to derail the topic, but ppl always kind of try to explain these kind of things with their own vision and experiences, wich is completely fine btw, is just that is not always accurate. If you guys actually wanna archieve something on regards, heros in this case, it should start by identify what the problem actually is. Only to avoid useless discussions about, for example "how inconsistent is brandish formula" , you will have ppl in your thread arguing, how other classes may vary even more from line to line. And theyre right. Brandish dmg wide range its a problem to some ppl view and just that, who likes to see much closer numbers and get frustated seeing 40k lines when they know sometimes 80k lines shows up, but if you kill krex 2nd eye 10 times, you will see that most of the times it will take you around the same time to finish it, wich can be concluded to an actually very consistent dmg, its a matter of points of view. Also comments like this:

Are pretty unnacurate and will lead to endless and useless debates.

Now, its a FACT that heros are terribly behind, 2 steps away from MMs, 3 away from drks, 4 away from pallys, and this ones are several steps away from the other jobs who have better ratings. Problem started a few years ago post new source when both drks and heros started to beign left behind, their dmg didnt escalated as good as nls/sairs with gears upgrades and didnt fit that well into the new meta as buccs/shads. At some point several ppl noted that heros were usually as good if not better than drks, being much easier to use ,and asked for a buff, and after an endless thread that buff was given. Instantly the Drk hype started, and ppl beleived those players who said, "Theres actually no difference between playing a hero and a drk, just taht drk is stronger" they trew away their heros and made drks instead, till one point were ppl realize that was a lie(as that pro player said when he dropped his hero to make a drk , "ye drk hits good, but its just tiring to play") droping away their drks.... but why would they come back to that job thats pretty much the same?. They mained pallys/buccs or shads instead. Leaving their drks for those specific situation when they shine( cwkpq bottom, and just recently LHC) Drk hype and posterior dissapointment its proven, you can see those 33-35 skis sold and few months after ppl struggling to sell for 25b... But ewven with ppl realizing this fact, the ghost is there "Heros are bad" " Oh god, im hitting so low" "So much weaker than drks". And that contributed to make them even less and less popular. Heros received a very good buff here:



Anyone who actually knows drks and heros in depth knows that this pretty much brought them at the same lvl in terms of dmg back, from this point onwards i have been saying "Heros are back better than drks" to everyone i know. Sadly theres just a few players that know drk in depth, and honestly i dont know a single good dedicated " In depth" hero player. But it was too late. The stigma is there and its not going back.

This long story is just to say that, one reason why heros havent had any other buff in all this time when most ppl realize theyre behind is to not re-alive that long ass discussion "Why heros are stronger than drks, when theyre easier to use", if you buff hero, you have to buff drk along, and theres several clueless ppl saying that drks are already OP. That might be a staff and developers concern(and if it isnt, it should be)

2nd.- Idr where but i heard it was impossible to make rage/DB/Hex/Enrage buff stack with att pots. These ofc were pre yeepog era. o there might be a change there

3rd.- All time reason to keep things at they are, Nostalfa......Nostalgia.

But something must be done. Honestly iI haved the idea for years now, it doesnt matter if heros drks and some other jobs are terrible at some places, but must absolutely shine at others, and not being just theorically good as they are now.

TLDR.-FINISH HERE, THERES THE PROPOSALS.

Want some good changes?. Dont touch the jobs...Touch a bit the conetnt and you will see differences: Lemme trow some ideas:

1.-Increase Brandish and Crusher action range up and down to at least match Blast action range, and let players find the difference

2.-Reduce the HP of Zak bodies, add it to arms, and make arms a bit more agressive, then increase cancel cd on body.

3.-Slighty reduce the HP on Ht heads, then add it to arms and wings OR, reduce the % of HP where arms start their skills(warnings) but reduce the cd on those skills

4.- Change Stg 4 of auf haven expedition, taking out HP of any other you preffer(lets face it, CB is the most braindead, take the most hp of this one here pls) and instead of summon weak mobs, make it summon 3 decently Hp Bosses (lets say, 100m HP each?)

2,3 and 4 even benefits shads buccs and MMs aswell, 2 and 3 harms no one in exchange(4 does screw just Single target runs a bit)

This way, you dont need to keep touching the jobs, you make their stronger points MORE RELEVANT. I beg staff to take a look on this suggestions and at the very least consider them.

What do you think @Kenny ?

 

A lot to digest here, but I think I made a personal mistake saying “enrage” instead of “rage” in my first response. Hero is admittedly one of the few classes I am not completely familiar with, however my suggestion is still aimed towards utility for all + no harm to potions. Rage being able to apply to all members of a party + potions is a route. But worst case scenario it would be nice to fix rage overwriting pots. All and all it wouldn’t be a buff just for Hero’s.

Keep in mind I’m trying to produce simpler changes instead of complex ones. Don’t want to jump too many steps ahead. But I’m also aware of being unaware of how simple/hard it is to tweak code for changes. So who knows.

 

Thanks for the ping (not sure why I was ping tho). First of all, afaik the stack is more complicated than you might think and it is pretty difficult to implement. Secondly, I agree to touch the contents rather than “balancing” the jobs. Perhaps one of the reason melee is less popular now is because of the current endgame contents are heavily favoring single-target job.

 

I have experienced all melee classes.
I have :
200 and 199 Heroes
200 Paladin
200 DarkKnight
200 Buccaneer
170 Shadower.

To my experience
I feel hero has no unique abilities or party buff to offer.
Not able to be a versatile mule when you are retired or quit.
As for damage, Dark Knight can do better than hero.
I am not going to argue with you just saying the truth. I never feel Zerking in HT CWK LHC is hard. I usually trio clients main Hero/Dark and muling BS and SE in HT. Never feel it is hard to zerk or die many times cos of zerk. Zerking in HT is easy just auto pot with cheese or milk. To me I feel they both classes are the same not difficult to play.
I’m not considering somewhere the boss is not fit for the class. Like putting dark knight in auf and toad. and I will never bring my hero or DK to the spot like auf or toad cuz no reason to be there. I’m mainly saying the bosses fit for melee like cwk bottom, Horntail, LHC.

The only party buff rage being attack potion remover and bringing hates to heroes.
Hero’s defence crash can be considered as party buff as this helps the bishop a lot in HT. But this is not unique ability because Dark Knight can do the same or slightly better job.


while DK has HB, Pally has CR, Bucc has SI&TL, Shad has SS and Mesos Guard(unique ability to be Seducer) for the party.
Im not gonna to explain much in these buffs. They are really unique and useful party buff in different situations. But hero has nothing.

I wish to make hero able to contribute more for the party. Like making the rage as party buff stackable.
if this is not possible, let hero do more damage as this is the only thing hero can contribute for the party.

As for now, Hero is at the weird spot. In damage DK can do better. In utility, hero has nothing to offer.

 

As a person who's always loved the Hero class solely, I couldn't agree more with everything that's been said.
Heroes are simply underpowered and useless for parties.
Absurdly, we can't even use our own rage for our own advantage, as Warrior Elixirs and Ciders are easily obtainable.

 

It appears that no one wants to invite Heroes to their boss runs because they lack any party buffs to give to the group (forcing them to always mule something). So I agree with fixing rage/enrage making them able to stack with attack potions.

 

Why not just have enrage give 60-120(whichever more balanced) attack? A free hs/apple/gelt every few minutes seems pretty good and it doesn't seem like the team wants to work on stackable buffs.

 

Naw because we want a statistical increase rather than a money saver, I’d rather stack an additional 26 atk to one of my atk pots rather than save mesos, the priority is to increase the DPS