In Discussion Class/Skill [Feedback Request] Skill Changes and Balancing

Is there anything in the thread (or another thread) that is announced by staff to be implemented in the future?

The thread is pretty old by now but I see it still gets comments so is this still the place to add feedback?

 

Hey everyone, I'd like to contribute to this thread, mainly focusing on bowmaster class, after seeing all the suggestions from other people who contributed a long time ago, and well also after being on this server for a long time playing Bowmaster as main, so let's start.

First point:

ERASE Hurricane ''Delay''

Not many people have talked ''in depth'' about how bad is this ''Delay''.
All ATT classes (except corsair with ''rapid fire'') can attack without having to start an ''animation'', and for corsairs is like a time of punishment bcz they broke their ships, so why are we bowmasters permanently cursed with this .

This animation or also called ''hurricane delay'' CAN'T be modified with Bow Booster or Speed Infusion, it's always the same:

Hurricane delay
All: 300ms

Hurricane delay (spamming)
All: 330ms

Hurricane (per arrow)
All: 120ms

as we can see once the 0.3~0.33sec animation is finished we will throw an arrow every 0.12sec but the point here is that as a bowmaster with practically ZERO avoidability we will be using the animation over and over most of the time instead of actually throwing arrows LOL.
This ''animation'' would make sense if the bowmaster's damage and evasion were the most OP on the server but sadly that's NOT the case.

Hurricane animation is also affected when using consumables, the best and most common example is all cure potions, because you need to release the hurricane key in order to use this potion, and of course when you release the key you will have to redo the ''animation'' instead of actually having a solid DPS while other classes can use their potions in the middle of their attack skills, unfair right?
and welp this problem will haunt us throughout all the content that this game offers us.

Personally i love the hurricane skill, it's one of my favorites and one of the main reasons why i still continue playing bowmaster as main (mainly because of how it looks and the sound of the skill) idk if this delay/animation can be erased so i hope devs can give us a solution(or at least let us use consumables in the middle of hurricane pls).

Second point:

Concentrate REWORK

Many people like to do jokes about how bowmasters give 30 SP to this skill which is practically a ''gizer with cooldown'' and well it's true (even the ability to save 50% of our mana doesn't make much sense), this has to be a ''late game skill'' and welpp...

After heard the suggestions from bowmasters we probably need this skill to give us some kind of evasion like a personal smokescreen or something like that, would be the best way to update/buff this skill (pls dont give us ''stance rate'' that is a bad idea due the hurricane animation unless u can erase the hurri animation ), Also we can keep those 26att(optional), similar system like dk beholder or bucc bubble.

I think that giving stackable attack to concentrate WON'T make a BIG difference, if we don't have evasion/avoid since as I said in the previous point we will be casting animations instead of throwing arrows SMH, another suggestion I saw in the thread was to give extra critical % during the duration of concentrate, it's not a bad idea but I would prefer it to be permanent crit which brings me to the next point.

Third point:

IMPROVE Base Crit% to Archers

give 10 ~ 15% extra base crit seemed like an interesting idea to me, it won't make us surpass NL or Corsair in DPS therms.
This can be added on SE as passive mode to avoid high chance crits on low lvls archers.

Many people from here is right: archers are the class with the worst way to scaling in damage and this is the truth so we need this extra crit% to at least be more competent, (or also these archer dmg formulas could also be modified which was already suggested too).


Fourth point:

IMPROVE Puppet Duration

This skill are one of the best from archers(once u understand how aggro works), i know this skill was buffed alrdy(extraHP) and its amazing!
but we still need another extra buff for this cool skill, at least 2~3 minutes duration and moreHP(HP optional) to make archers QoL a bit better.



Final Conclusions


Archers are a support-ranged singletarget class, but although being weaker than NL or Corsair, i think that NEVER a warrior or buccaneer or even a shadower should beat us in single target dps, because that must be our STRONG side/advantage, melee classes are pretty good in AoE DPS and decent single DPS and that should be reflected in this whole class balance thread.

Here I only considered things that as a main bm I consider important, prob with my suggested changes, BM will still remain as a low dps class but i just wanna make bowmaster more enjoyable for new/old players that like to main this cute class ^^ .
Maybe i should have included formula changes but many ppl did ''complex replies'' about that on this thread so im just crossing finger atm, anddd about quivers theres a thread alrdy too.

I also did not mention things about marksman (only crit rate and puppet buff) but I still think the same, both marksman and bowmaster, should be above melee classes in therms of 1 target DPS, and good suggestions have already been made to buff marksman skills so ill refrain from suggesting them, but the truth is i would not mind if a marksman is superior to a bowmaster or vice versa, we are a team, so pls don't fight each other to see who is better LOL.


