In Discussion Content Rose Garden Nerf/Adjustments

i'm not very good at explaining but ill do my best but don't quote me on this

so, before rose garden was released, the only way to generate mesos on a large scale would be to NPC equips (maybe there's other ways but i can't think of any).

Generating mesos =/= earning mesos, they're not exactly the same.
for instance,

• a full inventory of ulu1 equips on a single character can generate on average 30m mesos because you are creating the 30m out of thin air by selling items to the npc, that 30m didn't exist in the economy before;
  
  
• while selling 3 onyx apples earns you 30m mesos and does not generate mesos because the mesos you earn from the sales already existed within the economy via being on another player, there's no increase in the volume of mesos in the economy, only the changing of ownership of that 30m..

Since rose garden mesos generation rate is comparable to what a multi mage farmer could generate, the volume of mesos that's being injected on a daily basis is staggering since everyone can generate an average volume of 150m mesos out of thin air (per character) whereby in the past, it was mostly only the 4-mage ulu / 6-mage pepe players that were generating mesos on that scale.

It's a very high possibility that this would lead to an inflation since abundance of something usually leads to that something losing value. For example, we can use a similar scenario, like right now, the only way to generate onyx apples would be to APQ right? What if rose garden rewarded 10 apples on average per bonus run? This would lead to apples losing their value. If mesos lose their value, it's only natural that the value of goods would go up in retaliation to the decreasing value of mesos.

 

If a country keeps printing money, more money, less value, inflation

rose garden gib meso, more meso, less value, inflation

 

What if we killed mage farming to control the level of inflation

 

Thank you for your explanation, but is this measure based on a simplified approach of an inflationary model in general or based on the economic models in Royals if any? At the moment, I think the benchmarks of inflation that we would look at would be the typical general items such as CS/WS/Onyx Apple/iTCG materials. How do we tell if our mesos has depreciated in value is more of the question that I am trying to understand. Looking at the market condition for the past months and so, I think we've been going through a deflationary period haven't we, I may be wrong don't quote me on this. Also, assuming we have mass meso injection, and there's a vast amount of mesos in the market now because of Rose Garden, my understanding on inflation is you have more disposable income hence your purchasing power goes up, you buy more things which depletes the supply in the market and pushing the demand of goods to go up. This would typically cause your "inflation" per se, since your demand exceeds your supply. What if no one buys anything to deplete the supply of w/e item in the market, and all the mesos generated are just sitting there doing nothing. e.g negative economic growth. What would happen then? Would this still be considered inflation? I may be wrong but inflation typically only happens when people actually buy stuff with their extra $$ and depleting the supply which causes the supplier/seller of such goods to raise prices to cope with the increased demand.

Thank you for your explanation, I was trying to add your quote to my previous reply to Sen but wasn't sure how but typically that is my response to my thoughts on inflation. Also, assuming there are more apples in the market with given scenario yes the prices would go down due to oversupply, but apples have a burning mechanism that they get consumed upon usage though, most players avoid tax by paying with ws/cs hence there's no proper meso/sink control there unfortunately... so well apples will eventually go back up in price once the supply depletes. Meso wise and how it's being calculated to the market inflation currently is still a mystery to me.

 

Well countries have debts and loans though. There's no debts and loans in royals, so maybe there's a difference in how it works.

 

I graduated from University of Mapleroyals, I know my royals economics

The server's economy is primarily player-driven, meaning that the prices of items and services are set by supply and demand.

Players can obtain mesos through a variety of methods, including completing quests, defeating monsters, and trading items with other players. The availability of mesos and the prices of items can fluctuate based on a number of factors, such as seasonal events, changes to game mechanics, and updates to the server's economy.

One of the key features of MapleRoyals economics is the existence of "merchants." Merchants are players who specialize in buying and selling specific items, often with the goal of making a profit. They may buy low and sell high, or engage in other strategies to increase their profits. Merchants can be seen as a kind of player-driven market maker, as they help ensure that there is always a supply of desirable items available for purchase.

In addition to merchants there is the nx system in which the playerbase uses for gachaponing, APRs, other cosmetic items to make their characters look cute.

