Community Blacklist

Ahh yeah, Ok youre right. I still stand by my opinion that the shop stuff should be blacklistable. If we add bundle scams i think this stuff should be as well.

The dagger seller guy should be blacklisted even more when you add in the ign impersonation and how he used it for scummy fm shop behavior

 

1. IGN: BlueField
2. Reason: Fame Scam
He was messaging "B>fame". I famed him and then traded him. I watched him leave fm. I /find'd him and met him in Hene. After confirming my name he said "one sec let me check" to where he promptly logs off.
3. Details: I included screenshots of the initial attempt to fame and me finding him in hene and confronting him.

 

I bought fame from him earlier and he payed, maybe he just have connection issues.

 

I have been messaging him as he continues to log in and message "B>FAME". he is ignoring me or avoiding me every time....

 

Weird.
I bought fame and went first and everything went fine.
Guess he decided to start scamming.

 

If someone is selling "a fake perfect weapon" in their store for such a cheap price, whether or not it's blacklistable (knowing the obvious intention of selling such an item), they're still free to post it here to expose it to others, which is good in my opinion. Since then, it's up to your personal judgment as to whether it's okay to do it or not.

 

Too add on to this line of thought, I do agree partially. But the only thing this seller has technically done wrong is put in a questionable price. Anything further is speculation on the sellers intentions and conjecture. Think for yourself and double check the shit you're buying. Especially when it's 2B Mesos.

 

I agree with this statement.

Does it suck that person lost 2b meso due to a misinterpretation, yes.

However, the seller did not explicitly advertise it was perfect.
Especially with transactions that are in the billions, I expect the buyer to tread carefully.

The ramifications for blacklisting people for egregious prices could have unintended consequences.

 

If it's just a one-time thing, whether it's a fake perfect, a 0-slot item, or a mispriced bundle, I agree that you can't know for sure if it's an honest mistake or misunderstanding. But if it happens consistently, it's obvious what they're trying to do.

Everyone keeps focusing on "yeah but you have to be so careless to fall for this", but honestly the blacklist isn't about victims, it's about whether we can trust a player or not. I wouldn't trust someone who scams careless people because it reveals that they don't care about playing fairly with other people in this game. It's the same as the guy who sniped that drop trade- it's a stupid thing to drop trade items of that value but I still don't trust the guy who profited off that stupidity.

I also expect buyers to be careful. But I also want to know which players are trying to make a business out of profiting this way. If they keep listing items like that over and over, the number of plausible explanations for why it's being priced that way start to narrow quickly, even if they don't advertise it using the store name.

No one is suggesting blacklisting for egregious prices- it's for listing a useless item that is made to look very similar to a valuable item at a price that can cause a player to confuse the two as they're scrolling through owl results. If it was a clean 105 attack weapon priced at the same price a 110 attack weapon would be, there'd be no issue. It's that they're trying to make it look as much as possible like the real thing.

Would you really trust a player who does this kind of thing on a regular basis to hold a position of responsibility in your guild, or to borrow your gear? I think a lot of players wouldn't, which is why it at least deserves a mention here.

 

I agree with this take. My main hesitation would be the possibility that the player intentionally set the price at max mesos to ironically flex their dumpster gear rather than to maliciously lure other players into a bad purchase. But the fact that this player is clearly impersonating another player while setting up this store certainly doesn't support their innocence.

 

I can understand your point and it deserves a mention. I can understand if a person's store is full of stuff like that, or if they are repeat offenders, then yes I understand where you are coming from.


However, let me ask you a question. If you have an item that you want to sell, but have nothing to directly compare it do (nothing in owls or price guides), what do you do?
You could make a price checking post that may or may not get a reply but, the majority of what people do is find an equivalent item and roughly match its price.

Even Sylafia's guide doesn't have an entry for clean OR scrolled.



I have seen scrolled items be 10% more in price compared to their equivalent clean versions. It is a more common occurrence than you think.

