In Discussion Class/Skill [Feedback Request] Skill Changes and Balancing

It's been more than 4 years since this thread was created, asking for propositions.
I can't help but wonder if any of this is ever going to be implemented.

This is the one thing that can bring me back from a long hiatus...

 

what about for heroes hit more targets?

 

Its almost July now, and we don't have the first of two phases of balancing. GMs...whats goin on there?

 

Royals is like a bottle of wine, sitting away in the cellar. With time it ages into an aquired taste that not many people actually enjoy. But the ones that cherish it still drink it proudly.

Im just praying for shortened recoil shot cooldown. Im happy with that lol

 

look me in the eye and tell me that the balance team doesn't have a least favorite child

 

The fairies she summons are also coded to be bosses for some reason so seal doesn't even work on them. If you get stunned often and you don't have maxed Ifrit its just impossible

 

LETS FUCKING GOOOOO

 

... so why did we decide to not update skill descriptions of stackable skills? This seems like an awful experience for new players as there's no in game way for them figure out what stacks, except by painstakingly testing every single combo. If rage stacks with apple, why not my warrior elixir? If rage stacks with enrage, why not with dragon blood? If rage stacks with apple, why does Bucc energy charge not?

And no, don't answer my questions here, that's not helpful to new players. Answer it in-game, with changes to the skill descriptions

Or undo that as it's not a good buff to hero/AM, as described in my previous post about utility curves.

 

This will be a minus suggestion after the 1st part balance patch (i love it), i know GMs has more ideas on the way and this isnt over yet c;

Issue:

okay so after this patch GMs changed arrow bomb formula, i know can be weird to see ''bowmasters lvl200'' using 2nd job skill as main AoE attack, but now after that change bowmasters need to use inferno or arrow rain, inferno is a good skill but his dmg its low (even low if the mobs has fire resistance) and arrow rain can be good for mobbing at low lvls but they dmg is low too, also u need to stay near the mobs to reach 6 targets (bcz the horizontal range its awful too)

after see avenger skill from nls getting 20% extra damage (that means they have 200%+100%+140%=440% if they have SE) so those 440% dmg u need to add Shadow partner(440%+220%) and that gives 660% on NL also they have 50% crit chance vs 40% from archers, so even without the 20% added on avenger before the patch NLs AoE dmg was okay if we compare their dmg against BM dmg.
even before the change, arrow bomb damage wasnt strong (and its okie bcz its a 2nd job skill) and now even new bowmasters (lvl30~70) will suffer bcz now the dmg will be 230% instead 260%.

To summarize:

BM 3rd job skill dmg(with SE):
Arrow Rain = 400%
Inferno = 390% + ( fire element )

NLs avenger dmg after the patch = 660% (also 50%crit chance) + (dont forget they dont need SI to reach MAX ATT SPEED)
BMs arrow bomb after the patch = 370% (40% crit chance) + (and we need SI to do MAX DPS) *even with arclancer u need SI to reach MAX ATT SPEED*


Last opinion:

i know this change was to ''balance'' the issue of arrow bomb(2ndjobskill) outdps-ing 3rd job skills but as u can see BMs AoE dps its super low and its okay bcz we're ranged class and our strength should be single target dps BUT com'on 370%~400% dmg(with40%crit) and reliant on SI, pls don't be so unfair

Suggestion:

the simple suggestion to make new and old players to use inferno and arrow rain, just buff dmg of both skills from 3rd job instead nerf 2nd one, we're so far away from NL AoE dmg range (and NLs are awful mobbing hehe ;p)
as i said before i know gms will do more changes, but i think this change was unnecessary and hope they can REVERT this change until developers and GMs can bring a better solution to this issue.

TY for reading c;

Last Edit/Toughts about Arrow Bomb formula:

I think one of the reasons why Arrow Bomb has this special formula, its because Bowmaster class dont has any neutral/physical AoE damage (arrow rain doesnt count bcz we're ranged and we need to attack from afar) so probly ms developers added this formula to give them an extra physical skill on lategame, its feels weird to attack with an elemental attack like inferno or run to the mobs to use arrow rain, meanwhile marksman has piercing arrow and nl has avenger both physical and they dont need to check mob resistance or run to the mobs , so it would be cool if GMs can balance those 3 skills (arrow bomb, arrow rain and inferno) to make them useful, i love those 3 skills and i always switch between them so it would be nice if it is considered instead of nerf the cool Arrow Bomb c;

 

running Toad and Anego at the cost of lower damage? I think new Zerk sucks.

