In Discussion Post-Animation Dispel & Damage Reflect

After yesterday's update, some bugs we have encountered:
1. between the start of DP animation and the actual DP, sometimes I saw the notification unable to use the skill under current stat but was still able to attack
2. a party member got 199,999 even before we saw the rock animation on VL's hand. Rock went down a few sec after he/she got 199,999

Spoiler

And the rock/golem stays.. @zid112119d

3. our MM DCed too (ch 8). So it was a 10.5-man run with half NL..

Delayed DP helps low HP bishops to survive VL much easier as they can teleport away when they see the animation (like 1 sec of animation and 2 sec of delay time), and allows NL's to flash jump away to save stars (unfortunately no. NL still gets dp if they are in the vicinity when VL DP animation starts. (Before the change, a 4k bishop needs to track DP time to run away and survive. ty for hosting low hp BS run @veen11 )
I personally would prefer no delayed DP. I always watch the buff icons to see if there is DP. My lvl 99 priest has about 1.7k hp and did not die from DP at Balrog. Lowering ordinary attacks damage (so low level mages could survive) could be a substitution for delayed DP time.

And plz increase DR damage (to kill warriors and buccs if they are not paying attention) @Sylafia

 

Hi Matt,

I hope this message finds you well, I believe there is a game-breaking bug with the new dispel changes. In two back-to-back VL runs both our Paladin and SE DCed during the dispel animation.

Here are the two clips below:

https://tinyurl.com/pallydc

https://tinyurl.com/marksmandc

 

I was the MM that dced in one of those runs. I can't remember the last time I've dced in a VL, it is definitely not a common thing for me.

If I remember correctly, my game screen went black for like a second and then the game closed itself with no error message (I could be remembering wrong though - I don't have it recorded). Our run was on channel 8.

The DC happened right when one of the DPs happened (not the start of the DP animation, but right when the effect of DP was applied I think), while I was in the middle of actively attacking VL himself.

 

VL run dcing two DK and 1bishop after this update. feel weird might have something related to update and dispeling now delays too much that now it comes at the same time with the next skill (like lightning or claw) that might kill our non-18k hp bishop or shad.

runned at ch11
one dced and back to login page with error 'cannot connect to server'
two client crash

 

Hi Matt, I am the BM that dc’ed in one of the runs. I dc’ed to the log in screen but I don’t remember the message I got (nothing special just a generic one I believe). The 1st (I was on BM) was on ch9 and the 2nd run (Anglerfish was on MM) was on ch8.

 

Quick update with more details on the DCs/Crashes:

First run:

• Pally and BM both DC'd (wasn't recording so can't confirm if during dispel)

Second run (completely different group btw):

• Different Pally and MM DC'd this time
• 100% during dispel animations (got VOD proof now)

What's peculiar:

• These players NEVER DC normally - we run together all the time
• Only happens right after Von Leon does his dispel thing
• Always hits Pallys and BM/MMs specifically

Feels like the new dispel changes are breaking something for these classes.

I've got the VOD timestamps if you need them. Seems like some of the said DCed players have replied already, however I'm happy to help with any other questions

 

Come to think of it, my pally client d/c'd randomly (all my other clients stayed) during a HT today. It's really rare for me to d/c as well, but just had a thought based on what @andywtf said. Maybe the crash is related to how pallys, bm, and mms have persistent buffs that don't get dispelled regularly (crash, hamstring, blind)?

 

Victim here.
What happened yesterday, as i remembered, is like VL dp > VL tp to left > I got instant death with no rock animation while walking to VL> VL summon golems > instant death again after ress > I saw a sneaky golem bugged next to me > VL tp to right > jail > ress successfully.
That invisible rock is truly horrifying.

