Honestly the hardest content to solo is PQ's (And I've definitely tried) For OPQ for example. I only 'profit' if I bring 4 or more alts. With the 2x tokens and 2x exp, we see more people go into this content. Ultimately we have to remember whatever they change players are going to try and min/max for. In old games you need new blood to keep things alive or the game slowly dies. Old School Maple knew this. Every time they released content 80% of the time it was for newer players and 20% for pros. We have to remember we don't need to 'remove mage farming' (I mean it's an extreme we could do) But we just need to make a 'good enough option. Min/Max players are going to go for a Maple Leaf, but most players are fine with a Rudolph Nose. We don't need to 'replace' High end bossing and Mage Farming. We just have to add content, that discourages 80% of players from wanting to be a mage farmer.
TL; DR: give PQs a meso incentive for finishing at around 1m/minute of fastest possible completion. Boost active party XP outside bosses Maybe boost meso and item drop rates with active party as well? Maybe also give meso up a boost? Hey there I’ve been playing royals for like a decade on and off. When I first started in the server leeching was like… for sweats. Most PQs had 2-3 teams in channel 1 at a time, or at least the main ones did. You spoke on how GMS kept the game alive with low level content and I agree. Personally I love low level content more than bossing. I loved that they added quest virtuoso and monster card medals as well as the tokens of teamwork for flower crown. i played a perma beginner a lot and got it to 71 mostly PQing. leech is so prevalent now, when I’ve talked to new players I seem em talking about quitting before even hitting 4th job because of the lack of PQ players or because of the difficulty spike to gain do after 3rd job. here would be my pitch for a fix: add meso rewards to pq’s Another buff to active party do (specifically outside bossing if possible) idk how quick each PQ can be ran but I’d love to see some speedrun tests on it to help dial these numbers in but the fastest possible time to run a PQ should be considered and then give bonus XP for the PQ roughly around 1m/minute. I never did OPQ much so I don’t have much input there, but LPQ due to box stage I’d increase a tad more. Make it like 2m/minute. this would in theory give low level players meso to buy mid tier gear which also seems harder to find in server. Seems everyone’s selling end game. Which makes sense in leech-story. The influx of meso to low level players would also mean they would be able to buy leech increasing demand for leech especially in that 90-110 range. I know what you’re thinking: but what about min makers?!? They’ll abuse HPQ and just run it all day! Good. Personally I’d rather be able to run HPQ for hours then sell leech, and if I get bored- I can hop over to kpq. I can make a steady wage and jump from one PQ to another. GMs rightfully will say “if players want to make meso, you can just smack mobs” true! It’s so much slower and more painful but it’s true, that being said I still think this would help overall with the economy my stimulation funds for newer players. And by keeping the meso/hr around 60m at best it would still be lower than selling leech or mage farming, but competitive enough that they might take a break here and there to run a PQ. ALSO back to that thing about smacking mobs. In conjunction with the struggle to keep players interested between 3rd and 4th job: increasing bonus cap for active parties outside of bossing. 4ish years ago there was a patch update where devs put in an buff to xp gained while actively attacking in a party. Me and some friends who liked grinding took advantage of this and found some fun mobs and found SE/SE and other 4th job buffing and then just grinding was more fun and better so than just grinding levels and free compared to orbis etc. (this was… late teens til 30) I suggested bringing this back if it went away and increasing it if it hasn’t. I would also say that boosting drop rates and meso amounts for active parties similarly would make getting monster cards, finishing quests, and farming more beneficial with actual friends. Idk what multi-mage farming looks like but if there’s a bunch in one map maybe the meso/item part of this would be too broken. one thing I talk about frequently when newer players ask about classes is the appeal for ropestory. it’s no secret there’s a NL meta. And the addition of LHC has helped people explore melee more I think. But the struggle of the night lord is simple: no mobbing skills til 3rd job combined with the worst hp/def in game. You might ask yourself, why would nexon make such a terribly fragile glass cannon? Especially in a game with such a grindy element to it. The answer is on maple island. when you first see the video of the different classes, the last clip you see is them WORKING TOGETHER. Maple is made to be a social experience. And as many in guilds will tell you- their favorite thing to do is play with friends. This class was made to PQ. THEY were meant to deal massive damage BEHIND the front lines. Speeding up boss fights and whittling down mobs while tanker classes kept mobs away and clerics healed in between. because HP washing is so prevalent most NL pump HP and find the APRS later making them damage less for a long time. With washing doing the least for them, it also makes the levels they have to was til higher. HP quest solved this for most classes but for NL it means still leeching even for HP