After reading awlz’s latest post on the VL thread I thought what potential balance changes could be brought into VL. Awlz is not the only person I have heard this from, I have several friends who have lost interest in VL: Not because newer players are clearing it but more because it no longer feels like a challenge to clear it Groups that are having an awful run (anybody can be having a bad day, even vets) can salvage disaster runs by swapping to a higher WA pot You sign into 4-6 runs a week and expect that amount of clears from any seasoned VL groups unless your continental underwater internet cable explodes and half the party dcs. Is Von Leon too easy? Maybe, I’m not sure. But I think attack potions are overpowered. Common Attack Potions: Energizer: 25 wa | 30 minutes | 700k~1m Heartstopper: 60 wa | 1 minute | 390k~410k Onyx Apple: 100 wa | 10 minutes | 8m~8.5m Gelt Chocolate: 120 wa | 10 minutes | event only Naricain Elixir: 140 wa | 8 minutes | 40m~50m VL Soul Sippable substance (VL Pot): 140 wa | 15 minutes | 90m~100m Naricain Elixir and VL Pot: Before Von Leon Naricain Elixirs were around 100-120m I believe before VL in 2022. If VL Pots were never released I believe you could easily argue Naricains could easily have doubled in price The additional 40 wa across 10 players (standard 12 man group) is close to having an additional two attackers on decent gear+apple My issue with VL Pot: VL Pot is way too easy to get Why is a significantly superior attack potion (it lasts twice as long, 15minutes is a long time) so much easier to obtain than Narc Elixir? After asking several seasoned CWK vets and my own experience: Every 2-3 CWK bons 1 person on average gets 1 Narc Elixir Every VL Bonus 2-4 VL Pots drop Gelt Chocolate: I actually think Gelt Chocolate is more unbalanced than VL pot and Narc Elixir 120 WA for 10mins, I would value Gelts to be approx. 1/3 the value of a VL pot, so around 30m I am extremely casual in Xmas averaging 8-10 hand ins a week, the active people would do around 2-3 a day, so 15-20 a week I got 1 stack of gelts, the active people I know farm 2-3stacks of gelts each Xmas 1 Stack = around 3b worth of WA Pots | 3 stacks = around 9b worth of WA Pots I honestly think you just bite the bullet for this one, it would be too unfair for newer players if you nerfed the rate for Gelts. Just keep Gelts as a little overtuned and don't release any more easily obtainable high attack potions My suggestion: Stop releasing stronger WA pots Keep the current potions in their existing states, don’t change any wa pot values. Economy too hard to balance. Do not just nerf the VL potions drop rate and nothing else If you consider nerfing the drop rate of both VL potions, please consider buffing boot/ws/cs drop rate just a little to give us something to look forward to My Reach Suggestion: The last content left is Pink Bean unless you guys are cooking something in secret Consider a WA potion lock on the next/last end game content that has 1hko mechanics so you can’t mule Makes Rage an SSS-Tier skill Nerf Corsairs again
And they pay for the cost appropriately, do they not? For example, popping 1 VL pot will cost you 80m or so depending on the current market price. Not really sure how many people are stocking naricains. Bad runs are stressful as well, and requires some skill to pull through. Many runners probably have a stash of these pots, but they have the choice to sell or use them, right? I don't really ever remember them being above 80m, and that's when there were barely any in the FM. You can check the outdated Shay's and Tiff's price guides to confirm this. Post VL, the price is still in that 40-50m area, and the market has adjusted the price for VL pots accordingly (~x2). In fact, you could buy some for 35m even for a time. There was no real use case for naricains outside of meme scenarios. Also to note, like many things, the owl price for these are probably a bit inflated, and you'd be able to buy for less through megas, which for most players are a negligible cost. The only thing I really agree with in this post are about gelts. I'm really puzzled as to why they were shoved into the VL bonus. Just because they exist in CWK? Judging by the prices of naricains and VL pots, I think they are actually in a good position. Their prices are stable and high enough to reflect their attack, and it's not like they are widely available enough nor cheap enough to be used as a regular attack pot, especially compared to the holy trinity of gizer, stopper, and apple. From what I can tell, the +140 pots are only used for memes (30 man auf/HT guild runs), getting a dps boost in a bad situation, and record setting runs (for example, 12 man VL before nerf, 8 man VL after.) Isn't that... reasonable? What is the problem? I think the real problem is that VL became much too easy. Groups that have no business clearing the boss (excessive deaths) can clear the boss, and you can be sure they were using apples. Some groups can even easily use gizer up until first golem spawn at b2 50%, then switch to apple. While on one hand I'm happy more people got to enjoy the content, it also killed the enjoyment for many others. Now, VL is basically just another boss to be farmed. The biggest barrier being organization, but most competent groups have that down by now. From the amount of 12 man apple runs, and b2b runs... the effect of the most recent big nerf is very clear. My group alone went from 2 runs a week to now regularly 3 planned runs a week, and in addition it's become common to just recruit 12 man runs impromptu. Imagine, before the nerf a 12 man run required hand picked players and VL pot, and several runs failed before we cleared. Post nerf, it's not even a thought. In sum, I think that the higher attack potions helping to bail players out of a bad situation is a good thing. I'm not sure what their main purpose would be otherwise, other than what I've already stated. Their prices reflect that they should be used with care. I'm not sure what nerfing the drop rate of VL pots would do. At this current time that seems like a solution in search of a problem. Gelts are a weird item, but they also serve this purpose, and they still have a cost to them (time it takes to acquire them is not insignificant.) As long as people are still using gizers, stoppers, and apples, and they are still buying them, I think the economy and game is in a good spot. None of these options are close to being replaced, right? As for the future, I doubt a more powerful attack pot would be released in the future. During VL development, there was already a conversation in staff about being careful with the attack value of a new pot, hence why VL pot only exceeds naricain in duration.
Thanks for your feedback. There are no plans to nerf the VL potions. Will consider your suggestions for future content.
