In Discussion Class/Skill [Feedback Request] Skill Changes and Balancing

I actually really like the total sum of all changes for all classes, this is indeed that exact thing that was missing in the Original version, and instead of making all classes on par, they chose to break the game and introduce BigBang update (that’s when I quit as all my godly attack gear became cr@p). So actually seeing the development going the right way instead, might refresh the game and still leave it nostalgic -> make all classes viable (fix skills, such as matk and attack boosters that should stack with any potion, mage cast speed to be effected by SI and weapon attack speed (Making low luk mages with 163 staff better than ele6 or 5 wand luckless mages) and everything else mentioned within the margin of good taste.
Next move after implementing skill related changes, weapons should be rebalanced. All weapons should be viable just same way all classes should be.

especially for warriors that have pole arms, spears, 1h sword, 1h axe, 1h sword and their 2h counterparts.
Maybe 2H axe should receive a higher frame hit (Good for HT heads) while swords can have longer reach or something alike.

it really feels that after almost a decade we reached that critical point of: Remain as is (Nostalgic but lacking), introduce BB (And shutdown the server) or Improve and Develop existing (Nostalgic and growing)

 

Remove the kb from guardian or make it toggle somehow. The randomness just makes it annoying especially when warriors want stuff in front of their face to hit or if they're trying to gather mobs. I'm not the first one to mention this change either.

 

+1

 

@Icato Thoughts on if Guardian applied Hamstring debuff for 5secs instead of knocking back foe?

 

To be honest i really enjoy using the guardian in my favor, as all jobs when you learn how to use the skill in your favor its always good, but sometimes isnt that easy.

Talking about Guardian, i dont think need change to be honest, it ALWAYS helps me in mostly bosses that i do, including AUF (Since you CANT RUSH in this map) so i dont really need one bucc in the run to do that, i can count with guardian!
also if i need rebuff or even use my mule to rebuff si and leave the Pally stop for few secs mostly of the times when boss moves, the KB works and helps to keep the boss in the wall.

I Really dont think need change ANYTHING in Guardian skill, who wanna it can use shield who doesnt wanna it can use 2h, or even doesnt up in the skills.

I also saw pple saying its bad when you are killing boss like rushing to the right> and you need go lil to the left< so when you turn left the guardian kb the boss too for left. (BUT THE SOLUTION I USE FOR IT IS= when you go turn left< you just jump and left< than turn right>. it ALWAYS works for me and never kb the boss to the left with me).

That is my opnion and i would keep Guardian as it is! But also would like to know your opnion about it @xDarkomantis

Also About the Total Crash i Agree 100% with @xDarkomantis to make same range as SE/SI and prob if possible same time buff, the range is terrible atm...

 

+1 On this. I respect ppl opinions aboutt he skill, but its a fact that no matter how they word why the KB on guardian skill is bad, what theyre really saying is "Nerf the skill bcs i dont know how to use it, and that affects me in a negative way" without knowing it. You can control 100% the direction the boss goes, it just need practice and OFC pay atention.

 

Right... you respect opinions without even asking me any questions and resort to back handed comment that I just don't know how to play. You're a Drk main... I'm playing 1H Paladin and 1H Hero... Not that you'd even play 1H either way...

 

Im really sorry. I can see where the missunderstanding comes from, after all Im replying a comment that comes from a tag in your reply on this thread. Im actually supporting Muu comment as a reply to all the ppl who are labeling the guardian KB as detrimental. Wich is quite a good amount of ppl(some of them are even friends of mine), and theres even a thread asking for this nerf(but implying it would be kind of a buff instead). To be completely honest I kind of ignored your comment(wich implies a trade off with another effect, so you werent asking for a nerf per se) and used the comment as an answer not only to hikari previous reply, but like I said to all the ppl who asked for the same thing b4. Sum up, I wasnt Implying you dont know how to play, my comment wasnt even taking you in consideration, It was directed to other ppl.

-BTW:
- I wasnt even Implying that all the ppl who were asking for KB remove "dont know how to play" what Im saying is that they dont know how to use this particulary skill, In a game with several different jobs, and dozens of different skills telling someone that they dont know how to play just bcs they use 1 skill poorly is just ridiculous, so pls dont put words in my mouth.

- I can disagree with the idea, but still respect the proposal, specially in this case just because its actually true that the effect on this skill cant be neutral, or in other words its great when you know how to use it, but its indeed detrimental when you dont, so if theres more ppl asking the same thing, I would find that understandable.

-I dont think you need to play a job to theory craft about mechanics(or the oposite, theres ppl with lvl 200 who arent actually masters of their Job because they just mindlessly lvl that Job in particular by Hting daily without even looking at the screen) But if it helps, despite I would also say im a Drk main, I have a lvl 200 Pally too, on wich I used 1H+ shield config 90% of the time, and was designed to be a "Guardian paladin" from the start, I did all bosses on that pally Including my very first VL(and 1st on server) clear, so im talking from experience too.

