I would like to suggest a change to the max HP system, I believe it would appeal to a broader crowd of players, gaining more casual players, making the game more fun and giving more reasons to do PQs and Bosses. I believe that the current max HP gain system, washing, is making the game less fun and deters new and casual players. I understand that it has its advantages but the pros outweigh the cons. Why change it? Over the years I've met new and active players and I noticed HP washing turned them off, I'll give examples, I met new players and when I explained the most efficient way to get to the point where you do decent dmg and survive high lvl content with the job that they want is to open bishop, sell leech, sell APRs, sell gacha, open new char, leech, wash, bluh bluh bluh... I've met a few players who got annoyed, opened a bishop, cheated to lvl up faster and gain faster meso (since they didn't even want to play bishop), got caught, banned, and stopped playing. They deserved it, you shouldn't cheat. Some other players gave up pretty early on thinking that that kind of grind does not sound fun for them. But I understand that they came to MapleRoyals thinking "I'll open my new char xXA55ManXx the Night Lord and play until lvl 200" realizing on the way there that there are way more steps to be as powerful (and not being powerful isn't fun btw) as they thought so they'll have to leave their now emotionally attached xXA55ManXx , happened to me too. I've met a few players who would lvl up to around 90 through pqs because they liked the social aspect of parties in pqs, reached ppq, and stopped playing until they wanted to do it again, sometimes in other jobs, but they didn't continue after ppq since washing and leeching that is needed in the high lvl pqs and bosses content wasn't fun for them. I've met players who wasted too much time on overwashing since the math was complex to them, feeling like they wasted time grinding instead of having fun playing with people. And of course I've met players who underwashed, which ruined their plans for high lvl content. I might be able to think of more examples but I'll stop here. My conclusion was washing adds a grind to the game, but the grind isn't fun for a lot of players, of course there are players who enjoy and understand the grind, but the casual game enjoyer crowd is always larger then the hardcore game enjoyer crowd. Now, let's talk how, introducing quests and rewards WITH CAPS that grant max HP is a great way to provide an alternative to HP washing, making the game more accessible while still rewarding effort and skill. Here’s a somewhat balanced (it of course needs more balancing) approach that could be implemented: 1. Daily Boss Quests - Concept: Players can earn max HP by defeating a set number of bosses each day. - Example: Defeating 5 specific bosses (e.g., Zakum, Papulatus, Pianus) per day grants +10 max HP. - Balance: This approach rewards consistent daily effort and gives players a reason to engage in bossing regularly. The HP gain is modest enough to prevent overpowering characters too quickly. 2. Cumulative Boss Challenge - Concept: Over time, players can accumulate boss kills to gain HP boosts. - Example: Defeating 100 bosses grants a one-time reward of +100 max HP. This reward can be repeated but requires significantly more bosses each time (e.g., 200 bosses for the next +100 HP). - Balance: This ensures that players need to engage with high-level content continuously, and the increasing requirements prevent rapid HP accumulation. 3. Hard Quests with Time Investment - Concept: Long or challenging quests that require substantial effort reward max HP upon completion. - Example: A quest requiring players to collect rare drops from various high-level monsters (e.g., 100 Black Versal Cores from Gatekeepers in Deep Ludibrium) grants +50 max HP. - Balance: These quests take time and effort, making the HP gain a well-earned reward. The difficulty can be adjusted to ensure it’s challenging but fair. 4. Token of Teamwork HP Rewards - Concept: Tokens of Teamwork grant HP rewards. - Example: Adding to max HP to the Tokens of Teamwork reward NPC the option to give max HP as a reward. - Balance: This promotes teamwork and community engagement. 5. Party Quests and Group Activities - Concept: Encouraging group play by rewarding HP for completing party quests. - Example: Successfully completing a challenging party quest (like the Ludibrium PQ or the Orbis PQ) a certain number of times (e.g., 50 times) grants +30 max HP. - Balance: Like Tokens of Teamwork this promotes teamwork and community engagement. The reward is meaningful but not too large, ensuring it doesn’t diminish the effort required for other HP-gaining activities. General Considerations: - Scaling: The HP rewards should scale with the difficulty and time required. Easier quests should give smaller amounts of HP, while harder, more time-consuming quests give larger boosts. - Caps: To prevent excessive HP accumulation, consider placing caps on how much HP can be gained through these methods (e.g., a maximum of +1000 HP from quests). - Retroactive Application: For fairness, these quests should be available to both new and existing characters. Retroactive rewards can be considered. This approach ensures that players have multiple avenues to increase their max