Based on the reports I've read over the last few months I want to give some feedback to a specific matter, namely Petty reports: So since the server's population spiked a few months ago, a lot of players have been reporting others for the sole reason to get them banned and removed from the game. The reasons to these bans are to be called ridiculous by most of the community, and in fact even frightening to know some of these reports resulted into a ban. I'll happily give a few examples of reports I've seen in the last few weeks and months: You didn't want to party with me on your own map in GS2 even though I said I could provide HS and you showed no interest, defame and report. He left my party at a PQ and then later on when I was asked by someone to join his party, oh my did I show him, I told everyone I don't like him and rejected the party invite. Then later on he comes to me and says he doesn't like me either ;-; . report Mang, I spammed map owner and said nothing besides that command, but this guy won't leave my map! report ~mapowner, WANNA GAT BAN? report These reports luckily did not end up resulting into bans, but some of the considerably petty reports have resulted into bans. Where the reasons to why the person reporting a player were unbelievable and to be compared to: Is that guy wearing an item I sold to my friend who then sold it to him? Oh mah god I dislike that! Lemme defame and teach him a lesson! WHAT HE DEFAMED ME BACK 2 TIMES! Ban this guy, police please! Like, most of the community dislikes seeing these reports from what I have heard, and a part of the community is probably also a bit scared deep inside because some of these petty offenses have a chance to result into a ban, and that means everyone has to be careful to even say hi or hello to others because who knows.. maybe it's offensive and we will end up being banned for verbal abuse or whatnot. But in all seriousness: What I honestly do not understand is that reports where the player who is reporting someone either shows only a part of what happened, or just doesn't really communicate to the other player about it before making a report, are still taken serious. Even in real life, if something or someone bothers you, the first person you talk to is the person who bothers you and not the police. Most of the reports I've read are cases where if the OP had bothered to just say ingame what his frustrations were, what bothers him, or why he thinks something is an offense.. things could've been handled without the need of a GM. A lot of players just do not consider this at all, they either do not talk to the guy they're reporting at all, or just do so in a very lacking matter. What this results into is that the other player, who ends up being reported, is not even aware of this being a problem to the other player. But does end up being reported, of course, since then suddenly everyone can speak fluent english, make fully detailed reports, write the stories of their life.. just not ingame. Coz heck, why would we talk to others players, they ain't humans amirite. I feel like I'm getting a bit off topic here, but my point is short and simple: Players don't communicate with each other properly and grasp onto GM assistence in the form of report abuse threads way too easily. Players provide reports with insufficient evidence to what actually matters, such as: incomplete chat logs ~mapowner logs that show that a player has been on your map for a very short amount of time scam reports without players showing evidence of the scammer logging off right after telling you to go somewhere. And this is a problem, it's unhealthy to both the community as a whole, and the players individually. It's not a good life lesson for people to be stimulated to say stuff behind each other's backs (such as making a report out of the blue and getting their problem solved by police force, without letting the other person know you're troubled). I know I've probably done this before, and tbf I'm kind of ashamed of that even, but I've learned a lot when I became a more active part of the community and it kind of changed my perspective on some of these situations. With that said, I'm sure other people can also learn since these things are written down in the how to make a report guidelines. I do though, believe that if someone makes a report and this report turns out to be petty without a doubt and thus not bannable, that that player needs to be receiving some kind of light punishment that would make the person understand that making such reports is just not helping the community. Such penalty could be as light as blocking the player from making report abuse threads for a certain amount of time, as well as unable to reply to report abuse threads until lifted. Afterall, don't we have the following rules?: Always include at least one unedited and entire screenshot with your report. We are not able to act on reports without sufficient evidence, or where important information could be missing. Make sure that your screenshot shows enough context that we can get a clear idea of what happened. It's a good idea to maximize the chatbox if you need to include dialog as evidence. If you can resolve a situation yourself by talking to the other player(s), please try to do so.
How do you suggest changing individuals in a way that makes them want to communicate and solve their own problems rather than having an authority do it for them? Or, if you can't change them, how do you incentive it? Every GM will agree that people talking out their differences and coming to a working conclusion together, without GM interference, is the ideal; the problem is, how do you get people to do that?
I agree that while I was writing it, I saw the issue you've mentioned of the player not being able to defend themselves if they'd get reported before they'd be allowed to write in the report abuse section. I'm also not sure if that has been my best suggestion as of yet ^^ but I am trying to see if we as a community can figure out a way to make reporting a player less attractive than it is right now, especially when it comes to "petty" reports. I could possibly think of a few more possible solutions to some of these problems, but firstly I'm curious to see what other people have to say or suggest. And thus I appreciate the replies that have been given so far.
Personally I just think dumb people will be dumb people. This isn't a new issue at all, it's just magnified during population spikes for obvious reasons. There have and will always been ruled changes and policy tweaks to try to keep these posts to a minimum, but I don't think there's anything that can have a permanent lasting affect. That's why these are taken on a case by case basis though, most of the ridiculous reports result in very little, and rightfully so. Maybe I'm just pessimistic, but with the amount of players from different cultures who speak many different languages I think it's impossible to avoid minor squabbles. Are they annoying? Yes. Avoidable? Definitely. But even in society as a whole you get these issues. Just watch one of those court shows or Maury. Personally I just laugh at those reports and trust the GMs to make the best choice. I may disagree at times (like that last defame one) but those cases serve as a reminder to all of us to no be douche bags and to just leave trolls alone.
