Forum Over moderation and annoyance to the community

Discussion in 'Closed' started by Donn1e, Jan 18, 2024.

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  1. Dave Deviluke
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    Dave Deviluke Forum Moderator

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    I Liked the post cause it proved my point, the irony of certain irrelevant posts would be acceptable

    The same irony can also be applied to you, you mentioned in shoutbox that you firmly believe I have power-tripped on the matter

    But when I asked you whether Donn1e's comments about sparky are relevant or acceptable on the thread, you couldn't give a "yes/no" but only a "IDK", doesn't this seem biased?
    You are comfortable with pointing out that I have indeed over-moderated but when I asked your view on the removed comments, you won't give a stance on it
     
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  2. itu
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    itu Well-Known Member

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    that's not what I said you snake, I gave you my opinion once you insisted

    im literally not part of this show but goddamn you are bad at your job
     
  3. Dave Deviluke
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    Dave Deviluke Forum Moderator

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    You have already made up your mind about this, thinking I am bad at my job

    And you did reply with "IDK" when I asked you on the matter
    (other Staff would be able to check the logs too, I am not twisting words or narrative to fit my agenda)
     
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  4. Valzer
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    Valzer Donator

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    The fact that you liked a comment personally attacking the person who opened this thread,
    Then you can't stop chasing Donnie's threads (Ban appeal, Abuse report about you),
    Then "proving" that you are right with multiple comments in this thread, liking everything that fits your narrative,
    Then continuing to make this post a "shit" post with most of your comments is not addressing the issue,
    This is the definition of a power trip.

    Personally, I think that this issue went way too far, the fact that other staff went ahead and reverted the ban decision speaks volumes.
    Overall I think you do a great job, and moderation should be issued if the topic of the thread is not being addressed, which wasn't the case in the comment that created all of this mess.
     
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  5. Dave Deviluke
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    Dave Deviluke Forum Moderator

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    Liking comments doesn't mean anything, it can be signs of approval or just find it funny
    (as mentioned above, for me is due to the proving of the irony)

    I have reverted the comments and not issue WP until flame war occurs (as per Donn1e request), but you still think it's a power trip
    How far are we gonna go with these double standards?

    Why is it okay to shitpost about Sparky (irrelevant comment on Feedback), but not okay when someone else does the same thing on Donn1e?
     
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  6. Relmy
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    Relmy Donator

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    haha, no es que yo sea el adalid de la "latinoamericanidad" o algo por el estilo, pero aun asi me sorprende ver esta bandera involucrada en opiniones de estos temas. de nuevo no suelo ni decir "gringos" ni "nosotros los latinos" mucho, pero este es el tipo de dramas que pense q a los latinos, especialmete a los peruanos es de los que hace decir "los gringos y sus huevadas", haha solo quería mencionarlo, en lo personal todo el tema me parece bastante idiota, y aqui un grupo de gente tratando de argumentar, que si, parecen opiniones inteligentes, pero con un tema tan estúpido como este es fácil hacer eso, bueno tal vez tengas algo contra Dave, eso tambien lo entenderia (no lo comparto ya que no tengo ningun sentimiento hacia el ni bueno ni malo) repito me sorprende una opinion de un peruano que no sea "que bola de cojudos csm" respecto a todo esto(empezando con el/la que empezo el thread, que es un/una cojudo/a de matricula XD)
     
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  7. Dave Deviluke
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    Dave Deviluke Forum Moderator

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    Also a reminder for the mentioned points - many over-moderation + waves of frustration
     
  8. tazan
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    tazan Well-Known Member

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    I think it's outlined in the very first post, and I also think you've purposely allowed the thread to deviate from the original post so you're going to end up locking it or having to mass delete

     
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  9. Valzer
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    Liking comments means you agree with what is being said, what is being said is a personal attack that has nothing to do with the game.

    You reverted the comments after a few hours when other staff were involved, and if they weren't involved then you just decided to remove the comments without a reason in the first place.

    Is saying that another player is not comparable to another (in-game) worse than personally attacking Donnie?
    Did Donnie write anything personal about Sparky's gender, allegedly a relationship, lies about inheriting stuff, and stuff that can't be proven?

    All Donnie wrote is that the 2 players (sparky and awlz) that another player mentioned are not comparable in-game.
    When one of them retired and the other continued inventing new ways to play DK which most DK players follow today I don't see how this is controversial enough to warrant all this mess.
     
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  10. itu
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    itu Well-Known Member

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    mucho tiempo viviendo en estados unidos sin poder comer un buen ceviche u.u
     
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  11. Dave Deviluke
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    Dave Deviluke Forum Moderator

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    The first post did not explain anything about the comments being related to the Berserk changes
    (you can DM me if I am wrong about it)

    I won't be locking the thread as it's very likely Donn1e would claim I power abuse or attempt to silence the objections, another Staff will probably lock it
     
  12. Dave Deviluke
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    Dave Deviluke Forum Moderator

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    Would it help if I un-Like the post?

