Why am I forced to glitch in order to keep my FM spot?

If I set up my store at the bottom row next to the portal, normally you cannot set up a store above it. If you FM store jump glitch you can set up a store here. Now, if I want to reset my store, I am forced to close it and do the jump glitch, or else I will not have enough room to open my store, because the glitched store above it will prevent me from legitimately opening it.

So now it is at the point where I am forced to abuse this jump glitch just to keep my FM spot. Keep in mind, that if I am using my laptop (which is my only computer since I am in college and do not own a desktop) and do not have a USB Mouse, I CANNOT use this glitch as it does not work with the normal laptop built in mouse, so I am not even able to keep my spot for more than 24 hours and am unable to reset it.



So now it is at the point where you are telling me I must abuse a glitch to keep some FM spots that were obtained completely legitimately from server checks, or to go find a different spot.

Thoughts GMs/Admins/Developers/Whoever?

 

I'm fairly certain that the answer we're going to get is "we're aware of the problem and it should be resolved in the new source, there's nothing we can do about it for the moment." though I agree that this is definitely something that needs to be addressed.

 

Yeah I've kind of got to agree that this is weird :\
I've opened my shop in fm3 as the first in that whole area (next to the portal), to then later come back to see that someone jump opened his shop right above me. Then a gm tells me I can't refresh my store and I can't get the other guy to close his either because I don't have screenshots of myself opening the store.

Well, either rip my store or inbefore banned for glitch abusing f3

 

Agree.
If this continues the way that this, and you can beat the system, in a few days will be allowed to use the abuses that the Ario uses to set up shop wherever you like

 

I really don't understand why these threads keep coming up. We know this is a problem already, and we are fixing it for the new source, but as it stands, all we can do is what we've been doing in the past.

If you want some clarification about shops, here it is:

• When we're closing shops, we close shops that fully cause another shop to be inaccessible.
• When two shops are partially overlapped but both are still easily accessible, we leave them alone.
• If we see you jumping all over the place, we reserve the right to ban you for glitch abuse, because it is what you're doing; abusing glitches.
• We are not TELLING you to glitch abuse. You CHOOSE to glitch abuse to retake that spot. You still have the option of the many other FM rooms on the server to open your shop.

We understand that this is not favorable. There's just not much more we can do.

 

@Matt @Tim @John mind clarifying that this IS BANNABLE?]

Since I have been here I have seen at the very minimum 6 different threads all with varying responses on whether or not this is bannable. Ridiculous at this point. None of this is being handled correctly, especially when you start saying you will be banning people who have essentially been forced to glitch by the "pro fmers" that like to use it to get spots and wont move for others to reset

 

So you're basically giving the glitch-abusers full permission to take over someones FM spot? Sure they can both be accessed, but the person who opened the shop first won't be able to reset their shop. Why should they have to relocate to a different FM room if they rightfully had that spot first? If you guys are able to tell which shop was opened first, why don't you close shops that are blatantly opened by glitch abuse? I seriously don't understand the logic behind the staff's viewpoint on this issue..

 

If someone takes the spot above this spot and the name of the spot below is not changed, I expect to see him banned then

 

@crisk21 I'd suggest that you keep a screenshot of where you set up your shop. We've closed shops in past because players proved that their shop was opened first and that someone glitched on top of them. Simply sending a message and making the claim isn't enough, because I'm sure we're all aware that a the use of this glitch has become mainstream. The long and short of it is that, unless the shops are actually largely overlapped, it's not possible at this time to tell which shop was opened first.

As for @Nostaigia's claim; I stated what I've always understood of how we deal with these cases. If you would please link those threads you refer to in which the situations were handled differently, staff can discuss how we'll move forth and make a proper statement, as I'm personally unaware of what you're talking about. I will clarify for you straight; any and all glitch abuse is bannable at our discretion, no exceptions. It is simply a matter of being able to prove the player abused without doubt that is the limiting factor. If you have proof that someone else used a glitch, you are more than welcome to report them for it.

EDIT: Proof constitutes physical evidence of someone abusing a glitch; i.e catching a botter while botting, or (more relevantly) seeing a player jump in place for a while then suddenly a shop spawns. If you were to find a shop above that player's shop in the screenshot, the stance we're taking now is that we will close their shop unless you have concrete evidence showing them abusing a glitch to get it there.

For something new: we are looking at a way to make merchant timers more accessible to GMs on the current source to help rectify these cases.

 

So is my screenshot not enough proof that whoever opens above them is glitch abusing and should be banned?