I would agree with your argument a lot more if there was a more up-to-date, more fleshed out price guide.
Heck, if some people are willing to do a free market census, I wouldn't mind picking a channel to collect data.

But, for now, I can see it as a seller that cannot correctly price due to the lack of information.

 

I didn't claim he did anything technically wrong; it just seems sketchy enough, and yeah, it just seems like a loophole to attempt to make easy meso without risking being blacklisted or punished for taking advantage of people who aren't paying enough attention, just like bundle shop scamming isn't reportable either. I wouldn't personally trust a person who did this; it just makes you seem like a sketchy person in my eyes, that's all.

 

I would argue that the pricing of end-game weapons (clean, scrolled, or partially-scrolled) is fairly well known, within a margin of error due to price changes over time. Even if an exact price isn't known, you can use data points from similar items to narrow it down.

For example, lets look at the two items in question:
Dragon Shiner Bow 103ATK (+7atk from scrolls)
Dragon Kanzir 103ATK (+7atk from scrolls)

Syl's guide obviously doesn't have a price for either of these absurd items, but we can see that a clean 103 shiner is 60m, and this can be corroborated with a forum post from 2021 valuing it at 70m. I think it's reasonable to expect that people will know that a 100% scrolled item is worse than a clean one, so even accounting for market changes it shouldn't be worth more than 100m. Similarly, you can find forums posts by searching for "103 kanzir" or "104 kanzir" to conclude that a clean one won't be worth much more than 50m.

There might be some niche gear like lukmage items that have poor price information, but scammers are very unlikely to make money off of those items since the turnover is so low.
Remember, this kind thing is only a potential scam if an item is made and priced to look very similar to a valuable one. I can really only see it being an issue for endgame weapons who have a very well known perfect clean dps number, or for failed 0-slot items whose values are obviously much lower than the clean price which is almost always known or guessable in the same way as above.

 

I see your point, especially if it's gear exclusive to end-game bosses.
So what you are saying is there is a line where something is considered price scamming.

If we do go down that route of considering actions blacklist worthy, where would the line be drawn?
A line needs to be drawn or you are going to get complaints like selling a scrolled Esther Shield the same as a clean.

My thoughts would be either meso value (like over 1b) or a certain point in the game (Horntail or later).

But I digress. If it is the person's first time doing something like that, like you said, it is hard to tell if it is an honest mistake or not. The situation is inconclusive until there are more reports. Maybe blacklist probation is in order lol

Side note: Just finished a trade where they cited the Syl's guide. We need an update since it's an invaluable resource.

 

I think Esther shield is a bad example since a scrolled one will always have some matk and a clean one will have only INT, so it's very hard to confuse the two. Something like an overall might be easier because the natural stat and scroll are the same. But I understand the concern that this logic could be extended out and it may be hard to draw the line.

I've been thinking about why the "perfect weapon" scam was effective enough to catch someone, and I think it's a combination of a few factors:
- Perfect weapons have a well-known maximum clean attack, and there are always people looking for them
- Even though the weapon is worth more than 2B, it's not unusual to see very valuable perfect weapons for sale for max mesos as a flex, because they can't be bought if the seller is holding enough mesos
- If the seller is not careful, they may put an item up for max mesos but have it still be purchasable
- Because of the above factors, some players may occasionally try to buy max meso items in hopes the seller made a mistake, not really expecting it to go through, and thus not taking proper precautions

It's not surprising this works sometimes, because many real-life scams are based on making the victim think they're "getting one over" on someone else, like a 3-card monte.

I think one of the main ways the community will be able to tell the difference between scammers and innocent players is the player's willingness to return the mesos once the mistake is noticed.

 

From what I personally interpret on the blacklist thread function, it's mainly to bring attention to a specific player character's bad conduct.
So in the future other players could reference the list and decide if they would like to continue engaging with the listed characters at their own risks and judgement.

