I started almost a month ago and started with a Hero, and I was really bummed out that this super cool looking sword was deemed to be "OP" and therefore removed. But after looking at all the reasoning behind why people think/thought it was OP, It seems to me that the reasons are either no longer relevant or flawed. So I wanted to discuss further into this with the hopes of this item being reintroduced as a LOW Gachapon at unpopular towns as Perion, Elinia, or Sleepywood. I Will be referring to Black Crystal Sword as BCS, And I Apologize for the Long Post First off here is the original debate posts: http://royals.ms/forum/threads/black-crystal-sword.10069/#post-53206 http://royals.ms/forum/threads/sleepywood-gachapon.10065/ So as far as I can see, here are the reasons why it was thought to be OP: - Gives 50 Acc - Apparently would make Dark Knights look bad compared to Heroes - Would break the Sparta Market - People thought that this sword was Fast(4) But Actually it is exactly the same attack Speed as a Sparta, Fast (5) My counter reasons: 1. Gives 50 Acc: Someone mentioned that this was OP because it was allow you to convert your Dex gear into Str gear, however my question is: How would you do that? Let's keep in mind here again that this Sword is a LVL 100 requirement item so lets look at end game items: - Capes, Gloves, Shoes are all WPN ATK with NO Primary STATS (PGC, SCG, FS) - By lvl 100 you'll have ditched your bathrobe for a Str Top and a Dex Bottom Whether Or Not this item exists or not. Bott Str Scrolls DO NOT EXIST - There are no scrolls for pendants - You Cannot Scroll a Earring, Helmet, Face Accessory, and Eye Accessory For STR instead of DEX Because Scrolls for STR DO NOT EXIST ON THESE EQUIPMENT TYPES -Also by the time End game comes around you to should have enough ACC Anyways With or Without this Sword. 2. Apparently would make Dark Knights look bad compared to Heroes -The Main reason Dark Knights didn't look as good as Heroes when this BCS was being discussed over a year was because Berserk 30 was not available. Therefore this Huge reason is No longer valid. - Someone mentioned that it would be unfair because now Heroes would have 3 good weapons: Red Katana, Sparta, and now this(BCB), While Dark Knights Only had Sky Ski's. I believe this to be very flawed and here's why: - The Red Katana is a lvl 70 weapon and therefore not an End Game weapon - Why would you Consider Sparta which is not any faster or has any particular stats to be a good weapon and Not Consider a Pinaka with the Sky Ski's? - Dark Knights have an End game Weapon that is one Speed Faster than normal While 1H Heroes stay at the same Weapon Speed even with BCS because it's not any faster than a Sparta. This Actually counters the original argument since it can be seen that it's actually Unfair for 1h Heroes since we don't have a faster weapon attack Alternative while Dark Knights do. - And Actually right now Dark Knights MAKE Heroes Look Bad - DK's get their end game attack at 3rd job while we Heroes are stuck with slash blast and Coma Every 5 damn attacks until 4th job - DK's get Hyper Body which is a Super Party Skill that every bossing party wants and gives you a ton of hp at all times. - DK's get Dragon Roar which puts Heroes to shame - DK's have further range - DK's get free or huge discounts on Boss items such as Zhelm All this and Hilariously enough it's Debatable whether Dark Knights do more DPS than Heroes. The only Advantage I see as a Hero is Power Guard which of course looks terrible in comparison to Hyper Body. 3. Would Break the Sparta Market - With this item being a Low Gach item at an Unpopular Spot, As well as my reasons as to why 50 ACC isn't that big of a deal, I would imagine not too many people will be looking to spend an Extra couple Billions just to get the same Attk BCS instead of a Sparta. And Again BCS Does NOT have a faster Attack Speed than Sparta, They are BOTH Fast (5). 4. BCS Does NOT have a faster Attack Speed than Sparta, They are BOTH Fast (5). LASTLY: Even before all these things are considered, in the original debate post 63% of people voted to have this readded: http://royals.ms/forum/threads/black-crystal-sword.10069/#post-53206 If there are other reasons as to why this sword should not added or if you believe my reasonings here are flawed please feel free to post your reasoning. Thank you
tl;dr: Given the facts stated in this post (and a little personal bias toward swordsmen), I stand in favor of adding such an item to the game. Most relevant facts gathered from post: One of the larger issues that players and moderators had about including such an item was the stat bonus for accuracy. My Hero with 60 base dex at level 160 doesn't miss much with just a regular Sparta. As stated by nineskies, warriors don't exactly have a plethora of +STR scrolls available to them; the +DEX scrolls along with an HTP, ZH, player buffs, etc, provides basically all the accuracy I would need. Perhaps a closer look might be warranted at the issue of exactly how heavily an extra +50 accuracy would impact the overall balance of the game. Perhaps I would not go so far as to say that the Dark Knight casts a looming shadow over its relative, the Hero; however, there are key elements in the current version that may possibly sway the gaming experience in favor of Dark Knights. DrKs are now able to obtain Berserk 30, which inarguably provides a massive boost to their attack. That, coupled with their early access to map-efficient mobbing skills (Dragon Roar, Crusher, etc) seems to supply a more enjoyable gameplay than the current job path of Heroes. I think the biggest argument to be made for the inclusion of the Black Crystal Sword would be that it is neither a massive detriment to DrKs, nor is it a game-breaking boon for Heroes. Yes, it is a powerful weapon, but that should not warrant absolute exclusion. Of course, it should not rain down from the heavens, but I'd advocate for a fair chance, perhaps at a rate similar to that of a White Scroll. Of course, such speculation is irrelevant when the BCS is not yet within our grasps. Hopefully this changes though. Happy Mapling!
