In Discussion Class/Skill [Feedback Request] Skill Changes and Balancing

Was advised to make this suggestion today after my summons caused much nuisance in auf, so I'm boosting it

 

Honestly, the largest class balance issue right now is Shadower.
Specifically, the DPS rate.
Please reduce the Attack % of Assassinate and B-step as soon as possible.
Don't change the avoid, don't change Smoke Screen, don't change ANYTHING else—just the attack %.
That is all.

 

I got smoked by @tazan

Give my snipe some sort of scaling.

Isn’t it weird game design for the core 4th job skill to become useless because I invested too much into my character

 

I'd say Bucc is just as broken, just less popular, especially on lower funding.
If we look at VL which is the endgame boss - Shad will be best at clearing Gargoyles (3 targets + main boss), while Bucc will be best at clearing anything above 4 targets.
Their single target DPS is about the same.
What are warriors best at? nice joke.
Shads and Buccs are the "real" warriors of Royals, they leave DRK/Hero/Pally with almost no purpose.
That's kinda silly because they also have the better utility (TL/SI/corkscrew/smokescreen).
The only utility DRK/Hero can provide is easily replaceable by a Bishop.

I don't know if the solution is to straight up nerf Shad/Bucc %, maybe its just buffing warriors.

 

I second this highly since I got low ping and also because it glitches with my Purple Beret , it turns invisible whenever I come out of dark sight to use Assassinate.

 

Haro guys, i want to share something about class balance.
I heard people saying about shad OPOP ... but did people realize that 1-2years ago?!?

I'll suggest buffing warrior / archer classes main skill %, and make pally / bucc's 199,999 got uncapped too ( this is a must , see the end game pally clearing krex Right eye slower than Hero is really beyond me )


Growth Curve
I had been a noob shad with low attack CGS set and poor untradeables, i didnt feel im stronger than any other class even a BM / MM
just thief classes perform better when with ~mid-high - end game gears, their true damage could be shown.
I believe "Thief classes" are born to have more damage in the old GMS , therefore we should have kept this tradition !?

Hense nurfing shad is not the best solution, if we plan to release stronger Boss in the future (e.g PB , Chaos Zak , Chaos HT ) having more dps on every class is definitely more useful imo
( or we would just end up with nerfing the BOSS max hp again and again )

Direction
So the buffing could be where the class supposed to be shine , like Dk / Hero in CWK , maybe buff their % when doing more targets ( also helps when VL mobbing and further bossing too )
And for the archer classes ... I'm not familiar with them , need pro BM / MM to share some opinions

 

*cough* Could also re-enable Rush in Auf and make Warriors not struggle to hit Royal Guard as mentioned in my Neo Tokyo thread *cough*

 

Warrior buff, that's all. nerfing shad is not the case, you can nerf shads but warriors will still be left behind.
who would make a hero knowing that all he probably gonna do in the game is zak/cwk/scarga?
sometimes when i dojo, its easy to notice how declined warriors are, they dont add any buff nor dps compared to any other class in the game.
I dont think rage should stack with att pots, or any other party buff, just make brandish att % higher, maybe even work out a system that brandish does higher att % to 1 target and to balance it when its 3 targets or something.

 

That's a bug with the beret, not a skill bug. You should make a thread in the report bug section. I believe a few other berets have the same issue.

 

https://royals.ms/forum/threads/beret-hat-becomes-invisible-when-using-assassinate.226101/

 

bucc and shad were originally amongst the least popular attacking classes for bosses prior to their changes made on this private server. Their original buffs were to make them more relevant and promote class balance and playability. Which succeeded, but over a long period of time it has been made apparent that these changes created a new meta that sprouted a new problem.

I think only buffing other classes in this instance is technically more work than just tweaking already made changes. Widespread changes to multiple classes can create more issues, which would take an even longer period to repair if done incorrectly. They were overturned and the simplest solution to overturning is slightly tuning it down, finding a balanced common ground. Since this is a private server with volunteer development and design, changes come far and in between, so the community cements any changes in their playstyle over a long period of time. This makes the community resent any nerfs even if they are needed, because it has become meta. It's a tough pill to swallow.

