In Discussion Content Rose Garden Nerf/Adjustments

Of course I'm still doing RG, it's quite good still. Quit on my pally because I decided I just... don't like pally mobbing and no time anymore.

Still easily 200m/hr+ for casual single client play and it's fun to run

 

Lol me also was doing daily RG with 3-4 chars for 3 months at event, but when event over and last nerf i quit not anymore thank you.

 

21 min bonus 4 bees. /RG out

 

I havent seen the ring in like close to 2 months now

 

I don't see how it's easily 200/hr for a casual player, im 190 Pally with 40 cgs and I gotta apple the boss so it's basically 90m/35~40 minutes run (i'd say average 35), depends on my rng.

And as i said earlier, it still feels so bad because your luck there literally yields you nothing once you know you're capable of reaching the cap with decent bee spawns.

I think just by reading the comments in the thread you can clearly see that for the average player this nerf was way too much and the content is pretty much dead.

I feel like, similar to the "handling goods above 5b" rule, this nerf was made for the extreme cases, of people with perfect gear running with 3-4 chars and making billions easily. However, there is a grey area.. this is where most of the frustration is coming from. I hope the staff wil address this somehow.

 

Reading @Rielle statement I assume RG is working as intended and all bad runs is just RNG.
4 bees/21min
7 bees/ 24min
Etc etc list goes on.

 

500m/rg run for a 20cgs noob. I don't see a nerf @.@

 

For the rings, maybe we can trade bees for 1 ring? 30 bees to enter a map with a treasure chest which drops 1 ring. The ring is the same as dropping from the boss in terms of godly roll.

 

With lower gear of course it'll be less. I believe shads are the best attacker for this content too, so there'd need to be some targeted nerf to them (potentially a 2nd map nerf? IDK how that'd affect other classes) to bring things more in line with balance.

Between April 28th and May 25th I ran 21 times on Paladin, averaging 18 bees. We can think of this as the pre-nerf values, since it doesn't include anniversary 1.3x or anything. My totems were 53/run on average (I'd guess true value was 50/run). Nx is 3500 on average, or 10.5m valuing at 1:3

My post-nerf rates of bees should be the exact same, except capping each run at 20. My post-nerf rates of totems should be halved, and I'll value totems at 800k for this. NX seems unchanged.

Accounting for that, I should post-nerf, be getting 26.5 totems (down 26.5 = 21.2m less) and 17.4 bees (down 0.6 = 3m/run). That means the total run value went from 142.9m to 118.7m, or a 17% total decrease in profit.

For a pretty unfunded attacker (39 cgs, 142 skull, 20 shield) that's very much not optimized for RG (skull has a HEAVY si dependency: 19% dmg buff from SI, which I don't get in RG), and using cheap pots (I was using 2 peppermints/run, for maybe 4m total cost), that's still >175m/hr from single client casual farming, and most of the nerf isn't actually from bee spawns, but instead it's from the lessened amount of totems.

Also, RG is most certainly NOT dead. I've had times where all 20 channels are full. I've often had to search 5 channels to find an opening. It's clearly still profitable and worth doing, and my data proves that.

That being said, I do agree the cap feels bad, and I personally don't think it's actually the best way to nerf RG. As far as I know, I'm the only person gathering hard data about RG, or at least the only one willing to share summaries of it. Sadly, I only have 2 chars that can run which limits what I can test. I think ideally the content is changed to target nerf the high-performing classes while mostly leaving the weaker classes alone, but it's hard to tell exactly how strong each class is currently, besides generally knowing that mages, shads, and maybe heros/DKs are the best farmers of this.

There's also a whole other discussion of "should Rose Garden even be farming content?", where I'd say no it shouldn't, but ultimately that decision is up to the dev team and their vision of RG

 

Rope speed change just made map 1 much better for F/P!

 

Curious to know if the aforementioned changes to Rose Garden were still planned to be implemented or if the plans have been scrapped. Any update from Matt? It's been well over the two week time span (two and a half months).

Post here

 

First time running it post-nerf:

character: 186 hero 37 cgs 129 st
used: 16 stoppers, 1 apple
time: 26.5 min run
event: ~1000 ppl online 1.1x drop?

loot:
-25 totems
-6k nx
-0 drops
-20 bees

profit: 135m @ 305m/hr

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All in all I have to say it feels so much better now:

- new rope speed buff + previous mount buff makes farming a breeze/a lot more fluid
- cap on bees allows earlier finish, no more dreading a full 40min grind
- no more massive FOMO due to the cap, I can skip if I want
- meso rate still insane, makes it feel worth


Thanks staff for the ongoing tweaks and adjustments.

 

Could we maybe add the bee spawn announcement to chat as well? same as the "no more bees" announcement. when 2 bees spawn right after the other it's harder to see, and if you're afk for a minute you gotta scout the entire map. just a QoL change imo

 

Remove the top center platform as spawn point and waiting point for the Bees in Room 1 (Frozen Roses room). At times, you can barely see the bee spawning/waiting there and from my experience results in missing bees because I search both sides and end up missing the top spawn since I can't see the bee on the platform.

 

Give RG boss card +50% drop rate in RG and set the chance of a card dropping to 15-25%. Gives some people "lucky" days for 1.5x faster run.

 

GG

 

Thank you @Matt, the changes definitely make Rose Garden more interesting as mentioned.

 

Ring boxes are huge and I'd be buying all I could get if I didn't luckerdog into my 6666 one. Great addition

RG still top-tier content tho, I continue to be baffled by those who say it sucks

 

Shiny Onyx Apple

Spoiler

Ifia's Ring Box

Spoiler

 

I like the recent changes to RG, more specifically, the ability to obtain high WA pots through exchanging flower powder. I think its great for everyone.

With that said, i'd like to point out a slight paradox in the exchange rates.

The exchange rate is 6 flower powders + 1 apple for a 125 att pot, which means you are exchanging 30m + an onyx apple for a 125 att pot, but if you sell the flower powders instead of exchanging them, the mesos you get from them could be used to purchase one demon elixer, and on top of that, you don't lose your apple.

So it's either you end up with
A) one 125 att pot
B) one 140 att & one 100 att pot


From @fuzzything44 price guide.