Let me first say I love and appreciate this whole Maple Royals project. It truly is the best Old Maple experience. One of the reasons is because you actively update and modify the game to be more fun and fair, which is why I want to add my short rant about the cursed niche gameplay class that is the Permas/islanders. They really are the monks of the game. Back in EuropeMS we used to have a larger community (logical as the playerbase was far bigger than Royals) and at least there were a handful of people suffering the ascetic life of a perma mutually. I’ve had several conversations with people on ideas and also have some of my own that would help maybe, just maybe, get more players engaged with the challenge of playing a beginner, as it seems nowadays I never see such characters. Even the islander maps are barren for weeks. I know the whole philosophy of abstaining from skills and items is the whole point of the class but it seems to me at least some item/quest/even semi useless new skill might help the gameplay not being so bleak. Our damage sucks, we have no skills, equipment sucks (Maroon Mop has beginner exclusivity, but once you get a good one, virtually its all you can really upgrade weapon wise to lvl 200). My suggestion (and I know I might sound vague, but I am open to absolutely any update or addition of any sort, even symbolic ones, and I think any future perma/islander would also appreciate) is to consider if we can add any beginner exclusive 1. item 2. challenge/medal 3. quest 4. skill (is it even possible?) 1. ITEM - an item would be any that actually adds just a little bit of an edge over what we have now; perhaps im willing to theorize it could a speed boost of shoes with dex that only a beginner can wear and scroll or an alternative for the maroon mop. I see no aparent reason why a “Deluxe Maroon Mop” for lvl 100, beginner only with enhanced stats, might not be a good boost, seeing as it would never get in the way of other classes. (We wouldn’t care if its just a recolored old asset of a mop). 2. MEDAL/CHALLENGE – a medal that adds more HP or maybe even % exp gain when worn after a super hard to complete challenge is completed might be a great incentive to grind out quests/challenges 3. QUESTS – quests of any kind to aid leveling or give untradable beginner only rewards (that way it wont impact the market) ; a new weapon added using a quest that is truly an upgrade to the mop would be insane and worth 20 quests. 4. SKILLS – this one would be too good to imagine; I cant possibly think a new skill can be implemented as this is in no way a high demand thing to be even considered, but I cant help but think a weaker, far weaker rework of Slash Blast that does 80% of the normal attack, but hits 4 targets or something. We have mana bars that we never ever use and perhaps that would make the gameplay at least a bit more dynamic. (Everything I mention above includes islanders of course. One idea I’ve seen mentioned is if we can have Islanders somehow socialize (FM) without being able to trade or buy things as to not break the game. Obviously not any wish should be granted. A new map for islanders that has mobs of a bit of a higher level that is also locked away with a level requirement of 50 or so would be outstanding, but again I’m no hyperfocusing on specifics.) It gets dire once you hit lvl 50-60. I’m currently lvl 88 and I plan on playing at least to 100. I’m using a 36lvl Maroon Mop. Maple weapons are practically obsolete. There will be no upgrade. I know the whole thing is such a niche part of the game, but I’m willing to bet that even non perma players would be glad to have a bit of variety for the underplayed class, and would gladly contribute ideas to the ones I’ve merely scribbled vaguely in this post. I can also engage in thinking about specifics if such a thing is considered in the future by providing concrete ideas. If any devs can give some insight on what can be done or what can be done easily, I pledge to contribute ideas to that category of change.
all these upgrades kinda ruin the Beginner part, no? this is a beginner. starter. freshly made. virgin. definition - a person who is beginning something or doing something for the first time : an inexperienced person. giving it skills from the get go and boosts and all that - isn't it just creating another class? or a beginner class on steroids? I'm all for revamping the beginner class, but, maybe smth smaller than that. I do like the idea of the untradeable rewards like medals and quests, but not too much (not the skills part or the items part). This is only my opinion, and i'm not a beginner / islander by any means, so it's a POV of someone who is not from "this world". Feel free to disagree / agree / completely trash on my opinion as you see fit
Yes I too am weary of overdoing it. I was not suggesting ALL of the changes to be made in a revamping manner, rather one or two new additions as small as an item + medal or some configuration that would not ruin the ascetic experience. I think an item that is quite literally a better Mop or maybe an exclusive beginner helmet that kind of makes the beginner a bit less starved to death from stats, but still vastly vastly weaker compared to any other character, might be reasonable. Hyperbolic example, but would a 30 dex (default stat) mop, with 7 slots to scroll really ruin the playstyle or other characters or any balance of game or market aspects? My mind is looking for "goals" and perhaps some vanity/token items or maybe a SLIGHT boost of progress that doesn't even compare to what weak, underfunded warriors or any other class do at lvl 50.