Thus, the impact from blacklisting characters involved in leech scams, boss run shenanigans, harassment, toxicity have more weight to it

• Cases are mostly clear cut who's in the wrong with a clear perpetrator and victim(s)
  
• More than likely the offending characters are what the player mainly use and play on
• Offending character has a higher chance of facing the consequences of being shun by others, or remedy their conducts accordingly in the future

Store scams listing lacks such weight

• It takes two wrongs for a "store scam" to happen:
  - Seller listing mistaken/inappropriate/misleading price and/or items
  - Buyers purchasing under the impression of getting a good deal without properly reviewing the available information
  
• Seller circumstances are dubious unless they are repeating offense on different separate occasions on the same character
  
• Engagement is purely transactional
  
• Quite possibly the store characters are not what the player mainly use, if it is not the main character there is no meaningful actionable consequences on the character

So. rather than blacklist a potentially offending character to bring attention to that specific character.
It may be more useful to take it as an awareness that such store scams will happen if players are not being careful and diligent in their shopping trips.

By all means continue to post/report absurd misleading store listing here, perhaps us readers will be educated what's the latest hot and trending store scam item.

 

First off, we can't compare these max mesos shitter items to a bundle scam because 9,999 and 99,999 or 999,999 can be mistaken very easily when buying lots quickly. This you cannot.. You literally have to look at everything (attk, slots, etc) before you move forward with the transaction as its 2b+
My issues with what you say @pragmasarus is that you've already assumed the seller is a scammer, regardless of why they do this. For example, i constantly have in the past put shitter items in stores at outrages prices, and not because i expect anyone to buy it (because its that dog shit) but to show off how meme-worthy that item is. But you have labeled the guy a scammer, regardless of why he is actually doing it. Why he's doing it? I guess we won't know unless he says something. You say its hard to compare a clean shield to one with INT, but its also hard to compare a perfect weap that has +7 in its title with its clean damage before scrolls. It should really not be that hard to double check price + attk + slots before hitting buy on something of that price.

For these things through the store, you have the TIME to sit there and look at everything before hitting buy. No one is there pressuring you or waiting for you to hit TRADE to hurry up.

 

I still think it’s pretty sketchy for someone to 100% scroll and ruin a 60m weapon to make it same stat as a clean perfect one, why else would you do that, if not for attempting sell it as one? Honestly that’s just how I see it. Its not even stupid since it apparently works. To clarify, I only compared this to bundle shop scamming in terms of it being a loophole for possibly getting away with. In the end of the day it’s your own fault for not double checking.

On the same note, none should be selling a perfect kanzir or a DSB with such a low price to begin with, only by a mistake (which we’ve seen happen before) anyways the low price should make u twice as alerted and make sure you double check the still very expensive item you’re thinking of merching

Also there’s some difference between a total shitter meme item with outrageous price and an attempt to imitate a perfect clean weapon.

 

The more people try and explain ways the dagger seller may have been just showing off the crappy dagger just makes me more certain they put it up to steal money.

There is infact a huge difference

2B for say, a level 10 thief claw or someone that +7 100% scrolled a level 100 2h axe are meme items. 2B for a highly sought after, very popular and very commonly sold item that was scrolled +7 that now is 110 atk mixing in with all the other Daggers listed is at minimum someone playing with fire and at worse someone intentionally trying to manipulate an item to appear like all the other daggers for sale to get easy money. I still hold the opinion even if i accept no malice on the players part, the person was negligent enough to put a meme item up that also happened to be of one of the most popularly sought after weapons is blacklistable to me. Youre just asking for someone to accidently buy your meme which someone did in this case.

I completely agree that the buyers have a duty to pay attention to whats sold, but so do the sellers on what they sell.

 

It reminds me that back in the day someone sold a 7 def 0 slot fs for 2b in his shop, nothing came out of it.
I see no harm in ruining a 60m item for the laughs, but i will say, him impersonating another player does change the perspective.
A bunch of times i used to have in my shop 8 tma earrings for like 2b for the meme, i see no harm in putting meme offers there