 

After you changes the dp to happen after the animation ends we did a vl run and tbh the dp timing feels so bad. There is a huge delay (probably because the animation is long) and it makes everything way more awkward. It felt like it slowed us down we couldn’t rebuff as quick as before now this might be an habit thing which we will get use to over time but I also wanna mention few more things:
First is that now vl is way more dangerous for mages. The dp happening late shorten the window to re cast mg and Vl can cast an attack causing the mages to die ( I’ve seen it happen to a very experienced bishop alr)
another thing is now rebuffing is more dangerous too you can get stuck while mw and vl just drops rocks on you or stun + rocks or laser
Another thing I’ve witnessed is as a sair I can’t dismount the whole animation preventing me to get closer to the buffs I need and it seems like if I try to dismount it just recast ship and I stay on it. I didn’t quiet figured out what exactly going on with the ship but it feels very akward

 

1. Can you tell us what it is? So people who still have vl runs can know what to avoid using?
2. Id argue that the dp change wasn't really needed, the feedback people gave was for DR specifically and I don't think dp being delayed is needed/is a great change.
Maybe just revert that one back to normal?

 

+1
I think the old dispel was way better since it allowed mages to put MG (either magic guard or mesos guard) back up while the dispel animation played. Currently every dispel feels like a double animation and there is more chance to get hit by a high damage skill such as lightning before having the chance to rebuff.

The same goes for HT, using audio cues to rebuff essential skills such as MG feels harder since you both have to react and time your skills rather than just react.

 

At least in VL, I feel like this change made the run more difficult (in a bad way). you see the dp annimation, you stop attacking for like 5 seconds until you actually get dped, then you need to rebuff and it becomes very likely that while you are rebuffing (especially MW or shaodw partner and other long annimation buffs), VL would already use rocks / laser and you can do nothing about it. With the old DP you had the time to rebuff until he cast another annimation.

 

I would have to test it out but that kinda sounds like the best of both worlds to me at least.

Trying this out for one run, I actually liked having at least *some* advance notice of a dp coming. For mm it's helpful if I'm midway charging piercing arrow and i know dp is about to hit, i can time it so I release it before the dp happens and be ready to rebuff right away instead of being stuck in a PA that will do half damage without SE and then rebuffing late because of it. During critical times where golems/doubles are out that can make a difference.

I was also looking forward to this for my unwashed bs that will one day try vling, i think it would give me a better chance to get away from the gargs in time.

The current timing is really problematic, I'll agree 100% on that. But I think with better timing it could still be a worthwhile change rather than scrapping this altogether in my humble opinion

Thanks for looking into this so quick!

 

Tested VL and the dispel needs to get used to but it feels very good and playble at the current implementation.
Thank you for the fast hotfix

 

I've tried both vl and balrog after the change, and the new DR and DP felt bug-free so far.
The new Balrog DR felt really good. Low hp players will definitely have plenty of time to react to the animation. I do want to see DR lethal to all classes implemented with this change as proposed by @Sylafia. That will really help with class diversity. Though if that happens, there should be some adjustment on either DR duration or Balrog's hp to address the DPS loss from warriors. Also, not sure if this is intended, I noticed DR and Zombify share the same animation, which could be confusing sometimes, but that shouldn't be a problem after getting used to it.
The new "skillAfter" DP in VL felt smooth but slightly awkward since we're already used to the old timing. I don't play mage in VL, but I can see the delayed DP gives mages a few extra frames to TP away from mobs in advance, though the recommended 8k hp requirement probably wouldn't change, since gargoyles still hit from miles away. Personally, I prefer the old DP timing, but not against the new one.
I do see some potential with this new delayed DP mechanism. For example, if DP is reactable/dodgable for CWK pirate boss, the experience will be way smoother for range attackers. (For those who want to go test it out, the DP animation is when the pirate boss jumps up without shooting, and the cd is around 20sec)
Overall, I had very pleasant experiences with the new boss. I'm really happy to see the staff having lots of communication with the players and taking feedback very seriously. It's even more exciting to know that some changes/improvements here will contribute to our long-awaited pb. Really excellent work! Thank you to all the staff who worked hard on this!

 

Did my first VL run since the change. The dp animation makes sense and it adds a level of risk especially in body 3, instead of just being a free animation. You might need to cancel your buff macro and reposition. I run on drk and before I had ample time to cast hb, stance, booster, and mw. Now it's slightly less free.
I like it. Good change.