 

Very strong agree here, guardian is stupidly good if you use it correctly. Only change I'd ask for is to not have the kb+mob aggro proc when mounted, if that's possible.

Also, for the jump/turn, it can occasionally fail, especially if you're a bit slow. The answer is usually get hit first, then do it while you have those iframes to cover you.



On an unrelated note, any change we can have Monster Magnet pull mobs closer to us? It feels like it pulls the mobs to just 1-2 hits away from the end of our reach, I'd rather have them almost right on top of me.

 

Right... Like you're not implying it by what you said here:

It's dull-witted to just state people arguing against the KB as not knowing how to use Guardian, which is a core aspect of playing a 1H Warrior. It's obvious that they'd have played enough of 1H Warrior to even suggest what they're saying otherwise they'd completely ignore the skill. Figuring out how to adjust for the random proc of Guardian and its KB isn't difficult to figure out if one commits to the 1H playstyle. Can the Guardian KB be good when it works favorably? Yes, we can all agree with that. However, that doesn't excuse the frustration 1H players might have with the KB when it works out of your control.

And it's not just people talking out of their ass. There's a good reason why on the other big server, players were making similar suggestions of changing Guardian which had ideas of removing the KB, making it toggable, or reducing KB range. They did actually nerf Guardian to make it less frustrating to play with as a 1H Warrior:

Spoiler

 

After Staff introduced Von Leon and the system change of Bosses no longer being "stunned" from being hit by multiple attackers/rush, I don't see why Rush is still disabled for Auf Haven causing Warrior players to still rely on random Guardian KB procs to control boss positioning.

 

I don't see why guardian would need a slow/hamstring effect over it's push + kb. That just peels away from BM already niche role, especially if you're a paladin which are much more popular than a hero now.

Guardian just needs the push toggle on/off (a working guardian hotkey would be very helpful for that)

Even though I still suggest hero's panic gets blind, and coma possibly a slow (or mp drain) effect, because hero's really need something juicy that's not an outrageous damage buff or forces everyone to max enrage. And in terms of hero's vs paladins, paladins are more useful overall, so hero getting those small buffs won't crush the 4th job archer skills, which are much easier to use than panic/coma

 

I mean come on... the years we endured your random ideas... I would have thought you'd give a stamp of approval

 

Coming up on 1 year since this post and still nothing, didn't expect much, still disappointed.

 

1 year is not a long time and within the typical time frame theyve taken to implement changes in the past. The substantial amount of changes listed, require a lot of dev time to make sure changing one skill doesnt immediately break another, or cause any unforseen problems like new exploits or harms server stability. A year would be a pretty quick turn around if it was all they were working on, but im confident its not. I imagine theres multiple things theyre working on at any one time ie; holiday events, general server stability, new content, class balance overhaul, or new bosses (pink bean when).

I think 1 year without any dev follow up or update is a more realistic criticism imho.

 

On topic, panic originally inflicted darkness but was forgotten before the official release, and panic/coma became "finishers" along the road of power creep, as opposed to the their secondary status functions (where so many skills also got stun, trivializing it, especially when killing was the best crowd control), hamstring never afflicted bosses, and guardian always worked this way, folks are just now appreciating it's use since the block rate buff and it's help in auf. I like where these skills and their utility sit for the classes and player-side execution

I guess throwing ideas out into the creative void commons isn't for everyone

 

Thinking back, it did take Staff over 2 years+ to implement class change of having Warrior shields go from 7 -> 10 slots lol

 

Heroes still have the worst DPS in server and no useful party skills and crappy brandish range where we still can’t even hit a simple 2 HT heads at once? Yup. Still waiting for a % increase in brandish/combo or an enrage overhaul? Yup. Replacing hero with NL or shad because they’re literally pointless? Yup.

 

You can tell what they are considering and not based off of certain posts in this thread and outside of it. A lot has to be considered and measured against unintended effects of these changes, and that's after deciding what is even going to be changed. It's a lot to consider. There's definitely some valuable feedback in here, and a lot that won't be considered too, but it's still a lot of narrowing down before you can even put the dev hammers to it, and then actually tuning it.

I'm as curious as anyone else, and I'm not trying to rush the team, but it would be interesting to know what is actually being considered at this point, what has not been worked on yet, etc, for direct feedback/discussion

Such as:
Are combo finishers being considered?
What has the team narrowed down for enrage (if anything)

Personally I just think a few tweaks to hero and archers (see my posts!) and were groovy

 

A response to this post directly from staff would be awesome. We're coming up on a year of this post being born, and an update would be satisfying. To see our efforts and contribution in this conversation being applied is very healthy for the community to see. Even if not much has been done, just give us something.

And if nothing is being done yet, tell us. Transparency is appreciated. Let eager souls assist in the efforts, add staff, etc.