 

Re-read the notes

 

Can bucc snatch be added to regular transform too? Aside from dmg it's a strong mob control skill for them.

 

Make dragon blood 200 second uptime at lv 20 to match spear booster up time to sync buffs pls and ty

 

what is it? you sacrifice dmg to survive their 1hit kill. DK with 30k HP enter Zerk under 15k and both toad n anego hit over that.

 

I think he meant there is no "new" zerk, the old zerk was just buffed, so it's not like playstyle has changed but you instead get more dmg from 15k-16k compared to pre-patch 97.
Also from zanck's bossing guide, toad needs 15,7k HP to survive, and with DrK's achilles reducing all dmg by 20%, you can survive under 15k hp no problem.
Anego slap is still an issue though but very dedicated DrK has survived anego while zerking, just takes a lot of skills.

 

ok , this is old hat. everyone but DK benefits from auto pot, let's not pretend it isn't essential for bossing or any other content.
and I wouldn't call chugging unagis to keep from zipangu bosses 1 shotting you to be a "skill". I see it as a nuisance.
if we have to change Berserk then let's just add more thresholds below 50% that add more damage beyond 210%.
or better yet just have damage increase cumulatively when under max HP, then being in 1shot range would feel reasonable.
all of this still wouldn't change Anego grind being impossible for DKs who don't want to jump through unnecessary hoops.

 

I'm mostly very happy with this patch
But there are still a few things I'd like to mention, hoping they can appear in a second patch or future:

(1) Pally/Hero's weapon
Very happy about the shield buff teaser, but could you also further differentiate the identities of Axe and BW? After all, Sword is a shared weapon. Perhaps adding a new type of 2H Axe/BW (not currently in the game) to make class-exclusive weapons stronger would help: 2H Axe/BW > 2H Sword > 1H Axe/BW > 1H Sword. Or alternatively, highlight their distinctiveness through means other than raw damage.

(2) BM/MM
For MM, I remember Fish had some suggestions.
For BM — rather than nerfing Bomb Arrow, wouldn't it be better to buff the other two skills instead?

(3) Bucc
As a gameplay mechanic change — given the 60s interval, should Demo be buffed slightly to compensate for the lost damage and widen the output gap between transformed and non-transformed states?
(Personally I'd enjoy a more quirky approach — like using Energy Orb during non-transformed periods to supplement damage output, while ensuring Demo + Barrage > Energy Orb + Barrage > Dragon Strike + Barrage — but testing that would be a hassle.)
(But the number of hits on Energy Orb may need to be reduced to 2–3.)

(3) Hero
Personally I'd love to see all changes lean more toward class mechanic synergy and intra-class complex rotations (sair-like adjustments) as a cooperative playstyle — but since that's not the old-maple style, it's just my personal wish.
For example, Hero's Rage — to avoid the rage mule issue, change it from 12 WA (160s) to 20 WA (160s with 900s CD). This could also give TL some compensation after the Smoke nerf.
And for Coma/Panic buffs — I hope the previously suggested buff and CD additions can be adopted.

 

Anego isn't impossible. Lock tf in

 

1st.- All bosses were already zerkable b4, I have done ALL OF THEM on this server, including BGA, is just that some of them needed a very particular method that wasnt really easy for everyone to do, on top of not really bringing that much dmg to the table.
2nd.- shure I would have liked to see the long proposed scaling zerk, where you could get a tiny dmg buff for staying at, lets say under 30% of your HP, heck Im probably one of the 1st ppl on this server who proposed that in the 1st place. But youre wording the change as if they actually reduced the dmg along witht the threshold, wich is not the case, old zerk remain as it was, they just added an aditional threshold where in exchange for some dmg you can actually have a bigger margin, ngl, personally I woudlnt change my gamestyle, but its nice to not lose SO MUCH dmg for those ocasional overheals that happen once in a while, so if new zerk suck for you it means that old one was absolute trash for you since the change is objectively good

 

The real bucc nerf isn't just the damage, but the class now requires a different playstyle, making it annoying to play.
Bucc players will now need to figure out an optimal way to play with transformation against different amounts of mobs, which I believe will require more macros.
In general, I wouldn't mind damage tweaking if buccs are too strong, but what's the purpose of this change to make it more annoying to play? This isn't what bucc players signed up for.