HP, rewarding skill, consistency, and community engagement while keeping the game balanced. There are problems that arise from this change, I'll address 2 that come to mind, there might be better solutions of course, these are examples: - Problem: NX is mostly used on APR or Gacha tickets, this will remove the need for APR and flood the market with Gacha items. - Solution: Raise the price of Gacha tickets. - Problem: This significantly shortens the grind to 200. - Solution: Stop events that give more EXP/Meso/Drop (you can make the events more item focused like cosmetics, chairs and the Pedant/Ring that takes the CashShop slot and disappears after a while (beautiful idea btw (I mean the item idea not my idea (I'm not that cocky (I think))))). I would love some feedback from the community to make this HP Overhaul even better. Edit: I should add that mages of course need Max MP instead, and that players should have a choice in at least one of the "Max HP gain overhaul" ways to gain Max HP or Max MP, since some mages might want more Max HP (for HT) and none mages might want more Max MP. (p.s. now that i think about it it's not that much of an overhaul since staff actually beautifully already implemented additional ways so its more of an update then overhaul )
Honestly, just adding HP rewards for completing Party Quests that aren't mule-friendly is the single most beneficial change I'd like to see (on top of making AP resets untradeable, but this will never happen because try-hard veterans would be pissed). -- To your thread: I support 4 & 5 but not the rest. The game has an unhealthy amount of solo-able/mule-able bossing content already due to it already being attractive to the general public for NX/item drops. It'd also be more time consuming to add and negatively impact people completing their quests.
You are aware of the various HP sources already in the game right? https://royals.ms/forum/threads/ways-to-gain-hp.224740/ If you skipped reading that, the basics are it should be possible to hit >12k HP within a month of reaching lv 120. And the only bosses that take HP above that tend to be very high level and require strong gear, meaning the ~5 months of HP questing to get to 17.5k (VL req) can also be spent working on the gear you'll need to contribute. Washing is optional if you're okay with questing for HP, most people just want to be lazy because washing is relatively cheap for an invested player.
I honestly wish bosses did % based attacks rather than flat damage numbers , so there was actually an incentive to avoid attacks instead of face tanking stuff , because you meet the minimum threshold. With that being said I'm always in favour of PQs get some form of buff.
Issue with % attacks is you can then just pot through everything, and many boss attacks are just full map undodgeable attacks. GMS has attacks deal % damage with their later bosses, but then adds a potion CD (and heal has a CD, but bishop is still very op) and makes them avoidable. While theoretically Royals could do that, it would take a tremendous amount of work to rework all previous bosses and make all the effort that people put in to wash/HP quest pointless, which would upset a lot of people. I'd rather go with the option of adding alternative ways to get HP, but still require some amount of effort to be put in. Personally I think adding the RG HP/mp potions to token of teamwork exchange could be a great idea, or perhaps have a daily (or maybe weekly) quest to run a random PQ some amount of times for a bit of extra HP
I don't think % damage is a good idea too. I prefer more [high hp low att gear] added with new content/map/pq. but I think old-bosses is designed by 30k hp cap, maybe make a Lv limit to [hp cap remove quest] is a way?
●I think most idea is implemented in the similar way. 1. boss for hp------->>rose garden(Lv170) 2.boss kill -------->>very bored way to got hp :c, boss kill in [olaf's max hp quest] is more interesting 3.hard quest----------->>(1)lots of hp medals (+1000hp +500hp ...) (2)Elixir for life(Lv120 max-hp quest) (3)ellinia 500hp quest 4.&5. pq to increase max hp------------>most pq gears can provide good hp/att state for newbies. ●some ideas -->I prefer add more kind of pq's hp gear rather than just add hp. and change different set of gears base on the boss -->if it's technically-allowed, I want to get some variable kind of gears from pq such as [Ice/Fire properties Archer gear] with special mobs(only some kind of property-attack, ice/fire..., can do effective attack -??But I agree most Hp content need hard require to do ---->(1)at least 1 mage (2)High Lv ● I think ur problems are on the basic of pq issue: ------------->(1)no suitable pq for ppl between Lv85(after ppq)~Lv135(before epq) (2)there's big gear/hp gap between cwkpq/epq
Thanks for pointing that out I’m aware that ~17.5k HP is achievable with the current methods, especially through questing and other HP sources. However, many players aim for even higher HP because having more HP reduces the risk of dying in high-level content and also cuts down on the cost of HP potions. While washing is an option, it's often seen as the most efficient way to get the necessary HP, which can make players feel pressured into it. My suggestion is to offer alternative, balanced ways to gain higher HP that don’t solely rely on washing.
