Why do thieves think having low base dex is important and pants should be so expensive?

I've been trying to buy thief pants recently and I've noticed that people are ridiculously overpricing their pants. Part of this seems to come from the misconception that dex is better than luk on equips (it does not make a single difference to your damage if you get 10 dex from ap or from equips), and part of this seems to be because they see other people pricing pants highly.

Pants have 2 base stats less than tops. The scrolls also cost a few mil more. Taking this into account, pants should be about around 20% higher priced than a 2-higher-stat top. But for some reason, most people are selling them at double the price.

Not only does this not make sense from a stats perspective (the difference between 22 and 25 stat pants seems to be like 200 mil. Not sure why you would pay 200 mil for only 3 stats at pants) but it also doesn't make sense from a cost-payout perspective. A clean 15 stat pants costs 40-50 mil. 7 60% scrolls cost 80-90 mil. That's a cost of 120-140 mil to scroll one. 4/7 scrolls gets you a 23 stat pants, 5/7 scrolls gets you a 25 stat pants. Those are by far the two most common outcomes. BOTH of them give you a ton of profit at 200 mil for 23 stat pants and 300 mil for 25 stat pants. No other item I've come across in the game nets you a profit with only 4/7 60's passing, because if it did everyone would keep doing it until the price went down.

So are these people just severely overpricing their equips, or is there something I'm missing?

 

By doing so, you dont have to sacrifice level up ap into dex, making you stronger I would imagine. Plus I dont recall seeing any bottomwear for luk scrolls, but someone correct me if I'm wrong. If you cant get extra luk on a bottom anyway, might as well get high dex on it and be able to put more ap into luk for more dps

 

The more Dex you have from equips, the less base dex you can have. Maple Warrior only gives you a bonus on base stats, so if you have a total of 500 stats, say 500 luk and no equips vs 450 base Luk and 50 more from equips, for a total of 500 luk, with Maple Warrior active, you will have more Luk in the no equip senario. As far as why pants are expensive, its because bottom dex scroll are expensive, and you can't scroll bottoms for luk. Glove attack 60%s are 4m, the cost of 5 of those scrolls is 20m total + 1m for white work gloves. For 10 attack gloves you can get 80m+. So 400+% profit, why doesn't everyone do it? Another thing to think about is the pursuit of perfect or near perfect equips. Why is it with a lot of weapons, an additional 1 attack can make a huge difference in price? Theres a lot of money in the game, lots of ways to make a huge amount of money, and only a handful of equips that you can make or use to improve your character.

All of that in mind, the price of something is just what people are willing to pay. If someone buys it, its not overpriced.

 

Yes I'm not asking why people pay for them. I'm asking why it's so much more expensive than other similar items. For example, a 25 stat thief pants seems to be worth around the same as a 29 stat top (which is MUCH MUCH MUCH harder to scroll). And getting equips for dex lets you add ap to luk, yes. But getting 1 dex from equips and adding 1 point to luk is the exact same as getting 1 luk from equips and adding 1 point to dex. So there's no reason why dex on thieves should be treated differently from luk.

This is not exactly accurate. While this isn't exactly wrong, it doesn't result in you getting more total luk. If you have 50 higher base dex, that means you get 5 more dex instead of 5 more luk from maple warrior, and you can just add those 5 points back into luk because you need less dex.

This argument makes no sense. Landing 5/5 60%'s is MUCH MUCH MUCH harder than landing 4/7 60%'s. Scrolling gloves for attack results in losing an average of around 30% of the cost every time you do it. And even accounting for the extra price in bottom dex scrolls, the pants just cost WAY too much. As I said, they're the only item that gives a profit every time you do it.

Yes, that makes sense. The thing that doesn't make sense is the steep increase at such an early point. 22 and 23 stat pants can be 100%'d. You can get a clean 15 or 16 stat pants for like 40-70 mil and 100% it for another 20 mil. So clearly 25 stat isn't even CLOSE to perfect. Tops don't get such a big difference for 1 stat until like 30 stats, which requires like 6-7 60%'s working. The equivalent for that, taking pricing into account, would be 27 stats, not 23-24.

So basically they ARE overpriced, people are just buying them because of a LOT of misconceptions it seems like.

 

Why were 30% knuckle scrolls approaching 15m when there were like 5 active buccs in the server?

