tl;dr: Use the highest attack spear you can find, and when you're decently geared + appling, use Sky Skis. Outdated information, don't refer to this: Spoiler First draft, this will just include some maths and tl;dr. I'll give longer explanations later. This is also not including the "godly" items we have here on Royals at the moment, but the math all still applies. Weapons in question: Fishing Pole - Fast(5) speed, (3) with booster. I will henceforth refer to this as "Pole". Sky Skis - Normal(6) speed, (4) with booster. I will henceforth refer to this as "Skis". Dragon Faltizan - Slow(7) speed, (5) with booster. I will henceforth refer to this as "Dragon". Max clean attack Pole: 72 Skis: 99 Dragon: 112 Max perfected attack (godly) Pole: 112 Skis: 139 Dragon: 152 Multiplier given to COMPARED spear Pole: 28 (Or any speed 5 spear) Skis: 31 (Or any speed 6 spear) Dragon: 33 (Or any speed 7 spear) Formula [Multiplier of Spear A] ([Weapon ATT of Spear B] + x) = [Multiplier of Spear B] ([Weapon ATT of Spear A] + x), where x = the additional weapon attack from potions or equipment required for the DPS of Spear A and Spear B to equalize. Any number greater than x results in Spear B yielding higher DPS; any number lower than x results in Spear A yielding higher DPS. In my opinion, a reasonable amount of weapon attack to get from gear is around 25~35 end game, depending on if we get MoNs or not. From potions, you can get +100 attack from Onyx Apples, and perhaps eventually +120 attack from Demon Elixirs (they also come from CWKPQ along with the MoN). Ergo, a reasonable total increase of weapon attack end game is somewhere between 125~155. Spoiler: Pole vs Dragon Clean 33 (72 + x) = 28 (112 + x) (33 * 72) + 33x = (28 * 112) + 28x 5x = (28 * 112) - (33 * 72) x = [(28 * 112) - (33 * 72)] / 5 x = 152 Perfect 33 (112 + x) = 28 (152 + x) (33 * 112) + 33x = (28 * 152) + 28x 5x = (28 * 152) - (33 * 112) x = [(28 * 152) - (33 * 112)] / 5 x = 112 Spoiler: Pole vs Skis Clean 31 (72 + x) = 28 (99 + x) (31 * 72) + 31x = (28 * 99) + 28x 3x = (28 * 99) - (31 * 72) x = [(28 * 99) - (31 * 72)] / 3 x = 180 Perfect 31 (112 + x) = 28 (139 + x) (31 * 112) + 31x = (28 * 139) + 28x 3x = (28 * 139) - (31 * 112) x = [(28 * 139) - (31 * 112)] / 3 x = 140 Spoiler: Skis vs Dragon Clean 33 (99 + x) = 31 (112 + x) (33 * 99) + 33x = (31 * 112) + 31x 2x = (31 * 112) - (33 * 99) x = [(31 * 112) - (33 * 99)] / 2 x = 102.5 Perfect 33 (134 + x) = 31 (147 + x) (33 * 134) + 33x = (31 * 147) + 31x 2x = (31 * 147) - (33 * 134) x = [(31 * 147) - (33 * 134)] / 2 x = 62.5 tl;dr Basically, Sky Skis will beat Dragon fairly quickly (NOTE: this is not the case with Reverse or Timeless!). The Pole will need to be perfected and you will need to use an apple for it to beat the Dragon, but will not yet beat the Sky Skis. If you have a perfect Pole, godly gear and are appling (gaining a total of 140 or more weapon attack), then the Pole becomes the strongest. If you have Speed Infusion, Sky Skis win hands down. Too short; tell me more! This post has all the background math. For right now: Use the highest attack spear you can find. If you are appling, use Sky Skis. When you become godly: Use the highest attack spear you can find. If you are appling, use Fishing Pole. UPDATE: I've created a google sheets chart for comparisons. Take a look! Spoiler
Interesting find that the Fishing Pole can do some damage and is viable. Hidden Street images are not supported here so look up the item in question in the MapleRoyals Library and copy and paste the image instead.
Thanks And yep. For v83 servers it's actually barely even a contest since Chaos scrolls drop and there are Vicious' Hammers - the Pole wins hands down on those servers at end game. But without plenty of chaos and extra 2 slots on everything, the Fishing Pole requires you to be super godly before it becomes the best. And notably.. Sky Skis will never be better than the Dragon Faltizan if you're not using a high weapon attack pot/hella geared. I think people have been jumping to Sky Skis too early, and it's inefficient for their dps.