So here are a few suggestions just off the top of my head that I already admit are terrible, and probably time consuming for the GMs: 1) GMs do have access to chat logs, so for all relevant cases, the first thing posted by a GM is a full chat log to ensure that the full story is shown. This falls under the excessively time consuming category 2) We enable a "Community Justice" system in which each thread has a vote to Ban, Not Ban, or Give Warning. The GMs would be able to use this at their own discretion. Terrible idea for so many obvious reasons. 3) We Open a "Community Justice" subforum in which GMs can move less significant, more gray-area reports into and let the above voting system take action. I can actually think of an argument for this one. The purpose behind the GMs banning characters is to ensure that we are able to build a community to play the game with. Essentially, they are keeping the streets clean for us. This category would basically be trial by jury of peers. Since its our community, we are the ones that would decide whether or not some of the less significant reports really do merit a ban. Do we feel as though we are able to still play with the offender, or does he really need some time off to think about what he has done. Of course, as always, final decisions are left to the GMs in case someone gets trolled by the vote. 4) We add a "Warning" before first ban. This would basically be a benefit-of-the-doubt category in which we believe that the Offender was either misinformed (such as a lot of the ~mapowner reports) or the GMs did not feel as though it would quite merit a ban (such as the smaller defame cases). 5) We and an alternate "Warning" to the first ban. As opposed to letting them get away essentially free for their first minor offense, this will be counted equal to a "First Ban." Therefore, a repeat offense would be considered a Second Offense and they would receive a 7-day ban. This is essentially another benefit-of-the-doubt solution. We all know that people don't read the T&C. After a warning, it really will be their fault if they don't go through and take the time to understand how to use ~mapowner and whatnot. Ideally, this would be accompanied by a mandatory "Quiz" on the T&C. Essentially leave a note on the player's account that tells them to fill it out in X timeframe or else they will be banned until it is finished. Once again, a lot of work on the GMs part. 6) Require attempts at internal conflict resolutions for reports to be valid. The chat logs must show an attempt at reasoning with the other player. The most important part of this is that it would teach the players that begin yelling "I BAN YOU" that they do NOT in fact have the authority to ban someone. They must attempt to resolve the conflict on their own first, and if they are unable to do so, then GMs would get involved. Of course, the more severe or obvious offenses are still an auto-ban, but this would help with some of the "~mapowner" and less offensive name-calling cases. 7) Switch the Major and Minor offenses forums. Now this is a more interesting suggestion. We place "Major Offenses" as a subcategory of an "Offenses" forum rather than the other way around. What this will (hopefully) do is promote allowing the community judge a player, rather than GMs. As of now, the forum layout does suggest "Go to the GMs first, and the community later." By switching them, it could show "Handle this within yourselves first. If you really believe that its offensive enough to take the time to click into the subforum, then so-be-it. I think this may actually be the only suggestion that wouldn't require too much effort on the Admin's and GM's part but has potential to make a large difference. Terrible ideas aside, I do believe that something needs to be changed, though it will be hard. As stated above, the language barriers is one of the hardest factors. I think the best thing we can do is to really loosen up the rules a bit. Make it so that the GMs are less involved things so that we'll have to learn to take care of it ourselves. We need to somehow give the community a bit more power, so that the new players feel as though they can handle these situations on their own. The GMs should always be a last resort, but they are far from that at the moment.
On another note, PRAISE THIS GUY. This is what the community should strive for. Giving other members the benefit of the doubt, even if it might mean losing your map.
Everyone who plays on this server has agreed to its TOS and subsequently this servers rules. GM's do not unjustly ban people, everyone who has been banned has been banned for a legitimate reason. What is defined as petty is subjective to the player submitting the report and is up to their own discretion. Do not be upset when people want rule-breakers to be punished.
'Do not be upset when people want rule-breakers to be punished.' That's not the point... The point is that people on this server sometimes seem to find satisfaction in getting people banned, and thus report them for very small issues (sometimes even non-issues. I've seen a person get reported for saying the word 'sex'. That's just ridiculous). Reporting others just for the sake of having something to report is an increasingly common (and annoying) trend. And it needs to stop. I'm not even going to get started on people who provoke others in the hopes of pushing them to a point where they say something bannable.
The system works pretty well and watching your language around others you don't know is a basic thing everyone should think off, you don't know their age or anything. It's rarely any abuse reports so making drastic changed for a handfull of bad reports seems time wasting.
That's like saying people report crimes just for the sake of reporting a crime, if a injustice occurs that blatantly breaks the servers rules people should feel free to file a report without ridicule, no matter how 'petty' the event seems to others. If you don't break the rules then you are unaffected by this entire 'problem'.
