A lot of people have asked me about this, so I've decided to put it in a guide for future reference. Feel free to ask questions about anything in here so I can clarify it. Do I need to wash? What should I wash to? Ultimately, mages who want to participate in endgame content should wash some. I recommend having 5-10k total HP for Horntail (depending how lazy you want to be with magic guard), 8.5-9k HP for Von Leon, and I'm actually not sure for Auf since I was 15k+ when I started running. If you're NOT interested in running HT (as a seller, buyers can go with ~2.5k), VL, or Auf, HP washing is entirely unnecessary, although mp washing can be helpful to reduce potion usage while keeping mana at safe levels for MG. Keep in mind that Fire/Poison and Ice/Lightning mages don't get invited to these bosses, leaving HP washing mostly done by Bishops. MP is very much worth it to get to 30k; it's just nice to have MP and the extra cost isn't too high. Anything past 10k HP I don't think is worth it. While I personally did get 30k HP 30k MP, the cost for that is extremely expensive and most players would be better off investing in gear instead of extra HP that doesn't really do anything. Non-washing HP Sources: There's a few other ways you can get HP without washing! Since you're a mage, each HP is much more impactful due to Magic Guard. Ellinia HP Quest: 250 HP, 1 set ~180m Legendary Collector OR Quest Virtuoso Medal: 1000 HP or 300 HP Black Belt: 500 HP Pet Equips: 200/pet is reasonable, and you can have 3 pets, for 600 total Valentine's Day Ring: It's not BiS for mages but still quite strong, and gives 150 HP These total up to 2.5k HP, or 167 APRs (+ a few extra to get more MP)! That's significant savings. Sadly, Olaf's Adventurer assignment gives mages MP instead of HP, and Reuel's Elixir of Life HP quest (daily hp quest) is not available for mages. General Washing Washing mages, like all classes, generally happens in 2 stages. If you run out of MP, you can just restart at stage 1 though, unlike other classes who reset their base int! I recommend starting washing no earlier than level 130, as this gives you lots of base int for good gains, and by this time you should be able to sell leech to fund your washing. If you have specific goals such as capping yourself at a low level or want 30/30, you might need to start washing earlier. Stage 1: Get a lot of MP MP is very easy to get for mages - our main stat is int, meaning we naturally get a lot of extra MP on leveling up, and we also have this neat skill to get even more MP: However, mages generally need a lot more MP than other classes, having the worst washing ratio of any class (+15 HP for -20 MP - the only class where you get less HP gained than MP lost). Since leveling alone won't provide you with enough MP, there's 2 ways to get extra, both using fresh AP from leveling up: Option 1: Regular MP washing. When you level up, put all 5 AP into MP, then immediately use 5 AP resets to -MP +int. This option is good if you're still low level and trying to hit new TMA breakpoints. Option 2: Delayed MP washing. When you level up, put all 5 AP into MP, and keep it there. Keep leveling and adding AP to MP until you've put 10 levels (50 AP) in. Note: the optimal amount is actually 11-12 levels, but 10 isn't too far off and makes remembering much easier. After you've added all 50 AP to MP, use 10x 1st Job SP Resets to set Improved MaxMP Increase to 0. Then, use 50 AP Resets to -MP +Int. Finally, use another 10x 1st Job SP Resets to bring MaxMP Increase back to 10. Since you've set MaxMP increase to 0 when removing MP, you're gaining an extra 10 MP per APR used, or 500 MP per 10 levels extra. This may or may not be more cost effective than option 1, but it does give you a free opportunity to turn MP into HP. Note: 10 levels of MP added can give as much as 7.5k MP. Make sure you lower your MP enough to not hit 30k MP when doing this, as any MP that would be gained after 30k is wasted. Stage 2: Turn MP into HP Once you have enough MP, it's time to turn it into HP. If anyone tells you to add AP directly to HP you can ignore any advice they