Those less popular classes do deserve some slight changes to promote playability and balance among them. But the issue with Shadower right now is that it is too good at everything in the game. New content for those less-played classes won't fix it, because Shadower is just too strong in multi and single-target situations.

The top three Classes right now are NL, Bucc, and Shadower.
The major difference here is that by design, NL and Bucc give/need supporting skills to/from other party members. Smoke Screen does support other classes, but Shads also benefit greatly, thus just wanting to be with more Shads. This makes Shads able to solo everything, or team with more Shads. I feel that a slight decrease in the attack % of Assassinate and B-step will open up opportunities for Shads to team with other DPS classes. Specifically Corsairs! Corsairs are top dps only in ideal conditions that do not break ship, require dodging, and benefit from SI/SE. But Smokescreen alleviates those major hurdles and allows Corsair to shine, which is currently one of the least-played classes on the server. Shadower doesn't need to be a support class, you can continue to solo content with % attack decrease, but it does provide some utility in the form of primary seduce target and smokescreens for parties, so it won't lose its playability/purpose.

Increasing Smoke Screen uptime could further balance this Attack % decrease, further promoting the use of other classes in parties with shads that don't rely on avoid or stance. Another addition can be allowing B-step to be affected by SE at a higher rate or damage, thus making the entire party benefit from SE.

My ideal goal in class balancing is to see most bossing situations compromised of both Support and DPS classes as the meta, but any one member is replaceable and allows the party to form many different combinations with similar DPM over time.

 

But the question is still lying there, would players choose to make Hero if shadower is nerfed, or paladin or dark knight even corsair
If the nerf is to make the game staying in the same situation, the whole environment is just stopped there and not moving forward,
and the same issue again, after new contents are released, those unpopular classes would still stay unpopular.

Innovation comes after destruction, i believe buffing dmg % on specific classes is a better solution ( but the change needs to be significant )
Also we need to collect users opinions ( e.g. 20 hero / pally mains' feeling will all kinds of content ) , and if those mains still not recommanding others to join , then it could be adjusted more, slowly but surely.
=> I rejoined in late March of 2021 , shad wasn't that popular back then
=> We need more players to approve that those unpopular classes are playable / enjoyable after buff
=> If those classes become more enjoyable, those weapons on different classes would be more valuable too

I respect if a class really requires a nerf , problem is ... even it's no longer NL / Shad story, the majority player is still not going to make a new Warrior class, does it really help?
Btw im not targeting on Hero , it is a good class ... just we need more love on it = =

 

The true appeal of shadower isn't damage, it's quality of life. Give warrior stance 95%, give BM/MMs a way to hold their ground, give corsair ships more hp (edit: I'm going to retract this one, I don't know enough about corsairs to have an opinion. Give it something, I guess), these classes will be played more.

Everyone out here talking about shadower dps when they literally get perfect evasion for 90 seconds x shadower count + 900 avoid.

You know what NL/bucc/shad has in common? It doesn't get hit as much as other classes.

 

You guys might be on to something here with annoyance.

I played a bm on gms for 2+ years from 2009-2011 and two diffefent bms for 3 years combined on Royals. Ive logged a lot of hours on this class. Ive always loved bms and no matter how good or bad or annoying it is to play ill always love it.

With that being said. I did my first Royals cwkpq on my bm recently, and there has been very few things ive had less fun doing than the final cwkpq stage pinning Margana. Being constantly knocked back by the pirate guy was beyond infurriating. The NL who was pinning him dodged or avoided like 90% of his attacks he could have been afk or watching anime for all i know, he barely moved. I had to constantly readjust my character every 5 seconds and did it for two runs. I couldnt imagine doing cwkpq everyday as a bm like some people do, it feels masochistic. I know this is one example for one class, but I think ontop of some balance issues its another reason why people prefer the 3 most common top classes right now. Theyre strong and also the least annoying to play.