If it is not enough to prove "without an unreasonable doubt", then how can you guys say that you are correct when you remove items that you "think are duped"?. I think it was chusky or norajo that was selling ele wands with the same stats and someone said he duped them and they were removed without any ACTUAL proof. To me that is not beyond a reasonable doubt. If that counts, my screenshot should be enough proof that whoever opens above that store should be banned then.

 

I've posted about this glitch numerous times. Staff know about it. Most of the players know about it.

http://royals.ms/forum/threads/is-fm-shop-glitching-allowed.21679/
http://royals.ms/forum/threads/autoban-fm-glitchers.23507/

Matt initially agreed that it was glitch abuse, but seems like Sila and John talked him out of it. John just seems slow, he STILL doesn't get why it's wrong. Sila I don't know what the deal is, I'm guessing his in-game buddies all like to use this glitch.

@Michael : maybe you aren't aware of this, but someone has already reported a glitch abuser with screenshots. The glitcher admitted to doing it in the same thread. And the staff did nothing. (thread)

To Matt and Michael: this is a simple problem to solve. Just make an announcement. Say very clearly and unequivocably, jumping up and down and opening shop is glitch abuse and you will get banned if you do it. That's all it'll take.

What would be proof of someone glitching? Just a few screenshots: one of the FM room before glitcher's shop goes up, one of the glitcher jumping, and one after the glitcher's shop opens. Or a video.

 

My problem is the inconsistency in how this is handled. I've seen GMs close both stores, I've seen them close the first store, I've seen it left alone and the players involved asked to post a thread. And saying that "in the end we can just ban you for glitch abuse and that is that" doesn't make sense when I've seen GMs help out someone trying to jump glitch and even jump glitch themselves. Future updates may address the issue, but a SPECIFIC and concrete rule need to be set in place and announced now. Dishing out bans left and right without a SPECIFIC rule isn't the way to go. There is no other situation where glitching is the norm, and if you don't do it, you're left behind. Make a rule change, announce it, and if people break the rule then ban them.

 

This is literally the same situation; in neither case, there is no proof of any actual abuse (glitch abuse here, duping there) and so no bans can be handed out. What we can do is close that shop, and we could remove those likely-duped items, which we did. Go look at FM2 - I've closed both Speedo's shop as well as another that glitched beside KingFog.

This is what you will require in order for us to consider banning a player for glitching FM shops. I cannot make statements on bans that should have happened two months ago, but what I can say is that, moving forward, the statements I've made are the result of the considerations we've made from this thread, and they will be how we are handling this moving forward:

• If you can prove your shop with was there first with a screenshot (or any other reasonable method) and someone is blocking your ability to refresh or access it, we can close the offender's shop.
• If you can prove a player was abusing a glitch with a series of screenshots or a video (or any other reasonable method), we can ban that player.

And I'll once again state that Karven is looking at implementing a command that will allow the GMs to more easily tell who's shop was up first, which may or may not override the necessity of screenshots to close glitched shops.

 

It's impossible to open at that location when there is a store below you without jump glitching. I'm not crying for a ban, I am pointing this out to show that there is a misunderstanding regarding this issue even within the staff.

 

LOL thanks for that insight. I guess now we know why some GMs were so against punishing this particular glitch abuse.

 

I have seen TimK trying to glitch a shop in FM2 once

It can be other way around too (as in: you can glitch jump a shop on the bottom when there is a shop on the platform already)

 

And we're not in a position where we have enough tools at our disposal to begin banning people for this sort of thing. @happyname provides the information that it's possible to glitch the bottom shop as well; who's to say that the player below didn't take a screenshot then close their shop, wait for someone to open a shop normally above it, then glitch it back in place below? It's just not feasible for us to ban for something like this at this time. I've stated twice already that we're looking at implementing a method that will allow us to better tell for this sort of thing; expect a statement when that occurs and potentially a change to this policy at that time, but it cannot occur before that time.

You and Inversion make very serious allegations of corruption and abuse directed at members of staff. I encourage you to come forward through either the Report Abuse section or directly to a GM or Administrator of choice with your allegations. If you will not do that, then I suggest you stop making these claims in this thread, as they do not contribute to rectifying the issue at hand.

 

Good luck on closing these shops anyway, new just opened already and fm1 as usuall is full of glitched shops. Everyone is focusing on punishing people here, but the question is if that glitch can be fixed in the future?

 

This particular glitch is fixed on our new source, so all that's left to debate is how we're going to make it to the day that the new source is released.

 

Frankly I dont care much for people being punished.

My issue is that I am not allowed to have a store in a good fm spot at this point unless I am forced to glitch, which I cant even if I wanted to right now. That and I, like inversion, want a clear cut answer to this