In Defense of Cheesecake

Here is the KS thread.

http://royals.ms/forum/threads/cheesecake-ks.18807/#post-107842

It is said that OneTheory was abusing mapowner, so idk how yall feel about that one. Little or no evidence on both sides.

 

A bit off topic but

Even if none of the opinions posted here are ultimately taken into account by the GMs, I think it's a great way for the community to discuss. This General Discussion part of the forums has been created as a place for people to voice their thoughts; no matter whether you think Gossamer's posts are stupid or not, I don't think it's your place to be scorning this thread so much. Who knows, this thread may actually lead to the alleviation of one of Cheesecake's more questionable bans, as galbi stated somewhere earlier. At the very least, the topic gives food for though among the community, while for select individuals, such as friends of Cheesecake, can use this as a chance to try and justify Cheesecake's past actions and help him.

 

comic from xkcd
Nothing else to say but that. Justice has been served. If you don't like it, take your toxic ideals elsewhere.

 

Lmao its general discussion for a reason. If you have a problem with this thread even though it is not directed to you at all, then disregard it. Oh wait that sounds like the way Cheesecakes smega should've been handled.

 

I wasn't saying it's illegal to ban him, I was saying it's unjust and not right to ban him. Also, I would like to quote what Christine said in the Report on Cheesecake for Ksing: :he individual that is the map owner is allowed to do as he or she pleases. If such an individual does not want you in their map, you are required to leave.". Nowhere in the ToC does it state that a person must leave the map. I cannot see a single reason why Cheesecake was banned for Ksing.

 

There's a post you can't see because it was deleted (deleted by me for being off-topic in a report abuse thread), you're defending the wrong person in this [KSing] situation:

Please keep your own post, on-topic.

 

Well, I think we can all agree that Cheesecake is rude xD But in the world of fair trial and judgment, we try to look deeper than the initial vibe you get from someone. If I were to "ban" every person from my life who is rude to me, I'd probably be a serial killer.

 

That doesn't change the fact that he KS'd someone, which is against the rules. I was speaking specifically for that situation and you trying to justify it. I have nothing to add to his permanent ban.

 

Oh. I thought you were just saying I shouldn't be defending him because he's crass and rude. I don't quite pick up on how that post proves he was in the wrong, but it may just be because I don't understand what he is trying to say. Just looks like a emotionally-driven insult, to me. From what I've heard he was KSing because OldTheory was abusing MapOwner with mules. A little old-fashioned vigilante justice, but of course, it's all hearsay, but worthy of being put on the table, imo. :3 No hard feelings of course! The post just confuses me, I think.

 

I would like to point out what @maggles said.
Cheesecake didn't knew that his next ban would be a perma ban since when he got banned for saying ''s>nigglets'' [2nd ban] it was considered first offense, and he was banned for 3days. Although personally I dont think he should be banned for the ''All Hail hitler'' I find it highly unlikely he would've smega'd it if he were told that his next ban would result in a permanent one.

 

Isn't this exactly like this report?
http://royals.ms/forum/threads/reporting-iproxied-for-ksing.27725/
That was a just decision ^, (He got unbanned)

OldTheory did the exact same thing only he went into all channels and took mapowner and killing several channels at once, that ban should be reconsidered.

 

Cheesecake didn't defend himself (as most people do), instead insulted oldtheory which insinuated that the intention of KS'ing was there. Hence a rightful ban.

 

@jmmainvi (initial reportee) felt that a permanent ban was too harsh and retracted his report. That's why.

 

On a somewhat separate note. I am curious how the banning process works. Do GMs have to ask for permission to ban someone or chat or something? Or does every GM have the power to ban someone on the spot? Pure curiosity. I don't expect any answer. It'd just be cool to know.

 

This chat is getting even more off topic. Why don't you direct message them instead? Why did this thread become a "How to Be a Maple Royals GM 101"?

 

Apparently yeah... Maybe eventually these fools will grow up.

+1

 

What I am most concerned about is the fact that Cheesecake's actual 3rd offense was in March. The first two were in January & the third took place in March. Why was this not taken care of earlier (at the time of his 3rd offense) and being brought up now, two and a half months later? What does this make y'all people look like?

Also,

impreciate is right. I've been in many Skype calls/conversations with Ray. You people don't know him. He does not say these things to "stir up controversy" or make a "joke" or be "edgy." Honestly, he talks about Hitler a little more than is necessary. He genuinely admires Hitler and his leadership capabilities. In fact, many people admire his charismatic personality, but everyone so closely associates Hitler with the Holocaust that they become narrow-minded & ignore all of the positive things Hitler did for Germany, such as bringing Germany up to become a world power after World War I. Nothing can make up for the fact that Hitler led the mass-murder of not only Jewish people, but also gypsies, Communists, & other folk, because that was actually horrendous, but we all fail to see the bigger picture. Ray was merely voicing his opinion. ARE WE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE OPINIONS NOW ?

In my opinion, Ray is fighting a losing battle. He should be trying to appeal his first offense (OldTheory&Lyka) rather than his third offense (All Hail Hitler). In OldTheory's screenshots, you can see that the Lyka is not dead in the first one, and it is still not dead in the second one (HP bar is still up and OldTheory's EXP did not increase by enough for Lyka to have been killed). Cheesecake is also shown to be on the left side of the map in the second screenshot, while OldTheory is attacking the Lyka towards the right side. There is no real proof of Cheesecake actually killing Lyka (as shadowers can't attack from that far anyway) and "stealing [his] nx." To me, Cheesecake saying "wat a dick" seems to be a parting remark before he change channels away from OldTheory and a still-alive Lyka.