quest. The solution? Make grinding worth it again! Hermit while it might not seem like it was one of the best farming party members to have! Not only does haste, something we take for granted now, shorten the time spent NOT attacking during a grind, but they also have MESO UP which if y’all don’t remember GMS meso rates, made a huge difference. Maybe buff that too? Idk I don’t play NL but I feel like if it was viable more leeches would run a MU mule. I think combining an increase ACTIVE party buff with meso rewards for PQ would encourage more players to play the game rather than skip 80% of content so they can boss. Exponential exp perhaps? For each party member that gets a kill within 4 seconds you get x% experience more per kill ? And PQs would be a nice alternative to leech/farm giving low level players funds to spend in the economy as well as revitalizing the PQs of the game giving low level players a boost as well. back 6+ years ago LMPQ was run pretty frequently. Not as much as LPQ which actually had people Acing multiple times to play- but enough you didn’t have to spend 9+ mil smegaing to try to find a party. And LMPQ is a great way to farm elixir/power elixir. Something that SELLS well in fm. at the end of the day there’s only 1 way to increase liquid meso into the economy and it’s through killing things. Merching/gacha only will get you used meso. Farmers are the primary source of new meso into the economy. If GMs give little treasure treats of large meso influx to PQ it’d seem less daunting then grinding all the meso you might need as a new player. this would also change the tune of the answer to new players question “how do I make meso?” From “stop playing the class you like and make a bishop or 4 arch mages” to “GO PLAY PQs!!!! Or grind a map with friends!!” another positive of the PQ meso: if we say each PQ nets you a couple mil, if your PQ slows down during times where there’s less players, every completion essentially could net you a Smega to fill any holes in your party from people leaving. Hpq: 1 smega Kpq: 1 smega + some extra CPQ is like 10 minutes long but also has crazy xp and often people run MANY of them due to the meso rate, introducing this to the server also killed LPQ/LMPQ/OPQ so perhaps less meso? 250k for a loss 350k for a win or something? LPQ: 15m? If your lucky you can speed run this but due to rope stage, and box stage this likely will take a while. And if for the same reasons this pq is a lot slower than say kpq to mule on. OPQ is like 25min from what I read so maybe 20m? LMPQ/ lightning quick, great XP, and tons of meso from the elixirs. I’d keep this one at like 333k/ run. This seems high but I think incentivizing LMPQ over CPQ2 which everyone already dreads doing due to winning being 90% of the worthwhile xp from this pq CPQ2 is put at 300k/ round for reasons listed above. I’d hate to incentivize this just for meso grinding especially with how easy it would be to farm with a few I/l mages. It would just become the new ulu archmage farm. When I left the server I remember onetwotree was leeching up some I/l to start selling cpq2 leech lol. ROMEO AND JULIET I forget what the time on this is but oki remember it being quick but the QUEST was annoying to try and complete because finding a party SUUUUUCKED. Maybe give this like 50m/hr rate. PPQ IS another elixir farm but perhaps because it’s painfully boring this might be ok to boost too at like 50m/hr rate Also somehow just learned lvl 90 is the min level for cwkpq? Wild. It’d be cool to see people run this as like a legit way to get to 4th job rather than another 4th job bossing grind for the grail items. Idk how to implement that but I think adding meso to this would be OK too. The prequests suck, if your running it you use a lot of pots, and this is probably the “pq” that gets the most smega use for it besides APQ. If you read this far thanks. Would love to hear some debate on this or other perspective as I’m writing this at 3am and I’m certain I missed some things and also would love to talk it out with others
1. How do you make it so that this idea is not being abused by RWTers? 2. How would the active party bonus not translate into mage farmer's benefit? 3. Same as question number 2 but for mesos up buff.
1.Can you expand on the RWT question I’m having a hard time seeing the correlation? RWT is going to happen regardless of what you do, there’s like a huge sad industry of it in countries with less stable economies as well as people who would rather play games for a living then something else. The GMs are real good about catching it though. Reading ban appeals is a riot. If you boost Mesos it won’t increase RWT, it’ll just increase the amount people might receive in their RWT. Not sure how PQ stuff would apply. If we worried about RWT too much in terms of what changes to make to the game we wouldn’t have much. LHC/von Leon increased gacha item acquisition as well as added new end game gear. That’s all stuff people might RWT for. Should we remove that content for fear of RWT? No, people will just RWT for different end game gear and get the same gach items from other sources 2&3 so If multimage is the ULU 1 set up I recall than it’s like 3 arch mages doing damage. Not sure what coding is like in server tbh but here’s some ideas Nerf the mages. Simple- not the first time they’ve done it either. Reduce drop rate for arch mages using ultimates specifically. This gets right to it. If possible maybe make the xp bonus scale on different classes? Like having a more varied party = more xp. This gets messier I think.