Overall, MapleRoyals economics is a dynamic and player-driven system that is influenced by a variety of factors. The server's economy is largely driven by supply and demand, with players buying and selling items and mesos based on their own strategies and goals. The presence of merchants and the use of NX add additional layers of complexity to the server's economy, making it a fascinating and engaging aspect of the MapleRoyals experience.

 

It's based on a very general understanding of inflation. I'm not in the position to confirm or deny any claims of inflation or deflation in this thread, considering that I haven't even logged into the game in months. Unfortunately, most of your questions can only be answered with assumptions based on our understanding of player behavior and our experience in this server's economy--we assume players farming at Rose Garden causes a net increase in mesos in the economy; we assume players farming at Rose Garden are spending the mesos they earn; we assume this net increase in mesos as well as spending will cause in inflation. In light of all of these different factors, it's arguably too uncertain to declare that the current reward system of Rose Garden will be a detriment to this server (although it's also arguably certain enough to assume so). As always, much of this discussion could greatly benefit from data--collected both by members of the community as well as staff.

The intricacies of inflation are also a mystery to me and even to some of the world's most brilliant economists, and anyone who claims otherwise truthfully doesn't know what they're talking about.

 

Yes, we've been struggling a lot with deflation recently which might help with counteracting RG's meso printing. However, it's strong but there's a LOT of mesos in the economy so I think it'll take a while for the full effects to be felt. As for CS/WS/taru, keep in mind those are also printed by RG (cs directly, and all of them indirectly through totem drops), which should protect them somewhat from inflation. Apple demand has dropped since many people are running RG and just gizering it, so those are also protected.

I'd recommend looking at APRs and various 30% scrolls to track your meso value, although I'm not really sure what the best metric would be.

As for people not buying anything... if you give most high level players on the server 5b do you really expect them to not spend that? Some might be saving for specific goals but people will definitely start spending sooner or later. I personally dumped around 6b into APRs, mostly farmed from RG.

 

i just want to point out that there is a correlation between supply of certain goods/services (not all) and rose garden, if players feel that they can hit their daily target of gaining a certain amount of mesos through a better alternative such as rose garden, i'd assume that they would always choose the better alternative, resulting in the declining supply of said goods/services. who's gonna sell leech at 80m/hr when they can just rose garden for almost twice that amount? who's gonna apq for 8 measly apples per hour that's only worth 80m? so to me, it only makes sense that said services/goods would increase in price especially with all that extra mesos everyone can generate

I'm not sure if rose garden has any impact on the demand aspect though (maybe the demand of onyx apples would decrease if players would rather rose garden instead of boss to earn their mesos).

 

It's safe to assume that meso inflation is not a problem right now with the release of RG but I can guarantee you and even bet my entire net worth that this will be an extremely serious problem in the future if something is not done about it. CS/WS are hitting 400/410m respectively, apples are still below 9m, APRs are dropping more than usual, so I can understand how people don't see what the problem is right now. I just want to say that the number of people that are holding their mesos that they get from RG and other sources of income is quite a bit, including myself. I'm waiting to cash out on all my bcoins on cs/ws/others the moment I see that they've stopped dropping and I'm sure there are countless others that have this same mindset as me right now. When that time comes, I'm gonna call it out now, but it's not gonna be a pretty picture.

To put it into another perspective, take a look at this Chair Gacha thread from 2020: https://royals.ms/forum/threads/suggestions-for-the-chair-gachapon-event.169548/

"A total of 3,256,050,000,000 mesos was spent on Chair Gachapon, and 33,215 Gachapon Stamps were used."

3.25 trillion mesos is indeed A LOT of mesos sunk, but with how jam packed RG is and how many people do this to the point where people are camping channels to snipe maps, you can imagine the short time it will take for RG alone to regenerate that 3.25 trillion mesos. And also considering that Chair Gacha is only a 2 week event while RG will be out permanently, it's quite scary to think about the economy where anyone with a 170+ character can make this amount of mesos out of thin air.

I'm not really sure why everything is dropping in prices right now, but I can guarantee you that things will start rising again and when it does, it's gonna rise too fast to deal with.