ever give you about washing again: Adding fresh AP to HP gives you ~8 HP, while resetting AP gives you 15 average. When washing into HP, make sure Improved MaxMP Increase is reset to level 0: I'd recommend doing this during a delayed wash - after resetting MaxMP increase, use 49 APRs to -MP +int, then wash to HP, then use 1 final APR to -MP +int again. Once it's level 0, all you need to do is use a ton of APRs doing -MP +HP. Keep in mind this requires having at least 1 AP in HP/MP. If both arrows are grayed out in the AP Reset like this, that means you have 0 points in HP/MP, and need to either put a fresh AP into MP or AP reset from int/luk into HP Each APR removes 20 MP (30 if you didn't set MaxMP increase to 0, which makes it significantly more expensive) and gives 10-20 (15 average) HP. Keep using APRs until you hit your target HP goal or get too low on MP. I personally like to stay above 20k MP, so as soon as I get down to that I stop washing. Remember to set Improved MaxMP Increase back to 10 after finishing! Infinite Washing Level 200 and sad that you missed your chance to wash? Want to wash further than what your remaining fresh AP you'll earn allows? Time to abuse this MaxMP increase skill even more than we already have been! Infinite washing is a way of using Improved MaxMP Increase (1st job skill) to gain more HP and MP, without leveling. All it takes is ridiculous amounts of APRs - 1 apr gives ~7.8 MP. Step 0: Make sure you have at least 1 AP in HP or MP. If you don't, and don't have fresh AP, use an AP reset to -int (or luk) and +HP. Step 1: Reset MaxMP Increase to 0 using 10 1st job SP Resets Step 2: Use AP Resets to -MP +HP. Each APR will remove 20 MP and give 15 HP. Keep using them until you're close to 30k HP, or hit the lowest you're willing to have your MP go (for me, that's 20k MP) Step 3: Reset MaxMP Increase back to 10 using 10 1st job SP Resets Step 4: Use AP Resets to -HP +MP. Each APR will remove 10 HP and give 29 MP. Keep using them until you're close to 30k MP, or hit the lowest you're willing to have your HP go. Step 5: If you want more HP/MP, go to Step 1 Step 6: Use 1 final AP reset and -MP (or HP) to get that int/luk back. Estimated Costs Since AP resets give you 15 HP for ever 20 MP lost, 1 HP = 20/15 = = 1.333... MP. In total, ignoring 1st job SP reset cost as that's relatively minor compared to the rest, you use 2 AP resets (-MP +HP and -HP +MP) to gain 5 HP and 9 MP. 5 HP * 1.33... MP/HP = 6.66... MP, or 2 APRs = 15.66... MP, meaning 1 APR gains you 7.833... MP. You can use this, along with your current HP/MP from your goal, to estimate how much more you need to wash
Great work, I wish this was around when I made my first serious character. Made many mistakes on him. I would mention Quest Virtuoso's 300 HP as that is in many cases the BiS medal for mages over Legendary Collector. In my opinion some light washing for AM is still useful as it prevents you from dying from mana underflow (you drain your mp and get hit with over max HP before your pet drinks the potion), especially in rose garden or oblivion road where monsters hit 3k+ (6k for rose garden especially bonus where you'll ulti a lot!). Of course you could set the potion trigger higher but I like not having to buy them constantly. Spoiler also anego shelf/bookcase pin is worth it
Ah forgot about that, thanks! As for AM washing I certainly agree that MP washing is useful, but HP washing much less so. I'll go edit that in.
"Delayed MP washing. When you level up, put all 5 AP into MP, and keep it there. Keep leveling and adding AP to MP until you've put 10 levels (50 AP) in. Note: the optimal amount is actually 11-12 levels, but 10 isn't too far off and makes remembering much easier." What do you mean by optimal amount though? I'm washing and thinking if I could leave them in MP for more than 12 levels; or even until I feel like resetting them back into INT/HP. Would like some enlightenment
If you keep it in for >12 levels, then you're losing potential MP as you have lower base int, which reduces the MP gained per level and wash. It's around 12 levels where things balance out.
