Rule 29 states "Partying with someone who is breaking any form of rule to gain a competitive advantage makes you guilty by association. (When found in this situation, leave the party, leave the map, and report the situation in-game or via the forums. Be very cautious about this!) Punishment: The same punishment as the original offender" I feel as if that this rule is flawed and can(has) likely ban people who were in a situation in which they had done no wrong. What I hope can be changed is to revamp this rule so that for someone else to be banned by association they would need to be tied in more to the original offender or have knowledge that the offender is breaking one of the rules. EX: If a group were to be training at wolf spiders and a priest in their party that happened to be botting (breaking rule 23) without the group's noticing under current circumstances the party would get banned but what i hope to be changed is that only the rule violator would be banned. With the current rule setup that whole group would get banned even though they had no knowledge that a bot was going on and it seems as if a person is unlucky enough to be involved in 2 cases where someone in their group bots without their knowledge then they can get perma banned from server. Now I understand that this rule is in place because of the fact that someone may be able to use other characters as potential (ban mules) while walking free on a main but a case in which someone is suspected to be doing this would be able to just be investigated to find out if someone is doing this.
First, there's no such thing as a ban mule as if you're banned on one character, you are banned on all of your other ones as well. Second, in the situation you brought up, I think it would be quite obvious that someone is botting if they are constantly casting a buff at the exact same intervals every time. That's one of the things with botting, it is quite clear when someone is botting vs actually playing. I don't foresee any reason that this rule should be changed though I am curious to see what others think.
You would think that it's obvious that someone is botting but there are bots which appear to be more humane by varying the intervals in which skills are casted this may end up tricking players into believing they are not bots but if they are found by a GM to be botting then that would still result in the whole party being banned.
I think it depends on the situation. IT's really hard to say. Lets say you find a bishop and he sells you leech, you afk, and then they start hacking without your knowledge while you're in the party. Lets say in this instance, damage hack. Bishop gets auto banned but should the leecher get banned for not having control of what that person did? The short answer is no, the long could be yes, but that varies on what the GM deemed ban worthy. To have a rule that dictated what you're asking would be very harsh because it wouldn't have any boundaries whatsoever. What's to stop someone from adding you to their party for the purpose of hacking so you would get banned by association? There are people who just like to mess with other people and I wouldn't deem it fair for the person to be banned outright simply because of association. There would have to be a investigation of the player that's considered to be an associate to where it's clear that was the intent and evidence to why that conclusion was made needs to be made available to the accused (Pics, videos, etc). Not simply just, we think you're an associate so we banned you but we banned you and here's the proof. If proof isn't available than the crime needs to be waived indefinitely. To be completely honest with you Jabbalas, there are a lot of people who do what I like to call "Spiteful Snitching" where a situation isn't completely explained and they try to get a person banned maliciously by warping that situation to make it look bad on a specific individual. I've seen probably too many people get banned for silly things and this would add another reason. I personally believe that and I think i mentioned this before and called it "reverse banning" or something along those lines, where if the person accusing someone of foul task is found not guilty, then the person who attempted to get that person banned should receive the ban in place of whatever the accused would've been banned for. This would stop people from ignorantly or maliciously reporting people that did nothing wrong and the people who think like that should be punished severely. /EndRant.exe
I sometimes worry in LMPQ that if a party member was botting or hacking in another room and I didn't know about it, that I could get in trouble too. How are the rules applied in that kind of situation?
And so did I when I was PQing. IMO it's BS you gotta worry about everyone else especially if you're in different rooms. I won't even party with anyone I don't know. Which is sad because not everyone knows enough ppl to make up a whole PQ and that mindset will hinder your grinding process.
Not to mention it will hinder the friend making process. I want people to be able to feel safe partying with strangers. A careful balance needs to be found between preventing people from gaining from other people's rule breaking, but not instilling fear into the community regarding interacting with strangers.
This is more or less what I was trying to say but I was too tired yesterday to formulate any sentences that make sense.
Recently I was in a situation where I was helping a guild member train at Wolf Spiders and had no clue the guy Hsing was botting. I hardly went up to the top since i didn't need HS and the second I found out I just left. I do believe though at a map like wolf spiders since you go up for priest buffs for two seconds it's a bit hard to assume if the person is botting or not without staying in that area for a decent amount of time. If it was obvious like in a smaller map such as Gs2 then I would blame the entire party. I just believe there are certain situations where you just truly don't know or pay enough attention enough to catch them.
I think it's pretty clear to see who is botting usually they just spam the skill non stop and it is easy to spot. having leniant rules would make people abuse having a cheater in the party and claim ignorance, i agreee there need to be a balance to make party with strangers fun and not having to see it as insta ban. Hope for some clearer and more party friendly rules
During my first 2 weeks on this server i was "perma" banned for being in the same party as someone who had godmode on in CPQ. I was worrying too much about myself to even look at the guy. It was argued that I should have noticed the person hacking but I wasn't even paying attention to them. Obviously I was unbanned but I had to fight for it. I'd link the thread but all of the contents between my first post and the last post have been hidden ..
Not Always. I leveled at WS on my priest a lot via holding down the space key with HS on it and watching TV. I also had leeched friends at ULU2 by doing that same thing. When I was doing it I got a whisper from a level 27 mage who told me to come to fm at some random channel. I went there and asked what he wanted immediately and he just F6'd and didnt say anythign else. I can only assume it was a GM to check to if I was there botting or there holding down a key. If I didn't know there was a good chance that was a GM, I could have easily saw it and completely ignored him and continued to train/leech. When people are grinding at WS, they couldn't care less about anyone else. They have to grind there for HOURS upon HOURS on end, are you saying that should purposely be watching every priests move every 5 minutes to make sure they didnt start their "bot" or ask if theyre just holding down a key for the entirety of their being there?
I wouldn't stay in a party with a priest spamming HS non stop, since well if he bots I would get banned.
1. nvm im mistaken 2. Ban the buffer that is botting, but not the party members. In my opinion benefiting from an HS/SI buff botter doesn't really matter. They are not the ones botting and are still grinding for hours on end and if you can't prove that they know that the person is botting then that is just unfair. I doubt someone would go through the trouble of remaking an HS/SI "buff bot" every time it got banned either. I really don't see botting and partying being a large issue except for a few maps. Usually it's something like wolf spiders or GS2. Other than the few maps where partying and botters actually coexist, I don't really know where else it would come into play.
Then thats solid and good. Not sure what happened in my experience, then. Just trying to provide another opinion/feedback. I may not be the best person to help with this one
One good thing would be how GM's see the situation, and maybe record all evidence especially if a whole party would get banned from this, since there are certain situations where someone might do things and be sneaky enough to not get noticed. Chat logs might be good if you can see him responding fairly often and it gives doubt that they didn't know about it. I don't think the rule need to be changed, might require some more work in going through chat logs and even being in the map enough time to see if it looks like the party should be aware of the person breaking the rules. Changing the rule might make people think they can avoid it, and could have the opposite effect.
Get banned with the same punishment if there is evidence that the party knew about it and didn't take action such as reporting or leaving. EG. If the hacking occurs at a moment where there were no commands done or text written by the leeched person, it wouldn't be reasonable to get him banned. Otherwise it could be acceptable. Same at the lmpq, If hacking occurs on a room different from the one you are at, there is no way and no guilt from your part. Hope this idea can help future problems with people hacking and getting innocent people banned.