It's rather more for new members and keeping things a micro-bit fresh for the playstyle. I doubt any beginner past level 40 would consider taking up a job just because "its boring". It will always be boring, but slight update of something small would be a treasure for the whole (however dying) community. A new item or at least viable 1h + shield alternative that might be slightly better than the current end game stuff for us, quest gained, untradeable, would not have any negative influence on the philosophy or game at all, I think.
I think we could modify [Three Snail] for [Beginner], allowing the skill to level up to 4, 5, 6... or higher after completing certain Beginner-exclusive quests at levels 40, 50, 60, etc. The upgraded skill could unlock the following things: Attack power scales based on ATT gear. Attack power varies depending on the thrown ect. The variety of thrown ect increases as the skill level goes up.
Thats actually a clever upgrade on the now majorly useless skill past level 10 or so. I would love to see that and I'd love for it to be a hard one to complete or require a high level so its a long grind to get it (level/questline/whatever). EDIT: Also, now that I think about it, a similar approach to Nimble Feet would be even more enjoyable and fun. Just for the example of it, I could imagine a second and third level of Nimble Feet being unlocked with a challenge and level requirement that increases the speed/and or length of the boost. Instead of 1min cooldown it can be progressively shortened and be active longer or any combo of that sort. I have recently checked out my islander and have realized that any damage/hp/item boost is almost useless, so with the Islander perspective, it seems a speed boost (or similar mechanic that adds fun instead of "performance" and stats grind) would add more than any new big weapon. That also goes for permas outside of Maple Island. If some form of Nimble Feet is possible that is actually useful that would be exceptionally well received by the community I think.
I don't mean to double post but I think the idea warrants a bump. DONATION/CHARITY MECHANIC and MEDAL/ITEM I don’t know if this is even possible but what if a charity box npc be placed in Maple Island where islanders can donate mesos and etc items (ores, which are useless here, mesos even more so) and even well scrolled dex shoes or whathaveyou, and somehow those items can be sent at random or some form of distribution event once a month, to players below a certain level. Money on Maple Island is absolutely deadweight and with such a system at least its (even if randomly and with a cap on how much a person can get) being used by someone. Sort of like Maple Island is Santa’s little helpers place sending packages and presents anonymously. A one directional gifts funnel. Surely an easy to implement medal or an item that has untradable symbolic stats that would be exclusive to Maple Island (by virtue of the donation box NPC being exclusive) is not that complicated to add. Maybe some form of milestones for donating -- it doesn't even have to have any stats afaik. Again the goal isn't to make the game easier, but to have some checkpoint and long term goals that might be really hard to achieve, but the goals are at least concrete rather than pure self LARP imposed ones.
Why new content for something people decided to do themself? Create content for like such a small player base instead of benefiting the whole community with a good opdate. Sorry its a no for me
Never did this challenge but i think some stuff might be good for a hardcore experience : Daily quests for lv 10+ which scale exp for every 5 or 10 lvs ( just a xp boost, not something that ppl whold stay on sland to lv up). Area bosses that only higher lv or a party of beguinners can kill. A craft npc and some exclusive beguinner equips so people can make better gear for the new challenge and have something to farm while grinding. Upgrade of current skills to be relevant for the area bosses, maybe only upgrade though quests and/or mastery books? Maybe a "end game" boss so islanders have something to aim. Just some ideias to try to make the island fun but that wont effect the outside.
They could make the expirence more fun so people who dont want to level another char to 200 can try something diferent. So much stuff can be done just moving some monsters and npcs that we already have. Could even add nx itens or some kind of reward people could tranfer to outside char to show off their hard work on island.
I like some of those. Problem of course would be the supply-demand problem of there's barely 50 people doing this (even if you include perma offlanders) so the demand is low and the supply for some of these (integrating it in the game) would cost too much man effort, that is why I try to focus more on the easier ones like reskinned items and simple changes instead. Daily quests for leveling are tricky as we don't wanna make it too easy, but a boss (that requires you to be +100) that spawns at a small hidden map would be exciting and a refreshing new addition.