So lets say if doing any pq is going to provide you with mesos, that means that it is very abuseable by the hackers. The minimal level requirement to some of the PQs is really low and they could probably clear some of the PQs in less than a min gaining who knows how much. This implementation will add more workload to the current staff because they will have to monitor more places where RWT operations can take place. As for 2 and 3, I am a believer that if mage farming didn't happen the way it did right now, the server's deflation would be even worse. That is why all of the ideas I hope to see from the staff atleast at the start do not include simply nerfing mage farming but indirectly nerfing it by causing inflation and providing alternativs which can slowly and statistically make everything's cost go higher.
I still don't get your point? Are RWTer meeting up with clients in a PQ? How is a RWTer going to clear a PQ in less than a minute? Do they do this now in APQ, that only needs a level 40 after all....
lol put a captcha in for HPQ/KPQ On a real note though, I’m not experienced enough in RWT knowledge to judge that. I do know that after they removed level cap on PQs they needed the skills you can use on the map. From searching forums I found HPQ rushed can hit about 3 minutes minimum. Maybe for these lower PQs make it limited like roles of teamwork? Hpq/kpq only like 5-10 a day? in terms of not nerfing mage farming. It’s tough. I know a couple A/M that play because they like the class. These are the players that inevitably get hit the hardest from this. if we ignore this minority group the nerf to mages combined with the server wise buff it would even out- allowing mage farming to continue, but there being alternatives for everyone else. that being said, the party buff would work if these minority arch mages were working in a party as well to even out the nerf. Leaving the smallest most vulnerable minority to this: Ironman a/m I don’t think we need to stop mage farming, I think we just need alternatives for sure. My ideas aren’t perfect for sure but I like them as a jumping off point. Thanks for engaging, looking forward to responses
APQ is probably one of the worst form of contents for them to do since they will be very limited in the amount of boxes they can break requiring them to make it a party operation (lower revenue, probably not worth the risk for them?). As for other pqs, adding monetary incentives will 100% make them exploitable. This point does not relate to the general conversation and I believe that any form of mesos-gain solution won't be accessible to low levels content or solo-oriented content (assuming the staff won't make any decisions that will increase their workload). I support spitballing ideas. I went trough the proccess of thinking how ideas can be implemented by conversation with other players since this post was created. The questions I point out are the issues that came with the ideas that made me sway away from recommending them. If you have any ideas to remove these flaws and make them more better it might make the staff implementing them. I can only assume what are factors that the staff is considering when implementing content changes and adding new content. I have no official and direct contact with any staff members, that is what this post is for.
Again.... How does this make RWT easier? How is this different from a RWT seller as was your claim was who might mage farm and sell those mesos illegally. If for example they were doing KPQ (Since it's been the example we've been using) Then with having to get 60-80 passes from Ligators, how is this able to be cleared in one minute. If we're talking about LPQ/OPQ there's plenty of rooms with boxes that need to broken, You have not answered this or actually made your point. So far your argument has been nothing more than "If mesos are easier to get then RWT will be able to get mesos easier too" Wouldn't it stand to reason that a RWTer would want to maximize their mesos/hour and do mage farming?
Most RWT mesos is coming form botting and hacking probably. Considering all trades and item drops are being recorded and logged on this server, making a mage farming operation for the sake of RWT is not their MO. As for how the pq can be exploited? I rather not go into that conversation because that feels like giving them ideas which they might not be using. I am certain that a hacker on a level 30 account with 3 more level 21+ mules that only walk or teleport trough the maps can clear KPQ, HPQ and many other PQs in a short time, as a 1 man operation and gain mesos (if that idea was implemented) on all 4 mules.
So your argument is "hackers" not "RWTers" they're not the same thing. Okay, and what's stopping them from doing that in current content? There's several maps where I've reported hackers at least 3-4 times some of them with mobs a level 30 could kill easily... Since they don't have to walk around the map they're making a lot more than a normal 20-30m/hour farmer.... What's to stop them from farming Tokens of teamwork now with this same method. (Also literally you just make a log alert that anyone who clears more than say 5-10 PQs/hour generates an alert, which would make them easier to catch potentially) The point isn't that PQ has to be the only solution. The point is From level 1-50 you're basically farming your mobs and making 10-20m/hour at best. From 51-134, You've got a farming spot (For example Cleric/Priest and Coolies) at ~30m/hour Unless you're a mage which can now mage farm/leech at 120+ and make mesos galore 60-100m/hour+ For everyone else, Zak and Krex will basically reimburse your potions, but you're not really 'making money' until 170 At 40 you can theoretically APQ around 40-50m/hour.... Then you start making money with LHC/RG/HT/VL at 170+ So players without a mage have 170 levels of 30m/hour as their best money making rate and get told well you can 2-3x that if you had made a bishop first.... 6b in starting gear / 30m = 200 hours of grinding to 'start' being able to play post 135 content.... All I'm postulating is that somewhere between 50-170 there should be maybe a 40-60m/hour option for non-mages that isn't APQ Because if you tell a Bucc It'll take 200 hours to make 6b to start bossing at 135.... It'll take 100 hours (Random number pulled out of my ass) to make a bishop at 120...and then it'll take me 67 hours to make 6b...that's 167 hours instead of 200 I'm saying there needs to be something that makes that 6b in say 100-150 hours instead For most players that's good enough they don't need to make a mage. For a long term investor the mage farm still makes more per hour, but now only say 5% of players instead of 50% will choose to mage farm/make a bishop/mage.