The economy does weird, sometimes unexplainable things.

 

Top luk 30%s, 2-3m Top luk 70%s 5mish Top Luk 60%s 12mish
Bottom Dex 30s 9-10m Bottom Dex 70% 8m Bottome Dex 60 12-14m

Therefor, tops are cheaper to scroll for luk than bottoms are for dex. You are comparing two different items. Its like comparing the cost of getting attack on a sword to getting attack on a shoe.

For the glove analogy I said earlier, as you said remember you are investing 40-50m in the pants clean. If you get 3/7, or 4/7, or 5/7 in my opinion, they are near worthless. So while you say 5/5 is harder than 5/7, with the gloves you have something like 3 or 4 more tries with the same amount of money. Initial clean equip cost is the base price. The scroll sucess rate and price of the scrolls themselves are the multiplier. The price of equips tends to be at an equilibrium with risk, and total cost. The exception is for very high stat equips.

 

What you are not thinking about is supply and demand. You can thanks a certain someone for the low prices of thief tops, he was scrolling thief tops like crazy a few months ago and selling them for cheap, since he wasn't scrolling pants there were many new thieves with tops and no pants. The results? prices of pants went up.

 

Yes, that would be fine if that were the case, but 3/7 4/7 and 5/7 are selling for a LOOOT more than they should be, therefore they are not near worthless.

Also 30's and 70's are straight up bad to use on pants unless you're going for really high stats (which we're not considering right now, with only 4/7 or 5/7 60's working), so those prices aren't really relevant.

EDIT: @Muren, that makes sense up to a certain point, but there should be a hard cap for prices based on the prices of the scrolls and the expected results of scrolling it yourself. Otherwise nobody would ever buy scrolled pants, and they would always scroll their own.

I'm completely convinced that pants prices are high because of a lack of information or misinformation

 

Well many people throw logic out the window when they see an item they want, many people rather pay extra for an item than wait for another one to be for sale (especially if they have been looking for one for a while). It just take one person to say 'w/e I will pay 500m for this' and the word to spread about the trade (which is really easy to happen since most auctions are public here in the forums or you can see the sold item in a shop in game), and the rest of the sellers will think 'if this dude sold it for 500m why would I sell for lower?'.

The market is really easy to manipulate on a 'small' server, both buyers and sellers take advantage of this sometimes.

Also, there are many people who hate scrolling and rather buy the items, many of these people don't really know how hard or how easy can it be to scroll an item, sure you can do the math but IMO many times the numbers don't leave the right idea (for better or for worse).

 

Hey im selling cheap thief tops in my opinion

 

Are you the one who said my 19/6 red pants is worth 120m and my 20/8 dark pants is worth 300m

 

cuz people thought you couldn't owl for them and there was some dude calling himself 'god of bucc' buying them all and scrolling king cents. good times merching those scrolls

on topic, pretty much what muren said. prices aren't always set by the math. pgc and fs prices are off for lower att ones but as att becomes godly they're about equal. math says fs should be worth a lot more since 2 is the max clean while pgc can be up to 9 att clean. but for godly scrolled att they're pretty much equal. that's just how it is and it's probably due to precedents set and people wanting to abide by those. sadly all it takes is a few people on a hurry to sell ht books and precedents can be screwed forever (as sellers)

 

Who was that? Haha

I'm glad I finished my knuckle when they were half that.

 

His ign is excruciate, had to look through rankings to remember haha

 

As someone who frequently scrolls and sells both thief tops AND bottoms, I've seen a massive drop from what prices used to be back when i first started playing. As someone who makes a living out of that, have i ever complained? o-o. You have to take into account that it might not be that pants prices are expensive, its just that you're blessed with cheap top prices. I used to pay way way more for those.

Think of it, topwear luk scrolls are only required by thiefs, whereas bottomwear dex scrolls are shared by a few other classes. that makes it much more desirable to begin with.

Also, isn't this marginal increase in price seen in all other equipment? You can take most equipment and the closer it is to the maximum stat, the prices increase dramatically. How would you explain that?

Just be happy thief top prices are as cheap as it is, because i've spent a heckload booming tops and bottoms enough to justify the prices, thats in my opinion by the way. You can prove me wrong by trying it yourself. Cheers.

-sheepy-