The game already supports unorthodox builds. The whole maple items are a sign that the game has evolved with the originl developers intending to expand the idea of playing a beginner (islander not so much) or a DEXless/LUKless class. There are specific higher level beginner items (higher than lvl 10) that are intended to be used by permas. The Maroon Mop is an obvious example. The argument is that even a mini addition to the game would help the players feel there's a new horizon to look at, and the class requirement makes it so it doesn't interfere with the economics of the game or possible exploits. Every year permas/islanders reemerge to get the anniversary items and hopefully scroll them as best they can before the event runs out. I can imagine if long term acquired items or other non-event ones are added, would bring much joy to the ones committed to this playstyle. Otherwise "Why new content for something people decided to do themself?" -- just make it impossible for a beginner to level past lvl 10 and remove all the content that is there already for them to perma with. The game is clearly in support of such a niche.
I would propose that beginners have at least a simple hit bonus, which varies in mastery, accuracy and being able to use, sword, shield, axe, spear and pole arm, and that instead of receiving 5 ap, receive 10 in order to maximize the secondary attribute and thus have a more balanced attack, as I experiment with my character, each dex point balances the att of my status, also depending on whether I reach the maximum I suppose it would work, although it is a lot of work for the developers, although to be honest, if they had a salary I bet they would do everything even faster, sorry the last thing was sarcasm: V or I am also forbidden to joke!
I have a Lv56 islander and Lv62 perma-beginner and basically exclusively play odd jobs on this server, so I'll put in my two cents. Islanders First I want to acknowledge all of the islander-specific features that have been added recently. Last summer, many beach-themed items and chairs were added to the cooler chests which drop all across the maple world. While this change was available to everyone, it's clear this addition was a gift for islanders, since all of those items were already commonly available for regular players. This was a great change that injected some rare items into the island economy. We also recently got custom tilesets on our favorite grinding maps (thanks Becca!) for summer and christmas, to match the seasonal look of amherst and other main towns. This cosmetic change is just the sort of thing islanders love- especially ones like myself that tend to only play during events. Last christmas was the first year (that I'm aware of) that islanders could participate in the daily Advent quest, which provided a number of previously unavailable seasonal chairs. This was much appreciated. Also the christmas before, we submitted feedback to have the maplemas star costs from santa reduced because the drop rate was the same globally which made it very difficult to buy items like ice throne chair. We're happy the devs quickly reduced the prices to make the event feasible for islanders. Overall, I think Maple Island is in a good spot, with Anniversary, Christmas, Halloween, and now Summer events all having significant effects on the island. Unfortunately the islander community is not very active right now, so I don't think it would be advisable to spend development resources on any additions at this time. In the future, if islanding becomes popular again, I think these are the changes that would be most impactful: - An ETC exchange similar to the one in showa town, where a stack of 200 of a monster ETC can be exchanged for an item selected randomly from a set pool. Ores could also be included for a different reward pool. The exchange could have things like red shells and attack potions as the filler prizes, and the rares could be chairs, off-island beginner equips (not mop, just cosmetic ones like black gomushins, wisconsin hat, etc), and possibly more varieties of 10% scroll, since islanders love scrolling useless gear. Adding 10% weapon scrolls for rarely-used weapon like 2h sword (pumpkin lantern) could mix up the meta. I have an exhaustive list of ideas for these exchanges if the idea ever gets considered. - Changes to beginner skills, especially 3 snails, to make them more viable, could be interesting. Being able to reach 80 damage would be a boon for fighting mushrooms, and having shorter endlag or midair casting would be great. But there'd need to be more ways of getting shells to make it truly viable. - Adding an area boss (ideally one hard enough that it's not feasible to solo) to a place on maple island that requires a certain amount of speed/jump to reach (or requires walking through a bramble that does ~300 touch damage, effectively gating it to Lv.20+) could be very interesting. The drop table would have to be custom, since most bosses drop 60% scrolls that don't fit with the islander scrolling meta. - An islander medal for reaching a milestone level (like 50 or 75) would be great. - Reverting or taking another look at item tag colors, since scrolling is a big part of the grind and not being able to see the difference between a +1 and +5 10% scrolled item is disappointing. - Bringing back the rankings page on the website would be really cool. I've been maintaining an unofficial ranking in the Islander Guide, but having an official list would increase motivation to climb. Perma-beginners Here are the major problems I've felt with playing a perma-beginner: 1. Leeching exists - It sort of kills my drive to play perma-beginner when I know that someone could easily leech one to 200 with enough mesos. Perma-beginners are usually solo and no strangers to hardship, so the solution to this would be to change the exp formula so that beginners can't get party or PQ EXP from non-beginners. (I don't know how bad the spaghetti code would be to make a change like that). 