I've never played a v83 server yet so this is news to me. As weapon attack goes higher, the Fishing Pole gets better, right? Showa Gachapon
Yeah. I don't show all the hidden math here, but essentially, as far as weapons go, the only difference that matters is total weapon attack. All the other stats cancel out. The higher your total weapon attack, the better a higher attack speed will benefit you.
Can you please run the numbers including the fact that our Godly item drop goes +5 higher than your stated numbers? This guide looks incredibly similar to one I've seen on another forum for a different server. Also, I'm interested in the full math for behind the scenes, or at the very least a bit more thorough of an explanation since I don't exactly know what your comparison multipliers stand for.
Already added the +5 for Godly on the perfect, just not on the clean (figured you can just do the rest of the specific situations yourself ). also that guide from other server probably is mine And yeah, I'll give more details on the behind the scenes soon (TM).
All the following mathematics were compiled by a user on another forum by the name of "Retribution" - all credits to this explanation go to him. Further, of course, ayumilove is referenced for all the maple source stuff. I am slightly modifying them to be relevant for this server. Let: ATT = (WATT + x), where WATT is weapon attack and x is attack from any other source STR = Total STR from all sources DEX = Total DEX from all sources S = Weapon attack speed Assumptions: Sky Ski clean attack = 99 Sky Ski perfect attack = 139 Dragon Faltizan clean attack = 112 Dragon Faltizan perfect attack = 152 STR = 1,000 DEX = 200 Booster is used Crusher is maxed Constants: Booster speed boost = -2 Sky Ski attack speed = 6 (4 with booster) Alchupiz attack speed = 7 (5 with booster) Crusher Normal (6) delay = 1,050 ms No. Crusher attacks = 3 Crusher damage per hit = 1.7 When calculating delays, they are always rounded to the nearest 30 ms. Spoiler: Range: Formula ATT * [ (5 * STR + DEX) / 100 ] Sky Skis (99 + x) * 5200/100 52 * (99 + x) Dragon Faltizan (112 + x) * 5200/100 52* (112 + x) Spoiler: Crusher Delay: Formula 1050 * [ (S + 10) / 16 ] Sky Skis 1050 * [ (4 + 10) / 16 ] 1050 * (14 / 16) 918.75 930 Dragon Faltizan 1050 * [ (5 + 10) / 16 ] 1050 * (15/16) 984.375 990 Spoiler: Crusher Attacks per Second (APS): Formula (1000 / Delay) * No. of Attacks Sky Skis (1000 / 930) * 3 100 / 31 Dragon Faltizan (1000 / 990) * 3 100 / 33 Spoiler: Crusher Damage: Formula APS * 1.7 Sky Skis (100 / 31) * 1.7 170 / 31 Dragon (100 / 33) * 1.7 170 / 33 Spoiler: DPS: Formula Range * Crusher Damage Sky Skis 52 * (99 + x) * (170 / 31) (8840 / 31) * (99 + x) Dragon Faltizan 52 * (112 + x) * (170 / 33) (8840 / 33) * (112 + x) These formulas for DPS are then set equal to each other to find x, which is how much additional attack is needed for Sky Skis to out damage a Dragon Faltizan. You might have noticed that both sides contain the 8840, which comes from your STR and DEX. These cancel out. This is assuming your STR/DEX is the same in both situations, which it probably will be, or be extremely close. If it is different, you can use the full formulas above to find out what difference it makes. Additional attack needed for clean Sky Skis to out damage a clean Dragon Faltizan: Spoiler (8840 / 31) * (99 + x) = (8840 / 33) * (112 + x) 33 (99 + x) = 31 (112 + x) (33 * 99) + 33x = (31 * 112) + 31x 2x = (31 * 112) - (33 * 99) x = [(31 * 112) - (33 * 99)] / 2 x = 102.5 Spoiler: Credits & Notes: Southperry for Crusher Delay. Ayumilove for range formula and other formulas. For this weapon comparison, STR and DEX don't make any difference to the calculations. This is because they do not have a multiplicative relationship in the range formula and they cancel each other out. Setting them to 1 would give the same result. All I've done is gone and made the formula as simple as it can be so you can quickly and easily calculate which spear is better. The multipliers (31, 33, 28) come from the attack speed of the spear. I just dumbed it down to make it easy to figure out, but there's all the stuff going on in the background. Enjoy.