+1 i've got more a problem with ppl reading reports. Not involved at all and judge about the thread opener. The one reporting got a problem with other players during his gameplay and wants the opinion from the Staff if its banworthy. If its only for petty reason we have smart enough staff to decide right and dont ban. After all i still think (and participate) to warn and explain newer players why they could get in trouble. Instead of trying to ban them .
I agree with this completely expect for what I've put in bold. New players should know what is and isn't against the rules after they have stated they have read the TOS (which is needed to create an account). I also don't understand why the ban-appeal and report abuse sections are not private in the first place, they are distinctively a correspondence between the staff and the poster. If making the section private isn't an option, at least do not allow non-staff to post in the threads. I understand people want to play moderator and lawyer, but 95% of the time the comments are nonconstructive and are innately emotional responses.
Preferably I wouldn't ever reply to a report abuse thread, but there's a lot wrong with the reports that are being written. And if those who make a thread want to be a smartass about the rules, they should also be smart about the rules when it comes to reporting people. What I mean with this is that a lot of people ignore all the guidelines that have been written for when to report, such as: If you can resolve a situation yourself by talking to the other player(s), please try to do so. Do people ever do that? Hell no.. They grasp onto the report section straight away, because banning a player is the easy way out.. That's disgusting.. The Report Abuse section is there for people who intend to break the rules by actually breaking them, not for petty accidents like killing 5 mobs on a map, or a lesser disagreement between 2 players. People are just sitting here going through all the rules just to find out if they can get the player they dislike banned. Then they provoke that player, make the chatbox not show what they said to provoke them, et voila.. screenshot the reaction and there's your report.
I hardly believe that understanding and wanting rule of law enforced is being a 'smartass'. It is also not your responsibility to point out the wrongs within reports, our staff team has proven everyday they are capable of thinking for themselves and making the right choices when it comes to player disputes. It's not your job to play lawyer, i'm sure any problem you see will also be picked up by our staff. No-one forces a man to rob a bank, his economic situation and friends may provoke him but at the end of the day it is his own free will and choice to break the law and rob that bank. Man knows the rules Man still chooses to break the rules Man is reported and banned You cannot force people to be discreet with reporting rule breaking, whats the point of having rules in the first place then if they are not enforced?
It's like you've ignored what I've said right now, and what my point in this entire thread was.. But I won't hold that against you because you seem like a player who seeks the rules that favor you, and not so much the full picture. When you make a report, there are 3 stickies: Before you reply to an abuse report Format for reporting abuse Guidelines for reporting abuse The problem with a lot of player is, they read the first one because they're obviously annoyed people reply to their report (understandable don't get me wrong), they read the second one (well not all of them, but most do) because they want to write the report.. But rarely ever do they read the Guidelines to reporting abuse, and this 1 is just as important as the others. It states how you should set up a report, when you should report and stuff like that. But people ignore that.. why? Because: If you can resolve a situation yourself by talking to the other player(s), please try to do so. Players don't want to even attempt to resolve the situation themselves as I said, and instead they grasp onto the final resort straight away. But if you want to express your love for the rules, and share your propeganda on how everyone should follow them, then include those rules as well.. Because right now it's a bit of an hypocrit move to only hold onto 1 set of rules, but not the other.
There is really no need to be so volatile and aggressive, i understand that you're mad but you need to remember this is just a childrens game you're playing, calm down. Lets use the example which i know served as a catalyst for this thread, my mass defame report. I was mass defamed, how am i possibly meant to resolve this situation myself? They cannot take that act back, it had already been committed. You cannot victim blame in these situations, i didn't ask to be mass defamed. I doesn't matter if i provoked him, i acted within the rules and he did not. 'If you can resolve a situation yourself by talking to the other players(s), please try to do so.' Once the possibility of talking about the situation arises the crime has most likely already been committed, it is then left up to the discretion of the individual to whether he wants to proceed with submitting a report or not.
The same way SeoJung's case was resolved, he was sad over losing 4 fame and even angry .. to a point where he wanted to give the guy 4 defames back even if it would get him banned. But I (and this could have been anyone) offered to give him the fame back if he would let go of what happened and just move on. You could have probably done the same if you just reported it as a minor offense, people would have maybe offered you your fames back if your intention wasn't to get the other player banned. It shows a lot different to the rest if your main focus is to get the other player banned, than it is if you are just concerned about your own character's state or your gameplay experience. Also, you can not tell me that you did not provoke the other guy by giving him a defame first for no real reason. Unless you were really attached to your disposed "garbage".
One defame serves its purpose. You can defame someone once without a reason, as the game allows you to do so once per day, per month on any individual - it does not matter about the reason. Works exactly the same with faming someone randomly, once per day, per month. Revenge is not a very smart way to reply to someone (as those 3 defames were), and it only causes more problems. The other guy in that situation should've defamed him once to get his point across.
Provocation is irrelevant, he decided to respond with an action that was against the rules. You cannot put the blame on someone when their legal action results in an illegal reaction. Also, to claim that my report (or any report) had an inherit intent to get the perpetrator banned is fallible and fantasized in the least. I saw a rule had been broken, and thus reported it. Perhaps you should argue for the introduction of more liberal rules, such as the expansion of user freedoms in relation to harassment and kill-stealing?