Greetings.
FearlessJyR

 

Please change genesis/meteor/blizzard so mobs get knocked back to the directly the mage is facing instead of a pre-determined side

 

There's technically a comment here where Zancks mentioned their balancing patch. I think one can assume they have some set changes planned and ready but just waiting for the Dev to increase the file space of the game to accommodate them.

We have no idea if they're still considering recent posts and making adjustments, though by Zancks comment on wanting feedback on removing cap for Blast/Snipe, they're still wanting it. Only thing would be if he or other Staff just asked questions on things in this thread like Xelnath from WoW/LoL.

 

I have a middle road snipe solution, that, full disclosure, I personally don't luv, but it's for the sake of kicking the can off the road entirely, to avoid future retuning, to borrow a phrase from the thread.

Snipe is changed to a % formula that will scale. However that formula is determined, fine, have fun with that lol.

But for keeping identity and playstyle, two caveats.
-snipe's formula will do more damage during weapon cancel
-snipe will always do 200k dmg during WC if your range won't do at least 200k
-this 200k WC minimum will increase at higher levels, to support players who are unable to increase their range for whatever reason. Like 150, 175, 200, the minimum snipe damage during WC increases, for example, 250k, 300, 399k

This gives geared MM what they're asking for, but also keeps the identity and utility of ungeared MM afloat. Also adds teamwork/synergy/role when partying with or without paladins. (With: increased strafes, increased snipes during WC. W/o: increased snipe during cancel, MM shine)

I really like and encourage the % snipe doing more during WC. If were leaning towards snipe in late game doing a % instead of fixed, then the WC boost gives MM a moment to shine with a supercritical shot which also buffs the class in an upward enough way to help the class overall.

This is also a player-side buff. You don't just hold buttons, you wait for the moment, and are rewarded to take advantage of it.

[Still also think Strafe should go down to three arrows with max marksmanship, doing equal damage to 4, but slightly faster casts over time, so a dpm buff overall]

DB/eruption/rain should cost 10 arrows. Give DB a 10-20% chance to kb lhc mobs at max. Increase DB mp.

 

Honestly I just want some info regarding the upcoming balance patch, what’s the scope of it? Ranging from a few abilities to a full upheaval like when new source released. An ETA?
At this point this thread feels kinda pointless as hardly anything really came from it.

 

suggestion for MM : increase vertical range (and end range a little bit) on piercing arrow, so they can attack multiple targets in Zak, HT

 

Giving hero Intrepid Slash would help

 

Love the idea others posted of raising Archer's base crit a bit.

I doubt this will ever happen cuz "oldschool" but as a NL main in every Maple version I've ever played, I've always felt like Shadowers deserve Flash Jump.
I didn't like how GMS eventually gave all classes their own FJ, as its part of what makes the NL playstyle so unique. But I feel bad for bandits lol.

 

I don't think Shads should get Flash Jump. It probably won't be possible on this server but in other 'experimental' servers, they made Assaulter be able to be used without a target and also allowed players to climb platforms vertically. This gave Shadowers a different mobility that looked very fun.

 

Considering GM characters are able to use flash jump regardless of which class that they are, I don’t believe it would be hard at all to implement FJ to shadowers.

 

I don’t know if this has been mentioned before, but what is the damage formula for Outlaw/Corsair Flamethrower’s DoT?

Despite being level 12x I often see DoTs of below 100 damage/tick and I don’t recall ever seeing above 375dmg on mobs who have 70k+ HP.

I feel like the base damage should be increased, or the DoT dealing %dmg similar to poison?


In my memory the DoT was bugged for a very long time years ago, but it has no purpose at all even if its working.

 

I have maxed flame thrower and maxed elemental boost which gives +5% to its DOT. My flame thrower’s DOT per tick is 10% of the flame thrower’s damage (20k dmg =2k per tick). So I assume without elemental boost it’s 5% of your flamethrower’s damage per tick.
Note that elemental boost also increases ice and fire’s damage by quite a lot once maxed, which in turn increases the dmg of your DOT (same with attack pots).

 

Added more suggestions to my list

[-] General - Buff accuracy for Warriors:

• Hat - Auf helm accuracy slightly increased by 5 accuracy
• Eye accessory - Ninja Toad Headband gets ~10 accuracy
• Face accessory - Introduction of new Face accessory that gives accuracy, ~10 accuracy (this may take some years to implement after Pink Bean...)
• Earring - Shogun earrings gets ~20 accuracy
• Belt - Von Leon Belt gets ~20 Accuracy
• Ring - Ifia ring gets ~5 accuracy or introduce new ring that gives accuracy
• And/or Give general accuracy buff of 2~3 accuracy per 100 STR

Why?: Late in the game, high level Warriors shouldn't be struggling to hit stuff/be forced to accuracy potion high level content unless its a very high avoid mob/boss (which is fine).


