In Discussion Content Rose Garden Nerf/Adjustments

Instead of rose garden being a content that is solely for profit and ring, i'd like to see rose garden being utilized more in a way that would serve as some sort of vehicle that players can do to boost their chances in taking down von leon, since von leon is the ultimate boss behind this whole LHC storyline.

Some things that come to my mind would be having an exchange NPC for flowers, that would exchange flowers for certain stuff like untradeble gelts, untradeable demon elixers, untradeable ssiws cheese etc. This would encourage more players to attempt von leon, and for those that are regularly clearing von leon, this would encourage them to attempt a lower player count von leon run !

An untradeable "enhancement" scroll could be designed and added to that list as well, it would be one of the components needed to turn vl cs 60% into vl cs 100% , or if that's too much, could just add parchment to that list .

The list would be something like this :
15 flowers - 1 untradeable gelt
25 flowers - 1 untradeable demon elixer
75 flowers - 1 untradeable parchment

Wouldn't this kill incentives to do bonus for players that don't care about von leon since there's no more profit to be made?
Not true, rose garden bonus still gives arguably the best xp rate for a solo character, and if they're 200, there's still the att pots to be earned, and they can start working on their belts too.
Think about it this way, you only need to do the bonus on your main character now in order to reap the benefits, like if you're not lazy, doing it daily would net you enough att pots for your weekly von leon run. Personally i think that's better than being "forced" to do bonus on all your characters just because everyone else is doing it and you don't wanna get left behind. Even if there isn't a von leon for me to join and if i wasn't making belt, i would still do it on my main attacker just for the gelts / demon elixers so i can destroy HT .

This also means that players won't feel like they are "missing out" if they decide not to do the bonus, which i think is a good thing, since royals has many other contents and shouldn't be overshadowed just because rose garden is too rewarding.

 

Which part of my comments asked for bm buffs? read my comments properly please. In particular "im not asking for any buffs". If highlighting the troubles my class has for this update is against the rules then feel free to report my comment lol

@Kung can do the same as well. digest my comments' real intention thank you. While you're at it you can also reply to my previous comment on what your suggestion is w.r.t. reducing hp of attacker class' boss hp for rose garden since you suggested it.

 

After doing this content since release, I agree with those above who talked about the inflow of mesos into the economy. It is just a little too broken in my opinion.

I get 100m/30mins on a non-meta character for this update and I feel it is too much. This is better than an insanely wet run of apq without the trouble of finding a party, finding haste, finding si, ensuring theres enough br/gr etc. It would be manifold on meta classes.

Should have slight change to the meso inflow, same reasoning as the ones who mentioned it before me above.

My suggestion is instead of selling gold bees for pure mesos, can either sell it at lower than 5m each or collect bees to trade for reuel's elixer of life potions (+20hp), not 1:1 of course. Idea taken from @xDarkomantis

 

man if you are failing to see that as a friendly banter and couldn’t let the slightest comment on you slide then you might actually find this useful:
https://medium.com/change-your-mind/how-a-15-second-vibe-check-can-change-your-life-20b8ad62f50d

had you been less aggressive, people would probably find it easier to resonate with your frustration more (I personally find your points valid but your delivery was simply coarse). I don’t think anybody would be against a QoL improvement for bm specifically because like you said the rest of the classes are all already doing much better in many other aspects. If the staff team do want to promote class diversity in the upcoming tweak/releases, your perspectives and recorded statistics are actually valuable to them.

 

Thank you for your insight. Believe it or not, I do appreciate friendly banter. But I also believe there is a right place and a right time for it, preferably with a friend as well.

Thank you for validating my points. I’m glad someone sees eye to eye with what I advocated/suggested.

My apologies if my delivery is “coarse”, but my intention is just to get the point across tbh, I really do not prioritise my expression in feedback threads. But thank you for pointing that out, I’ll try to keep that in mind the next time I comment on a thread.

 

Admittedly I skimmed through a lot of the early posts so all I remember is someone saying something along the lines of saledor stop asking for bm buffs, which I thought was amusing (oops) and added it in as an example of the many directions this thread was heading in. I have nothing against you wanting (or not wanting) bm buffs, or talking about how well bm fares in rose garden (people have been discussing at length about how well mages do in garden anyway). on that note please buff mms in general, we are begging.