 

I run on 2 characters a day. So far, I've gotten ~5b pure meso in the roughly 3 weeks it's been out (not counting the bugged day 1 gains). That's 650 people running casually to entirely negate ALL of chair gach in 3 weeks, or just around 38 people running it to counteract that 3.25T in one year. I'd guess as of now, there's a couple hundred, some going on one char, some running on many more than me.

Oh, and it'll likely just get worse as people gear up mages to farm it better.

 

I mean to be fair, most of our ideas are just based on assumptions of w/e information that we have currently. I feel like reducing rewards or what not, is just a short-term band aid solution to the total amount of meso that already presently exists in the economy anyway. Regardless if RG gets a nerf, then multi mage client meso farming becomes the superior method, there is still meso being injected by this method of farming anyway.

We can't entirely conclude that multi mage farming causes a slower meso injection than RG because realistically how many people do we know that actually multi mage farm? There's simply insufficient data to suggest otherwise to make a conclusive opinion. Regardless meso injection still occurs and there's presently no actual proper meso sink/burning mechanism in this game currently to control that meso circulation out there. Everyone pays with cs/ws to avoid taxes that are incurred from expensive purchases. Let's be real, how many people actually pay 26b in B coins for a perfect RC?

I'm not saying that there aren't people who don't pay entirely with B coins but most people would prefer to pay with cs/ws that defeats the whole purpose of the taxation of 1B meso in the first place that is implemented to remove meso out of circulation.

I may be wrong but it feels like we have a meso sink problem rather than a meso injection problem.

 

Are the rewards not directly comparable to multi-mage farming, meaning if you were to nerf RG then nerf multi-mage as well? way more accessible. no cooldown. no gear req's other than level up.

 

they did nerf multi mage farming though, by removing the ability to have mages' ultis in the in-game macro and nerfing ulu1 (i think they changed either the droprate or the amount of spawns in ulu1). Also, multi-mage farming is way more tiring and requires much more effort for it to be efficient when compared to RG.

 

One does not preclude the other. It seems very probable that both are happening.

There's nothing wrong with deflationary pressures in an economy like Royals anyway. It's not like there are investments and growth.

 

That doesn't exactly nerf the amount of mesos coming in from multi-mages, it just increases the amount of inputs required. RG is not exactly multi-boxable, and you may have to wait for a channel. Multi-mages can farm(injecting the same raw mesos if not more) while they wait for RG. multi-mage farming again has no cooldown and can be farmed all day while RG is limited to once a day per character. with that said of RG not exactly being multiboxable, how is the amount of effort a factor in why it should be nerfed? (amount of time put in or amount of inputs required is your issue?)

 

Well, have you tried farming on 4-mage ulu / 6-mage pepe? I can easily do multiple characters rose garden without tiring out, i can hardly do 1 hour of multi mage farming before i wanna kill myself.

 

I echo with the sentiment that pure meso reward is an issue. I think the bee etcs should only be exchangeable for items instead of raw mesos.

I think one of the goals of RG might have been to allow a solo attacker to gather resources to craft VL items or scrolls (?). And that includes mesos. Perhaps consider changing the requirements of crafting to alternatively use bee etc, instead of allowing bee etc to be sold directly for mesos. In addition, perhaps allow the swapping of bee etcs for rose garden boxes. Another way might to change the etc drop from bee etc to totems. The totems can be used for LHC gach.

 

sounds more like some sort of personal gripe, as many people multi-mage farm all day no problem every day. Imagine if mage farming is removed and RG is the only main way raw mesos is coming into the game in bulk, it's still not as much as mages can and do produce daily. you're making pressing one button and moving a character sound extremely taxing. Why are you ignoring the other ways mesos come into the game after a new method accessible to newer players to have a small taste of mage farming mesos. Have you considered just adding more meso sinks? What about chair gacha being year-round or adding more meso gacha's for cosmetics. If were talking about economics then we need to address all other avenues the economy is being affected as well. Cherry picking specific scenarios that effect yourself doesn't count.

 

New tradeable QT Nx items in limited quantities or low rates to obtain to create a larger market pretty please (prob not going to happen but I had to ask!)! Step up the game on RP NX to compensate! (But from what I see the new RP items are QT for sure so +1).