unlike most tax systems IRL which are used to fund public project etc. the tax system in the game is to remove the mesos, in order to combat problems later on such as inflation this thread is about the pre-paying of b coin taxes vs the current post paying of b coin taxes what i'm saying is that the change only only affects the super high value trades, valuing 71b and above, but if we really wanted to do something about taxing the game properly, the focus should be on the de-facto currency in CS/WS before worrying about the b coin problem because currently, CS/WS are a playing a significant role in tax unfairness
I am meeting this problem now The system forces me not to use mesos to complete the transaction and forces me to negotiate with players to use compensation, because the game is not designed to allow players to complete "all" trade, if we can not remove tax mechanism, then I will agree the new coin system
The main goal of this is not to stop tax evasion. It is to standardize the side that is taxed in trades. Sellers that don’t want to be taxed could still ask buyers to cover them or raise their price by 3% in advance. While we do understand people got used to the current system it shouldn’t hinder us from exploring alternatives. We are still looking for more input.
if the goal is solely to standardize the tax system to 3% i am in favour of the idea of the used b coin being worth 970m, as the b coin should act as if it was 1b meso exactly so giving 2b meso or 2b coin should be identical instead of the current 2b meso = 1.94b on receiver and 2b coin = 2.06b on sender but i would prefer that the used b coin be convertable to the tradable b coin by exchanging 30m+ used b coin, much like doing crafting instead of having to sell and re-buy the b coin makes it more streamlined (also a sneaky reference to why we need to standardize the tax system) https://royals.ms/forum/threads/technically-bil-coins-are-2-912621359-tax-rate-not-3.160656/
Yes, making it so that you constantly have to free up enough space to sell the used coin and then rebuy a new one would be annoying. Some sort of "Coin Washer" machine with a 30m cost would make it a lot more convenient, especially for people who wind up with a huge stack of these used coins. Or maybe they could be a Use item that consumes 30m when used and returns a regular coin?
Such "coin washer machine" would mean that if you converted meso into B coins simply because of max cash, you now lose 30m if you later want to convert it back to meso when you need to buy whatever in FM stores. I still don't see any reason why a change of the working of the B Coin is necesary. The problem is the integer limit, every fix is just another colored bandage. For it to function as a taxable asset, additional mechanics are required. Unless a new fix reduces the total amount of mechanics, I dont see it bringing any improvement. It would change nothing on how trades are done, Comparing the old to the proposed. The old simplifies trades, people can accept B Coin as payment, that's it. You want 1b, you get 1b. With the proposed change, people will just shift to accept B Coin as 970m. Since buyer pays tax, a 1b transaction would become 1b coin + 30*1.03m. Assuming everyone reads the patch notes and undestands the change the second on reading it. This would increase the duration of each trade by like 0.0000000001 seconds, not a lot but also not an improvement. What will positive change would the proposed change bring? Changing who pays tax? That's still the buyer, they just need to do more maths.
Standardizing the tax is the main goal so the proposed change would do that. Also, you are assuming the buyer will always pay tax. What about buyers who are fixed on only spending 1b mesos? They’ll probably pass on the trade if they have to add in 30m. At least I would because 30m adds up if I do trades like this all the time. There’s no shortage on sellers atm because the population is not as high as it used to be. This meaning more people scrolling gears compared to people buying them. Attack gears, apart from super end game ones are getting harder to sell, you can see mid game att gears like 10wa fs and 20wa gloves taking a decent amount of time to be sold, even at a much lower price than they are usually worth or used to be sold at. You can see this by the drop in price of these gears. Wa9 fs used to be s/b 4b now people a/w it at 3.5-3.7. This change would not shift the burden of paying tax to anyone. the burden of paying tax has and will always go to the more desperate party. you want my aprs more than I want your mesos? You cover tax. you want my wa gear more than I want to sell it? I decide the price and I decide you cover tax. you want to liquidate your gear to buy something else at a good deal? You have to be prepared to sell at a lower price and this means you may have to cover tax if no one wants to buy your gear. It has nothing to do with how the game designs tax.