Thanks for your thoughts! I appreciate the points you’ve raised, especially regarding how some of these ideas are already implemented in different forms. However, my suggestion is more about expanding and refining these systems to provide additional, balanced options for players, particularly those who might find the current methods either too grindy or not rewarding enough. For example, while the Rose Garden and other quests do provide HP, I think there’s room for more diverse and engaging content that also rewards max HP. The idea behind introducing more boss and PQ-related HP gains is to offer varied challenges that align with different player preferences, without making the process feel monotonous or overly repetitive. Regarding gear, I’ve noticed that most players prefer gear that boosts their damage rather than just providing extra HP. That’s why I’m suggesting more options to gain HP through quests and activities, allowing players to focus on improving their damage output with their gear while still having ways to increase their survivability through other means. I also agree with your point about the gear/HP gap between certain PQs and the level gap between PPQ and EPQ. Addressing these areas could definitely help smooth out the leveling experience and keep players more engaged during those phases. Overall, my goal is to make the HP progression more accessible and enjoyable while still maintaining a sense of challenge.
I completely agree that adding HP rewards for Party Quests that discourage mules would be a huge step forward. It would definitely encourage more genuine group play and make PQs more rewarding. As for the suggestions in my thread, I appreciate your support for points 4 & 5. I understand your concerns about adding more solo-able or mule-able content, and you're right—balancing these changes to avoid making solo play even more dominant is crucial. The goal is to encourage diverse playstyles, not to detract from the cooperative aspects of the game. Perhaps focusing on more group-centric activities, like PQs and bossing that require real teamwork, is the way to go. It’s all about finding that sweet spot where content is challenging, fun, and rewarding.
You touched on something that I have felt is THE fundamental issue with combat in this game, and I didn't know that GMS eventually changed it. In Royals, all potions apply their effects instantly and with no cooldown on using another potion. We have pet autopot so we don't even need to think beyond setting a threshold value. Elixirs/PEs are pretty easy to get. This means that surviving an enemy becomes a question of whether you have enough potions and nothing else (with a few exceptions like seduce, getting stuck in dark sight, or server responsiveness). No skill involved, neither is any skill possible unless you're a DK and have to choose the right pot for the situation. The only way to make a boss challenging in this situation is to make it hit harder, so bosses devolve into HP gates. You must be at least this tanky to ride. There's no "gitting gud" beyond grinding out more HP. I guess you could bring a DK, but you have to be careful with bosses that can dispel. I think this may be part of why some people get turned off from this game. There's no learning, only grinding, and it's not the kind of grinding where you learn more about the game. I agree that radically changing the potion system is a bad move, so... ...focusing on making players want to play the game with other people may be a good way to go. I'd love to see more bosses with multiple segments so people have to split up a little instead of just standing on top of each other holding their attack key for half an hour. It would also make arch mages feel more useful.
Von Leon is actually a step in the right direction - it has attacks that kill no matter what your HP is, forcing you to take the fight seriously. It still doesn't fix the fundamental issue of HP being a gate, forcing attacks to pretty much be all or nothing (you either live or you die, no in between), but it certainly helps make the boss fight much more engaging. Ideally future bosses use similar design philosophy and I could even potentially see a boss design with potions (and probably heal, idk) disabled dojo/CPQ style, if adding a potion CD for future bosses isn't feasible.
This is a good post, and I'm all for anything HP-related. It seems like this is the main thing holding the game back. Fixing this, and / or making Reuels more appealing- like with the weekly timer suggestion that seems to already have been forgotten, could really help bring in more content, activity, interest for both Developers and Players.
I like potion CD, too. but adding potion CD will face technique issue, causing more time to wait (like pink bean since 2yrs ago) dojo/CPQ can be an easier way to design.
I disagree with adding more hp sources in-game, other than from PQ sources of course (e.g token of teamworks trade for HP vials) I also feel that the decision of having projectile hp% based attacks in royals is positive step as it makes boss feel less stagnant (most boss is just hold 1 button and watch TikTok), but this wouldn't address the issue of people complaining HP requirements and so on I reccomend adding other elements instead to make boss fights more interesting such as boss tests, e.g. a good example is Will boss fight (needs good teamwork in a party to effectively kill him) https://dexless.com/guides/will-for-dummies.355/ The golden rule is, With interesting boss fights, you'll get people less complaining about HP barriers and more about skill technique required when facing them
This is exactly it. If our boss fights were designed with really interesting mechanics with clear paths of avoidance, then it'd be more about skill. While I don't like HP washing at all, I think it should remain as an optional luxury. The best solution would be having interesting mechanics where washing isn't required. Its just how the old Maple was, but I'd be all for improvements to it.