You have made your point. As I already said before, if you have practical solutions you are welcome to suggest them. You keep making feedback about how hard it is to be a new player in this server which is irrelvant to the topic of the post which is fixing the deflation. Yes, Royals is a grindy snowbally game as old school maplestory used to be back in the days. Yes, rich gets richer. this has nothing to do with the topic of the post. If your only feedback is about inequality towards new players, I suggest making a sepearate feedback thread requesting early levels oriented gameplay. I am not gonna debate on that matter anymore since I disagree with you, we never gonna reach an agreement on that matter and it derails the conversation from the topic of the post.
Ok I went back through updates to find the changes I was referencing and find more: update 67 (2020) a new Bonus Party EXP system. Receive 5% of the monsters Base EXP per active party member, up to a max of 25%. A party member is considered active if they have killed a monster (i.e. whited a monster) within the last 30 seconds. The bonus only applies to monsters that you kill. update 69 (2020) wont list everything but many mobs had xp increased by almost double. Update 72 (2021) Buffed the Bonus Party EXP System from +5% EXP per active party member to +10% EXP Since the initial introduction of a custom Bonus Party EXP system in Update 67, we’ve been able to evaluate the effects it had on the meta, which did not achieve our goals. Given that a common request is for us to increase the viability of grinding, and especially partying up with friends, as a method of progressing through the game we’ve decided to bump up the numbers and see if it helps encourage a more social and co-operative gameplay style. As such, this buff may be subject to change! A refresher on how it works: You gain extra experience for the monster kills that you make and party member is considered 'active' if they have made a monster kill within the last 30 seconds, bosses are excluded. There is no further mentioned updates to whether this was buffed nerfed or left alone but seeing as a 10% buff didn’t change the leech meta I think another bump is worth a try. I’d like to try 15%. With a cap at 90 Since it seems ulu mage farming (correct me if I’m wrong) is typically 3 mages and a collector that is often typically not attacking ( if I’m understanding right) that would be 3 total attacking characters. Maybe a good way to increase alt meso farming would be increasing meso/ drop rate for active party grinding with 5-6 active players only? Trying to run 4-5 mages I imagine there wouldn’t be enough mobs to kill using the ultimates, and if people are leeching with this (is that a thing?) having 4 mages, a runner, and 1 leecher or 3 mages 2 leechers and a runner wouldn’t function well. Since the requirement is for a player to WHITE a mob not just deal some damage even if they tried reducing their tma to 2 shot mobs instead and double mages, it wouldn’t process the active party bonus and thus useless. I still Stan my PQ idea. After reading all the patch notes it seems like there has been numerous anti-cheat measures put in place over the 4 year stint I was gone. The fear of RWT in my opinion is short sighted. If we assume these people are botting. KPQ for instance spawns you randomly around kerning when you get out. If anyone’s in the channel they’re going to see a script likely of 4 people all running to the far left of the map and then back to the right or something which will be really obvious in a populated area unlike previous methods where they typically found dense but less populated maps (another problem with leech, less eyes on more maps for player reports) if we assume antibot/hack measures have improved significantly then we’re talking about someone actively trying to run 3 characters (drop one once entering the pq) through kpq. I feel HPQ is more vulnerable with a lower level requirement and less intensive pq. Perhaps to mitigate this HPQ meso rate can be better than none, but still real low. OH! Ok so the main trick for HPQ is to lure the mobs with a character and then just not kill anything so no new spawns. Why don’t we make the meso gain from the PQ drop directly from mobs. Run some test runs and see what the optimal kill rate is and how much you can max out the PQ timer and try to adjust it for like… 10m/hr? That seems fair to me. You may get botters still but 10m/hr is gunna be good for a low level player to get a fast travel pass lots and save some while still being low enough that if someone tried to solo PQbot to RWT their at best making 60m? (10/hr by 6 accounts) which is still significantly less than other methods of grinding while maybe making it enticing enough to be worth running. I also would love to see as a way to boost HPQ runs again and I feel like this is likely going to be OP somehow but Giving moon bunny hat a +500 hp on it. This would make going to zak as a thief easier if you can scroll one well and do some other hp stuff along the way. Leave the other stats tho moon bunny already pretty great tbh Looking forward to more discourse on my new message
how much mesos would you estimate/reckon a low level player would and should get from completing heneseys pq based off your idea?