Hello, this is my first post I would also like to add that the NX/mp rate is roughly the same for both the SP reset method (delayed mp washing) and the regular mp washing method. Over 10 levels, using the SP reset method: NX cost = (10 levels)(5 apr/level)(3100 nx/apr) + (2000 nx/SPreset)(20 SP resets) = 195000 nx MP gain = (50 AP)(mp gain/AP) - 1000 mp supposing 100 mp gain per AP (on average), NX/mp rate = (195000nx)/(50*100 - 1000) = 48.75 NX/mp Using the normal method: NX cost = (10 levels)(5 apr/level)(3100 nx/apr) = 155000 nx MP gain = (50 AP)(mp gain/AP) - 1500 mp again, supposing 100 mp gain per AP, NX/mp rate = (155000 nx)/(50*100 - 1500) = 44.3 nx/mp gain So the SP reset method, with 100mp gain per AP, is about 4.4nx per mp MORE expensive than the normal method. 100 MPgain/AP corresponds roughly to having 700INT (probably a bit off). If you look at a graph of the difference of these 2 rates (SP reset method - normal method), the maximum difference is around 4.5 nx/mp, at around 112 mp gain per AP (so around 820 INT, which we have maybe around lvl 150?). Since we get exactly 500 more mp (over 10 levels) using the SP reset method, it will incur (at most) an extra (4.5 nx/mp)(500mp) = 2250 nx for the extra mp you get using the SP reset method, over 10 levels. If you are buying APRs with mesos, you can easily figure out the mesos/mp rate by multiplying the nx/mp rate by the current mesos/nx rate which we calculate based off the current trading price of an APR in fm (i.e. current APR price/3100nx) tl;dr If you don't mind being underpowered for 10 levels at a time, it is far more efficient to use the SP reset method since you are able to cover the extra mp cost in a few days (1-3) worth of voting.
Olaf questline may give 3000 mp but it can still be washed to HP (average 2250 HP) which is not negligible. (In the case of arch mage, Olaf 7 onwards may require carries/buying service. Completing up to Olaf 6 still gives 1600 mp which can be washed to 1200 HP on average.)
Normal apr -----‐---------apr +spr Only cost apr-------------cost apr+20spr Cost Xmp ea apr--------cost X-20mp ea apr If ppl do apr +spr every 10lvls the cost is more than using apr only (according to the post) but its more efficient
Efficient in this case means can get wash more mp and hp within the same number of levels I guess then?
Yes With the skill maxmp When u add fresh ap to mp you will get X+20mp compare to when the skill at 0 point (more efficient) When u use apr to -mp +hp/stat it will take X+20mp compare to when the skill at 0 point (less efficient)
Yes, it is more costly to use the SP reset method as opposed to the normal method (in terms of NX or mesos). However, I wanted to figure out how much more it would cost, every 10 levels, to use the SP reset method. If my calculations are correct (and I'm pretty sure they are, unless someone else can see a flaw in my logic ) then it seems that the SP reset method will only ever cost you (at most) 2250 nx more than the normal method, when we factor in the extra MP gained using the SP reset method.
The other thing to consider is that if you plan on washing MP into HP, you'll be SP resetting anyways so you get a free batch of this method. Also, I probably messed up my math and it's better to batch more than 10 levels at once, which would further increase the efficiency of the SP reset method.
@fuzzything44 I have a question regarding washing to ~30k HP/MP. I'm trying to make sense of the infinite washing. If say you have 999int, when you APR -HP +MP it doesn't factor the INT you have? I thought it'd go -10HP +99MP but your math shows only +29MP.
can u clarify what the -mp amount is when hp washing? in the beginning it says -20 but later it says -30. so lets say i skill point reset mp increase to 0 and then do -mp and +~15hp.