Just allow players to use "Untradable Used 1B coin + 30m meso" to exchange a "Tradable 1B coin", so players don't have to exchange Used B coins to meso and use meso buy the B coins again...
Let's break down the issue and look at each component individually. We need to be objective here. First, the issue of the 2.xx billion meso limit. Does the 1B coin effectively solve this issue? Certainly yes. Does it need to be changed? Not really. At least that's my opinion on it. Next, the 3% "tax". To begin with, calling it a tax is inherently misleading, because the mesos involved just disappear into the ether without having any further effect/utility. Let's be candid and admit that it is simply a meso sink to combat inflation. To that end, it is rather ineffective. Market forces - e.g. game events increasing item drop rates, or supply/demand - have a much greater effect on the volatility and value of mesos. It is also (currently) inconsistent when comparing transactions using regular mesos vs 1B coins. Therefore, the question to be posed: Does the meso sink work to combat inflation? Personally I'd say no. Moving on then, how do we effectively combat meso inflation? Theoretically quite simple. Just implement an effective meso sink. Whatever the solution, the point is to remove mesos from the game instead of passing it between players. In reality, there aren't many options. There aren't many high value transactions with NPCs (if any). We could convert some cash shop items from nx to mesos (maybe gacha tickets), or have another "gambling" mechanism that uses mesos that is separate from the gacha that's already in the game. Or taking ws/ds out of the gacha pool and selling them via NPCs so that the mesos don't remain as liquidity. I wouldn't say that my suggestions are popular nor if they will be effective, I'm sure someone will have some bright ideas.
The goal of this change is to unify the tax system that Meso or B Coin gets taxed after the trade like Zanck said and make it fully functional because it doesn't allow you to make a trade that's over 70B+ B Coins like Moeyuki said. This has nothing to do with inflation or using valuble items to avoid taxes...etc.
I disagree. The whole debate about buyer or seller "paying" the 30m arises from the 3% meso sink that is currently implemented. If we can conclude that it does not serve its intended purpose, we can move to remove it and the resultant issue with regards to 1B coins becomes nonexistent.
That's how trading was designed originally where it gets taxed after the trade like trading with Meso. B Coin is exist and custom made in Royals (I believe?) because of the coding limitation but B Coin and Meso are the same currency so it should share the same function as Meso where it gets taxed after the trade
This post is not about whether to remove taxes or not... The whole debate is about players already getting used to the current trading system even though it was not designed correctly. Players argue it requires time and effort for them and the market to adjust which is understandable. That's the whole point.
"That's how trading was designed originally" doesn't mean it's currently effective or useful. I'm advocating for a more effective meso sink that will also eliminate this debate of how to apply a meso sink to 1B coins.
Again, the whole debate exists because 3% meso sink exists. If it doesn't work effectively, and if it is technically feasible to remove it from the game, then we should be looking at how to implement an alternative, effective meso sink and the 30m issue with 1B coins becomes nonexistent.
In @Firefly1's defense, I think you guys are missing their broader point regarding the inherent purpose of the 3% tax. To put it simply: if we take the 3% tax on meso trades and place it somewhere else, then we wouldn't even need to debate about whether the 3% tax on b coin trades should be placed on the seller or the buyer. It's not about removing the tax, it's about shifting the tax to a more appropriate area. Doing so also serves to "unify the tax system" while simultaneously addressing other concerns about this server's economy. Although I somewhat meme'd about it earlier in the thread, I think that it's a legitimate point (but it's perhaps also a point beyond the scope of what staff were hoping for with this thread).
Remove 1b coin item from game. Divide the cost and value of everything by 1000. Everything meaning change mesos on each player and storage. Lower the price for buying and selling with npc. Lower the mesos that mobs drop. Lower the meso reward from quests. Lower everything by the factor of 1000. 1m is the new 1b. Player can essentially carry up to 2t in old system currency. Might have to tweak some skills like meso explosion for damage and we are good. EZ /s If you want to tackle tax avoidance through trading ws/cs. Make them 1 time trade if possible. So players who gachapon/Zak/craft them can only find buyers who are going to use them to scroll.