    No, the revert of the comments was done by solely me without consulting with other Staff
    (you assumed this and was wrong about it)

    You have a point about the stuff being proven, but were the claims about sparky proven?
    Also, I don't care if the claims are factual or fabricated, they weren't mentioned to discuss about skills details like Berserk %

    No, you are twisting the narrative, the point wasn't about sparky retired - I won't take actions for the mere claim of retirement
    (you are attempting to defend Donn1e by misquoting)
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2024
  13. Valzer
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    What would help is you getting out of a thread talking about you and general staff behavior, every third comment in this post is written by you.

    So if other staff members weren't in the conversation, why did you remove the comments in the first place? no reason was provided. (even though Donnie had to write abuse + ban appeal about that)

    Let's assume that Donnie's comment has been a bit out of line, but you decided that this comment is good enough to stay after review from... yourself?

    Let's review your actions,
    you see a comment you don't like/think will instigate "flame war" " you remove it, and Donnie writes another comment, you Ban her from the thread
    Then Donnie opens the abuse report, you close it and say she should write a ban appeal, and then you respond to said ban appeal.
    Donnie says that she wants another person who didn't ban her to respond to the appeal, then you decide that the comment was ok and restore it and unban Donnie.

    So you went over all that over a comment that you approved of in the end, meaning it didn't go over the forum guidelines, because if it was, you would keep the ban.

    Does it make sense?
     
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  14. Heidi
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    Heidi GM Intern

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    I kind of see where both sides are coming from. But, forum moderation is simply impossible to do in a way that will keep everybody happy or that is even objectively fair. Questioning the judgement of moderators who have to make really difficult judgement calls just makes them feel unappreciated.

    Given how much good Dave does overall, and how minor this incident really was (no bans or even WP), I think you should all just get over yourselves and be grateful we have him here. Don't scare him away by being so god damn petty.

    Also, this shit is such a waste of other staff members time. Let them deal with the backlog of ban appeals and abuse reports, and not petty whinging about the forum moderators judgement calls.
     
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  15. Valzer
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    I more than agree, that feedback is about the staff, let the community criticize them if it's being respectful, and staff can lock and respond once this thread is over.
    This mess is overblown, and I think one incident or even multiple doesn't make the mod bad, just needs to learn from it for the next time he has a comment he doesn't like.
     
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  16. Dave Deviluke
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    Dave Deviluke Forum Moderator

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    Hmm, your 1st line is that I should get out of this thread but your next line is questioning my removal of comments so I have to reply

    No, that is another assumption you have made, I did consult with the rest of the Staff about the comments and removed it
    (they are aware of it)
    I did not inform them when I decided to revert it

    I do not think the comment is good enough to stay, I have already explained in the previous posts that such content would lead to a flame war, which Donn1e and some disagree (maybe you too)
    https://royals.ms/forum/threads/ove...e-to-the-community.228357/page-2#post-1393551

    The submission of Ban Appeal is correct for cases of reply-ban or shoutbox bans
    Yes, someone else did respond to Donn1e and lifted the reply-ban
    And no, I do not think the comment was okay, that was not the reason I restored it (please refer to the above)

    You are misrepresenting my stance on the matter and thought I was being pressured by other Staff to revert (this is not true)
     
  17. tazan
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    tazan Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if I have to quote the thread back to you, but it's relevant because people are using higher level individuals as examples in order to create skill feedback.

    The post moves on to defend the current implementation of Berserk due to its high skill ceiling which sets it apart from autopot/one button gameplay. Rather than "flaming," it highlights the difference of two playstyles, saying that the proposed Berserk change would take away that identity.

    To threaten, edit, and ban over that, meanwhile allowing definitively worse posts and personal attacks to persist in this very thread is questionable. "I'm being ironic," is not a way to lead.
     
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  18. Dave Deviluke
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    Dave Deviluke Forum Moderator

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    Hence why I have made the disclaimer of resigning or fired, just waiting to get mass report for the many over-moderation + waves of frustrated people

    There is no point for me to moderate the Forums if the community thinks certain irrelevant or flaming comments are acceptable while others are not (the double standards make it difficult for me to align with the expectations)
     
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  19. Valzer
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    Well, you should have understood that feedback about you doesn't require you, what it did is make this post not feedback, more like a shit post.

    So you did consult with the staff about removing it but not about restoring it? even though you made Donnie go all over those hurdles that changed nothing?

    If you didn't think the comment was good enough to stay, you would either remove it because it broke the rules, maybe talk with the player to change the first paragraph, and you would never restore it.

    If the real reason was being afraid of a flame war, and you don't think Donnie's comment was a flame, then you should not have removed it until it was an actual flame, which breaks the forum rules.

    Overall, I think you know that you had an incident with this mess, and I get that it happens, my point is just to get better for next time, and just follow the forum rules as they are, and if needed then change them.
     
  20. Heidi
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    Heidi GM Intern

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    I'm sure that Dave will at least take this into account in future too anyway. Realistically, he can't be going around making promises or apologizing for everything, because then other people will just whinge, and he will just be taken less and less seriously. He's also not being a power tripper by making decisions some people will inevitably disagree with (this claim is just absurd).

    I hope you guys can just stop before this has a really sad ending. Otherwise, you're extremely selfish and not taking into account what is good for the community as a whole. If Dave resigns, that's a huge loss.
     
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