[-] REMOVED General - Reduce Total Crash to 10 levels from 20 levels

Why?: I feel these skills require way too much skill points for skills that you won't use until much later on and you're unable to max other skills that you're regularly using (or will benefit from immediately). Reducing to 10 levels will allow more satisfaction in skill point distribution


[-] General All Warriors will have Total Crash (1 rank and requires maxed Defense/Attack Crash); values:

• Paladin - Total Crash remains at 75%
• Hero/Dark Knight - Total Crash for non-Paladins will be 50% breakthrough rate (2/3 of Paladin's value)
• Same range as Sharp Eyes
• Lasts 60 seconds

Why?: This would allow party compensations for the average player to be more flexible and reduce the burden of obtaining a Paladin player or Attacker with a WK/Pally mule for certain bosses.


[-] General - Total Crash reduce to 1 rank and requires maxed Defense/Attack Crash (10 skill point max)

Why?: To go with the QoL of reducing Defense/Attack Crash to 10 point skill max. To unlock this, you need to max Def/Atk Crash on Paladin/Hero/Dark Knight


[-] Paladin - Armor Crash will be returned to Paladin (10 point skill max)

Why?: Returns utility to Paladin in situations where they were heavily reliant on Bishop to remove DEF UP for them. This will improve the subclass's effectiveness in certain bosses and allow them to attain slightly higher DPS.


[-] Blast - Change into a 2-line skill, roughly 80/20% or 85/15% until damage cap can be removed

Why?: It's been asked for years to uncap Paladin but we learned that this heavily requested change has been left off the table. So until Staff/Dev is able to figure out how to remove the damage cap and allow Paladin to exceed 199k, change the skill hit to two lines from one line so that Paladins no longer suffer from damage loss. When it's figured out how to uncap, revert this change back to one line skill.

 

This is not to add new suggestions. Just wanted to give some color - how I feel as a bowmatser main.
I have no idea about dps or class balance. But… isn’t it just sad that most of our 4th job skills are meme?

Sharp Eyes: It weakens shad(!). Low demand for SE in shad/bucc meta.
Concentrate: I concentrate not to use Concentrate when I am using apple.
Dragon Breath: Other than boss and close mobs, what would I want to blow off? Nothing.
Phenix: I do not bother to cast it because its damage is ignorable.

Please add FealessJyR's suggestions to the to-do list!

 

I agree with the low dmg archer issue, but I want to provide a different idea.

A way to deal archer issue is getting rid of all the inconvenience, but I prefer keeping something reasonable inconvenience to increase the challenging.
for example, if gm want to buff shad, they can:
1)decrease the skill-delay
2)increase the skill range/dmg
3)decrease bucc's tl cool-time
4)others
we can see 1) & 2) decrease the inconvenience of shad, but that make shad become a solo job.
on the other hand, 3) increase the shad/bucc linkage and increase cooperative between shad/bucc.

and go back to BM/MM(because I'm a MM so I'll discuss it at same time.
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(the reply to FealessJyR's suggestions)

the delay to this skill can be related to something
--->shad: ss
--->MM: blind
--->add more kind of avoidability potion/gear can deal this issue to sair/bm at same time
In conclusion, I think add potion/gear or buff the % of can buff BM and keep the difference between skillful BM & unskilled BM.

(there's a same useless skill at hero)
1)add crt rate/crt dmg is a good way
2)add 10~15min cool-time and 30~40sec +120att, make this to be a short-tern gelt (or +140att as vl-potion).


buff this will buff NL very much at same time, this point should be considered.
--->I prefer buff [Critical Shot](1st job), this way can buff archer only


this is strong enough, buff it will let musha/BF/BlackClaw/Anego/CWKpirate... become a high HP puppet
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--->please buff the attack range of if buffed
I'd like to separate the difference between BM/MM, BM good at single target and MM good at multi target.
--->or make the 2nd (the origin is keep the same)
there's 2 way to limit the se buff to NL but increase se buff to other job
1)extra crt% over 50%, NL cannot got the extra crt% after 50%
2)decrease crt dmg but decrease crt dmg and find the balance
so I suggest the 2nd have
1) 80%~100% crt % & 10~15%(100~115?) crt dmg
2) long cool-time with high buff (80~100%crt & 30~50%(130~150?) crt dmg)