2. Mastery - Playing a class with no mastery is rough- and yes, I know this is what beginners signed up for. But it also is what puts a wall on their progress, because even if you have a big ol' mop, when your min damage is this low, you can easily hit 3 or 4 whiffs in a row, and with a 9-speed weapon, it's just torture. Having either a beginner skill for mastery or a passive increase in the formula would help substantially. Or, the other solution- 3. Slow weapons are bad - Making more high level options that are 4-speed or 3-speed (but lower damage than mop of course) would help tremendously, because it's not so bad whiffing on low damage hits if your attack speed is high. It all averages out. Adding perma-beginner medals and making bosshunter gear wearable would also be fun additions. I don't think an upgraded 3 snails skill would actually help perma-beginners, since both options are single target and the beginner kill speed is slow enough that the extra range doesn't matter. For perma-beginners who want access to skills, I recommend trying a perma-1st-job character, where you try to take a 1st job character to higher levels without advancing.
Lovely write up. Very reasonable. Agree with almost all of it, especially the leeching. I've recently discovered the Ironman stuff (props btw, very admirable and discipline exposing) and I wish I had labeled my self as something from the start, since I've been playing basically almost singleplayer on my lvl 88 perma. I've never leeched or PQed and never even attempted to figure out washing lol. I most definitely dislike the idea of leeching for a "ascetic" class such as a perma. An official rankings page would be very motivating to some. Your point about the Mastery is very very valid as well. The slow weapon point too - if only there was a viable option to use a sword+shield that wasnt twice as weak as the mop.
I really like these ideas, so I’d like to propose some follow-up discussion points. Perma-Beginners I see this as more of a class with few or no skills, and the proposed [Three Snail] modifications also explore its potential to interact with other classes. They would need to purchase various types of ECT items from other players, primarily from Mages, but they could also buy ECTs through attackers to gain higher attack power ect (similar to NL). Since this server already has a mature environment, the issue of leeching is unavoidable. Therefore, I think there are still many unexplored possibilities in the 150–200 non-leeching range,. Restricting leeching from granting EXP could also be a solution, but for such a change to be viable, it’s important to consider the possibility of collaboration with other classes. Islanders This is an interesting way I hadn’t considered before. Imagine discovering an unknown cave along the island’s coast, leading to a hidden deep place… the reward could be something like special NX items, which can be transferred to the outside world via the Cash Shop, encouraging more players to try to become an Islander. Skills Aside from [Three Snail], the other two beginner skills might also need adjustments to enhance the Islanders’ unique exploration experience: [Nimble Feet] – (I prefer not changing the cooldown). Instead, increasing speed/jump as the skill levels up. Perhaps Jump could be raised to 130/140/150, creating level-based movement restrictions for new places. [Recovery] – Originally just a small potion-saving skill in early levels, so it could be modified in two ways: Grant invincibility for a short duration. Increase HP recovery and make more maps with potion restrictions(e.g. Dojo), making it more useful in specific survival challenges.
Beginner content is always fun to think about. Even something as simple as a daily quest that buffs attack speed, crit, exp gain, min damage for like an hour or two would be fun, or letting them throw mossy shells from a buffed 3 shell at 120 (4 shell, does extra lines, crit, etc), or after completing the ellin quest line really isn't much to ask for and just makes playing them more fun. Extra exp from pqs (like 1.5), double token ceilings daily, and a daily quest that has mobs drop scuffed gach tokens that they can gach with would be fun and simple, and add in some fun beginner eq to the scuffed gach, and unique nx, or beginner only token rewards I will never understand the beginner haters or naysayers, bc nobody is saying make beginners viable, even if my suggestions here were implemented, they're audaciously hard to level and leech, it's just a lot more fun to actually play. Nothing would change if beginners passively got 65% mastery or a 30% chance to hit two lines, or a 10% crit chance, or extended duration feet buff, or could equip manos shell like a zhelm, it's just fun