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I like the idea of gelts though I think 15 for a gelt would mean 1-2 gelts per bon which is kinda sad considering apq (about 40mins?) will get you around 6 apples. So 10-12 per gelt at the most sounds about right to me, personally. More sources of demon elixirs are quite nice because cwk really doesn't drop them often (there were a bunch of people trying very hard to buy demons recently, as there were none in fm). The idea of having vl stuff as some incentive for more endgame players to continue to do bon would also be nice to explore.

At 200 I might not farm this content for gelts (still have over 100 from xmas lol), but I would if I could trade powders for a guaranteed ring at 40-100 each (this range is wide because it kinda depends on how much we value one powder by the end of this), though it might make people complain about some classes being able to get rings at a faster rate than others. Almost no one does epq for earrings and I would hate to see no one doing this content if the rewards are nerfed and the rings are so hard to get, because it is a fun activity and effort has definitely been put into the map/boss design and bee-catching.

If we're going down the trade powders for items route, I think mages still need to have some benefit to continue doing garden (I assume mages are meant to be included amongst the enjoyers of this content since the boss was specially nerfed for them), since vl/ring/exp doesn't interest the average mage as much. I have no idea what tradeables would sell well and not break the market (look at everyone screaming at cs prices), so hopefully someone else has some idea of what to add.

 

This is what i fear though, that if gelts are too easily attainable via an exchange quest, it would kill APQ and apple market.

 

To chime in here.

I think apple market is already dying. With rose garden we see less people HTing:

• Much less S>HTP smegas
• Gen back to 1b~ (RG and less stock i think)
• Apples are still 8-8.5m price

 

Interesting since imo using Apple in Rose Garden is the way to go. I gain around 25% more bees on Apple compared to gozer.

 

People are almost certainly HTing less as a server in my opinion.

• Even if you’re appleing on 2 charas you’re still using less than an average HT of 3-4

And I would believe most people bonusing are on gizer.

 

Some ideas, take these with a grain of salt:

1) Let's start by comparing how things were before rose garden:

Single client players at lv170:

APQ: ~70m/hr (still need to party)
Boss: ~0-100m/hr (still need to party)
Farm scrolls/npc equips: ~50m/hr

Mages:
Leeching: 100m-200m/hr (balanced by all the setup/commitment required)

Multi-mage:
200-300m/hr (balanced by the incredible setup/commitment required)

We can see that this content, which was targeted for the first group should have been balanced to similar income levels of that group.

Party-grinding or bossing requires setup/commitment so the rewards should be higher. However we see that the current rates for these are still only <100m/hr. So essentially RG should be <80m/hr in terms of raw income. Higher than early/mid game single client farming since this is 170+ content, lower than bossing or anything that requires finding a party.

RG was not designed for Mages to earn income at leeching levels, much less multi-mage farming levels. These income levels should be exclusive to those that are willing to put up with all the setup/commitment required - it's not for just anyone.

2/3) If we follow the reasoning from 1), then the content would already be balanced enough to not affect/overshadow any other content of Mapleroyals. However at this level, most people would not do RG just because most people would not have wanted to single-client grind mesos previously. To add incentive, we could add some untradeable grindable rewards, while keeping the raw meso/hr close to the first group. The actual untradeables - up to debate as I'm no expert on this topic but I think it shouldn't be something that affects current markets (like attack potions) since it just complicates things too much for now. The untradeable aspect gives incentive while not increasing the income/hr and not forcing people to prioritize this above all other content. I realize the Ifia ring is already a drop (but extremely rare?) - it might be better to make it a grindable thing which would incentivize people to run RG a lot more than betting on an extremely low chance and feel like they're wasting time (this is starting to sound like EPQ actually, and on a related note would adding some income/hr to EPQ help to revive it?)

4) The boss/box rewards are too high at the moment (average ~70m total value) so unless it's factored into the total meso/hr levels outlined above, it should be lowered. Can't comment on jackpot rates since I have no clue what the rate is, but as long as it's rare enough to not affect the average total value it should be fine, i.e. it shouldn't be something people farm for. An idea that may help is instead of having a huge jackpot (CS) at an abysmal rate, why not a smaller jackpot i.e. ~100m that occurs more often which would benefit more people instead of only a select few.