oooo thats cool! I was wondering about that when i noticed fishing poles have fast attack speed on them a few days ago too. but do your eally think people are rushing to sky skis too quickly? the money to perfect both would be insanely high, at least for some people that havent saved up billions of mesos or happen to have lots of white scrolls just laying around. you could probably perfect your skis and then use that mesos you have/will have from not perfecting the dragon, to use making/bidding or buying good fs/pgc/scg and then be at the point where sky skis win. Also it took someone I know around 300 crafts to get a 109 att shiner bow (1 from perfect i think?) so im guessing its just as hard to make the spear. Seems more costly and time efficient to just go skis first and then work on the fishing pole in the new source. oh and i just heard from a friend in guild say theres no hammers in the new source as well and i know you mentioned that. i have no idea where he saw that and im too lazy to ask but we'll find out c': gonna stick to perfecting the skis once i pay them off tho lol. too poor to perfect 3 different weapons for a class plus make a good psb just to grind with...
I don't believe it's worth it to invest a crazy amount in an amazing Dragon Faltizan, but as a starting spear, I think it works well. It's a lot easier to get a 120+ attack Faltizan (or other slow spear) than Sky Ski. Having that extra 10~20 attack actually does make it better if you're not appling/have crazy weapon attack gear to compliment it. The speed advantage ramps up with your total weapon attack. The higher it gets, the more speed matters. So, for a beginning player, it's better they just get that extra 10~20 attack from a higher spear. That said, there is something to be said for availability of the Sky Ski vs Dragon Faltizans that are good. Regardless, you can always just use the formulas I've provided and make a judgment for yourself. I think newer players would do better investing in a decent Faltizan which they'll be using to grind/train, and then invest in a Sky Ski when you plan to apple at bosses.
yeah if youre crafting it yourself definitely. like someone in acme just got a 117 in 6 trys i think so if you got that lucky its def worth it haha. you could also just farm ToT for 109 or 110 att pinakas and get a 120+ i guess. but i do agree faltizan over skis if youre a new player! only reason i got good enough skis to perfect is because of a friend so i am being a little biased here haha whoops. but good job on this it was a good read. i mained dk in gms and i never new that fishing poles could be so good ^ ^
@Suricates Can you make a same guide for Hero's? Including 1h vs 2h red kata / carabella and ST vs Claymore
Maybe at some point, but I am not as knowledgeable about Heroes. The information is all out there, so you can probably figure it out, but I've not seen anyone compile the information. I am doing it for Night Lords next. I make no promises, but I may look into doing it for Heroes too.
@Suricates, the way you're doing the math, the attack speed variable for the Fishing Pole is 29, not 28. This makes the Fishing Pole quite a bit worse than what you calculated. With 29 instead of 28, the difference is so significant that I would never recommend using a Fishing Pole at end game, regardless of gear or attack pots. clean Fishing Pole vs clean Sky Skis: x = 319.5 clean Fishing Pole vs clean Dragon Faltizan: x = 218 With the best gear in the server and an onyx apple, the Fishing Pole would be marginally better than the Dragon Faltizan. But it's actually impossible to surpass the Sky Skis; +320 watk is just not possible in this version. Also, with Speed Infusion: clean Sky Skis vs clean Dragon Faltizan: x = 76.5 So Sky Skis don't always beat Dragon Faltizan with Speed Infusion, but it's not very tough for Sky Skis to come out on top.
Can you show your math for how you get 29? Without explaining more, you should understand based on previous posts: 1050 * [ (S + 10) / 16 ], S = 3 for Fishing Pole 1050 * (13/16) 853.125 853.125 / 30 28.4375 28 It rounds to 28, not 29. Am I missing something?
What's the delay of Crusher with a Faster(3) weapon? Ayumilove's reference says it's 870. Where does the 1050 * [ (S + 10) / 16 ] formula come from?
Unfortunately, the reference I got this from is currently down. However, I believe it is directly from the source code. When it comes back up, I'll confirm. Edit: Found a source, but it's for newer versions: http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=71097 This source confirms the formula, however, it says it's actually a ceiling instead of rounding, which does change it to 29. Therefore, the Fishing Pole, indeed, is far less powerful than the earlier math would have you believe.