Im not asking for anything specific to be changed id rather people who have better grasps on the classes i dont play, to give their feedback than muddy the waters with my own. Just thought id chime in about annoyance.

 

Not only do they get hit way less, but they also offer the highest DPS regardless of whether they get hit or not. Which is the major issue I pointed out.

I much rather see players using Smokescreen to benefit from having low-avoid or no-stance instead of making all classes never get hit. Let's stay away from just making this server Post-Big Bang when we came to it for Pre-Big Bang gameplay and content. And avoid coming full circle with past failed adjustments (Avoid nerf). We already have the core framework to balance the game, not much more needs to be done. Just slight tweaks and adjustments can do it, not entirely new skills and playstyles.

Next time you run CWKQ @Enticing, Swap with the NL and use Puppet on the Pirate boss while the NL kills Morgana. Once Morgana is dead you both focus on Pirate, but on opposing sides of him. It's a much faster run, and less annoying.

 

paladins : get in line

 

If the goal is to promote the unpopular classes, I rather see new content that suits those classes (or skill buffs) than just flat nerfs to the popular classes forcing people to choose the latter. Tbh, I don't even think nerfing the dps will get you end result that you want. I agree with Meng on this and I think people are still going to play those 3classes unless the nerfs are so drastic that it makes the class unplayable(which isn't the right move either).

People need to realize that this server draws elements from preBB, but it isn't the true preBB experience. The fact that we can multi-client on this server already makes it a totally different game. A healthy mmorpg needs new content to make player base interested in the game. Can you imagine if they didn't introduce NeoTokyo and LHC? I'm pretty sure most of us would've already quit the server. I personally think LHC content was a great addition to the game that brought new found interested in the game. I would love to see more unique content like this in the future.

Lastly, with any class balance changes, I think staff should select members of the community who main those classes to test those changes. This can help make sure those changes are properly implemented.

 

Okay, but shadowers aren't going to suddenly want corsairs in runs just because they do a little less damage, which is what appears to be your approach on this matter from what I gathered by the following:

How do you see this going? Shadowers now do 10% less total DPS. They suddenly turn their 4 man runs into 5 mans with the splits that it entails, just to have an added DPS? Or they turn their 4 smokes into 3, and eat the considerably reduced smoke time and flexibility in arms rushing? Or they just run 5 minutes longer?

Like sure by all means, if you want to decrease shadower DPS because you think it's broken and overtuned go for it, but it's not going to achieve the result you want, which seems to be varied class representation. You can only really do that by making people want to play those classes. Ask why corsair is the least-played class on the server, because it isn't the lack of DPS.

I really don't think damage is what's incentivizing most players in choosing their classes, because the vast, vast majority of the playerbase (which if I may venture to say might be a very different demographic than who is represented on a thread like this) simply play the class they want to play. Therefore make other classes more fun to play. Because it wasn't the lack of DPS people were F3ing at me about when they told me as I made a new BM that I wouldn't take it to attack in HT twice.

 

I’ve read like Mr. Karens corsair guide like three times so I think my opinion outweighs yours personally /s

I think we shouldn’t limit members of the community who main said classes to test changes but get a general feedback from as many players as possible.

• Those who have reached late game gearing/content
• Those who like to play the class casually/comfortably
• Those who have interests but they may have a factor or two that influences them to not play said class.

There’s already too many people with their head up their asses. If said people were selected they’d inflate their egos even more and think they were a god gamer, basically staff, or even better and more valuable than the staff themselves with their enormous brain and avid fanbase that thirsts for their next feedback thread forum post.

Or cry that they weren't selected and cutietoronto39 was selected over them because the GMs are thirsty/have a hidden agenda against them/or whatever coping mechanism

 

But cutietoronto39 is a legend in this community!