Edit:

On the opposite perspective, if the goal instead was to excite players in general with extremely high meso/hr content, then that in itself is fine too - as long as it's limited to appropriate levels i.e. 1-2 runs per week max. But then the problem becomes how to limit people running on multiple accounts - and I don't really have an answer to that.

 

Just change the bee bonus stage to 1 bee spawning every 1 min. You need to kill at least 10~20 mobs for a bee to spawn and every minute one despawn and a new spawns.

Everyone who kills 10~20 mobs (which should be fairly doable without any atk pots) gets 1 bee every min ( total of 30 bee's) or heck make it spawn every 2 minute ( total of 15 bees). But none the less it will be the same amount of bees for everyone and the meso income equal.

Also reduce the hp of the boss by at least 30% for physical attackers.

 

If we want a hard cap on the number of bees, could we not somehow limit the number of nets you can have/buy or some other method. So it'll still be somewhat more efficient (as it should be) for more geared attackers and they can finish faster in terms of time, but not actually earn too much. But then we also have to decide first what we want the cap to be.

 

Might be an unpopular opinion. Half the exp and limit the amount of bees you can catch to 10. It’s just too good for exp and money, I think it’s going to kill other content. A little bit of exp and mesos paired with the totems and chance to get a BIS ring should be enough incentive.

 

I like how RG solved half the issue with belt scrolling: it provided an easy way to farm totems

However, one issue still persists, farming burning energies. I feel one way to balance this is to make mini-golems have untradeable etc. and creating an exchange system.

With the exchange, being able to trade 1 stack of mini-golem etc for 100-200 burning energy would be a really great addition. At the moment, it is simply impossible for a NL to farm 100+ burning energies in the 30 minutes of the bonus stage (% drop, mobs are fast as hell, constantly having to flash jump..). Other alternatives like forming a golem party is extremely tedious to form, hence the addition of this content.

Pros:
-More people trying to farm belt etc and thus more activity with VL
-D tier RG jobs like NLs actually doing the bonus
-Less time wasted trying to form and farm burning energy via golemparties

Cons:
-Greater Demand for RG channels
-More inflation from those participating in bonus for burning energy

 

LHC farmer is prophet.

 

Spoiler: repetition of my post

I dont want to change that boss at all, I simply said they should not increase the time for mages but rather decrease the time for non-mages if they think they need to nerf mages in the boss fight. Because increasing the time for mages will reduce the amount of total runs the entire server can do per day and this is bad. Is it worth to make this content more limited for everyone just in order to f*ck mages for the only purpose of annoying them?

Secondly, I think this is completely pointless because it is only done to accomodate some players' subjective opinion that a mage is not allowed to do more damage to a boss than a non-mage. It has absolutely no balancing aspect and is a waste of dev time since in solo content, the competitve person complaining about the mage is actually THE VERY SAME PLAYER. It is the only boss content that singular mage players can enjoy so be carefull not to take this boss away from them. The real impact of this content is the bonus room, not 5 or 10 min more or less boss time (apart from making it less available for everyone in case of more).

The only option imo is to adjust the bonus room (apart from box content, aka cs), since as we all know this here is only about the mesos - if you want to nerf mages. That is what my comments said so I do not know why I should comment on that boss HP which I would not change at all.

I am not sure if I suggested this before but at least I wanted to. + this. On top I would limit the number of nets per IP, and by doing so the multi client farming would be balanced as well.

If you think about it, wouldn't that solve all the problems about this content all together?

 

Well then for the bonus. Just make it so every 10~ 15 mobs killed, a bee spawns and you got 1 min to catch it.
Max spawn 10-15-20 bee's.

Meaning we'll geared will kill faster, collect their max bee's and get out.
While normal geared will also get max bee's but will take alittle longer time.
Here's where mages still shine the best
But everyone get equal amounts just different times.

Also, still. Reduce the hp of the physical boss.
Makes zero sense whatsoever that a mage kills his boss at 5~min time while an actual average attacker is 20-26min + without pots...

 

I’m genuinely not sure this is possible. But an interesting idea.

I think it would be easier to implement “x” nets purchaseble per day, example: 15, so most people who can farm 20-25 .