 

I will be abstaining from the actual vote (not that it makes a difference) because I cannot be unbiased. Part of me wants to defend Ray because he's in Booblivion and has never done anything to wrong me personally, so I have no reason to want him banned. However, as a half-Jew, I cannot, in good conscience, defend someone who publicly shouts "ALL HAIL HITLER," no matter the context. Also, he wrote, "The Jewish race" in his ban appeal, which is not only politically incorrect, but is just flat-out wrong and incredibly ignorant-sounding. Despite my lack of voting, I would like to give my two cents in one confined location, as it is somewhat difficult to gather all of one's thoughts in alliance chat.

The discussion here seems to have several facets to it. There's the issue of whether or not the smega was ban-worthy at all. There's the issue of the harshness of the rules. There's the issue of his old KS thread. All of these things on their own aren't too much to handle. However, all of them together seem to be creating an issue that's larger than each problem individually.

The way I see it is like this. Forget, for a moment, about the fact that he already had two prior offenses, and that a third offense is a perma-ban. Ray showed an inordinate amount of stupidity by smega-ing that at all. But it raises the question as to whether or not it would have even been a first-ban, let alone a third. The problem with banning him for that smega, as offensive as it is, is that it develops into a slippery slope as to what becomes bannable. If I say "all hail satan," is that bannable? What about Lee Harvey Oswald (guy who shot JFK)? It becomes even more obscure than that - In this report thread ( http://royals.ms/forum/threads/reporting-mcm00yun.27714/ ), a guy was reported for harassment. Not trying to defend him at all, by any means, but scroll further down the post. His name is apparently an insult to a former Korean president. I had no idea. I would be willing to bet that the majority of the server didn't know. But nevertheless, his name got changed. I know that was a little long-winded, but it makes sense - Would I be banned for bashing some former president? Apparently it was enough to warrant a name-change, so why not a ban? The point is, it's a slippery slope. What would make Hitler ban-worthy, but not Satan? Or maybe John Wilkes Booth? My point is - as it stands right now, the N word and the F word (not f**k), are the only two bannable words. If hailing Hitler becomes bannable, we can't see where the line is when someone else gets banned for something insensitive.

As for the harshness of the rules - they've been that way since the beginning (for all I know - I've only been here since November). The three-strike rule is there for a reason, and I doubt it's changing anytime soon, despite the apparent harshness. There have been posts about whether Ray knew that he was on his second strike. That's not an excuse. We've seen time and time again that ignorance of the rules is no exception for punishment.

The old KS thread? As Christine wrote, Ray's lack of self-defense and blatant insult is pretty glaring. His intention was to KS, despite the rumor (without pictures, they're nothing more than unsubstantiated rumors) that OldTheory was abusing ~mapowner to hold multiple maps. That can't be used without proof, and even if the proof did exist, Ray still did break the rules. Instead of KSing, the proper thing to do would have been to ~GM for help, or maybe write a thread in the abuse section. Nevertheless, that report has been dealt with and closed, so it is irrelevant to this one.

Finally, about his "defense" in that he was praising Hitler's good attributes; one cannot objectively deny that Hitler was a great leader and a great public speaker, among other things. Now, by no means does that forgive the Holocaust, but Ray claims that he was simply referring to Hitler's good qualities with his smega. Personally, I think that's a load of crap. I can only speculate on what Ray was thinking, but anyone with a modicum of common sense would know that smega-ing "ALL HAIL HITLER" would be questioned and received extremely negatively. If he really wanted to have an educated discussion on Hitler's good qualities, he would have smega'd something like "Despite popular belief, Hitler was actually a really good leader" or "Does anyone want to discuss Hitler's positive attributes?" Maybe even say it in guild chat or buddy chat. But he chose the inflammatory route instead.

The odds of seeing Ray unbanned are extremely unlikely. I am sad to see him gone, but I do think a ban is warranted. A permanent one? Maybe, maybe not. But that's not for the peanut gallery to decide. Nearly every Sunday for 12 years of my life, and sometimes on occasion now as an adult, for high holidays or my grandparents' respective yahrzeits, I attend services at temple. And in the prayer book, we collectively read a passage that contains a line that reads something to the extent of, "We shall never forget the six million who perished in the Shoah (Holocaust)." While I personally don't take offense to the smega, I can see how it might offend others who were more closely impacted. I have friends with grandparents who are holocaust survivors, or people whose grandparents died in it. It's not too far-fetched to think that others on this server might have been negatively impacted.

I do not believe that the smega should be unpunished, but I do believe a permanent ban is a little harsh. Eventually, the three-strike rule is going to be revisited. When? To what extent? Nobody knows. But I believe a case like this demonstrates how permanent bans are not handled with the gravity that they should be. Hackers, vote abusers, maybe account sharers - these are things that should be permanent bans. But I think bans like KSing, harassment, inflammatory speech need to be treated like getting locked out of an iPhone. After getting locked out, a person cannot operate the phone for like a minute. After entering the code incorrectly again, the restriction becomes longer. And longer. And longer. To my knowledge, a person cannot be permanently locked out (I could be wrong - I don't have an iPhone). The point is, I think the next ban should last 14 days. Then 30 days. Then 60 days. These "minor" reports don't warrant permanent bans, in my opinion, unlike hackers or intentional glitch abusers. Obviously, what we say here has no impact on Ray's situation. It sucks to see him go, but at the same time, the GMs' jobs are to enforce the rules in an objective manner, and they have succeeded in their responsibilities.

EDIT: From what I am hearing, it sounds like Ray is just a nice guy with a dark sense of humor. That's fine. I have my own dark side, as I'm sure everyone does. But when that dark side comes to light and is broadcasted over smegas, it becomes an issue for everyone. The amount of common sense it takes to think twice before smega-ing something like that is not very hard to obtain.

 

Ray is harmless. He's just a goof with questionable amounts of logic & common sense.