I don't mind it being a thing. The accuracy bonus is negligible at best during end game and I'd rather perfect a Dragon Carabella than a Black Crystal Sword.
I personally don't see why it was removed in the first place. Carabella>Black Crystal Sword. I'm in favour of it being added back
after reading this post that Accuracy is not important. well, remove it from the sword and introduce it again to the game. that will give: Black Crystal Blade Weapon Att.: 99 Att. Speed: Fast Effects: - or make it similar to Sky Ski Effects: Accuracy +10 (8-12) my own opinion is +50 is too much. i already think that swords, both 1h and 2h are much better then axes and blunt weapons. if this thread was about giving an ax or blunt +50 accuracy i would vote YES immediately.
These two statements contradict each other. If you are aware that accuracy is of minute relevance, why would it affect your assessment of whether the sword should be included in the game?
hate, because after "reading" all other posts that accuracy is "NOT" that important, while the reason of banning this sword "WAS" because of it. then i dont see the problem. remove accuracy and everyone are happy. its not that "I" think that accuracy is not important. contrary, i think its way too much and agree why they banned it in the first place.
@baka, could you please provide a single piece of empirical data which supports your claim that any amount of extra accuracy affects a Hero's late-game gameplay whatsoever? Thanks.
if you play a warrior then im sure you know exactly the reason. i have play both hero and dk and i know that i could take advantage of a +50 accuracy. im sure that the persons that banned in the first place also knew this. i get it, its a nice weapon and would be great to have. (i would love it) but its way too OP. if you make similar upgrades to axes, blunt weapon, poles then maybe i could accept this weapon and its accuracy. to be successful you need minimum 150 accuracy. with this weapon, you could from lvl100 go with 100 accuracy equips only. to have 150 accuracy you need shoes, cape, eye, face, overall, helmet, rings, pendants, earrings. to have 100, you could without issues use att capes, att shoes, pure str overalls or you could go INT gears, if you want to boost a bit MP for later washing (without spending mesos on other stuff). so yes. its way too good. remember that we use maple weapons for a reason. this sword would be "the next" after it for 1h-sword users while other weapon users would need to spend money on accuracy equipsments. what we need when we lvl200 is completely different.
So not really that hard then. Also to counter your point on adding in a weapon equivalent version of the Black Crystal Blade in Axe form, that's most likely not going to happen. If it doesn't already exist, is not going to be added.
Plenty, yeah, of course we can make it to 150. but the discussion here is that the sword weapon gives you 50 accuracy. those 50 accuracy will mean you dont need to get 50 accuracy from some of the "equips" i wrote. that means equips that focus on att, str or even int.
Most equips can't be scrolled for Str or Atk so that leaves a lot of room to scroll for accuracy. I'm Dexless on my Hero and Dark Knight and I have more than enough Accuracy for anything.
@baka. Even if its not for Acc, people will still/should scroll for Dex. Dex doesn't just give you Acc, it gives you a higher minimum Attk range then Str does and also give you a bit of higher Maximum Attk range. If people decided not to scroll their items for Dex because of this Sword then they would be doing significantly less DPS. Also to your points about the equips, Nobody should be using Str Overalls at lvl 100 as a warrior when you can get pretty much the equivalent Str with a lvl 100 top and bottom and at the same time also get like 30 Dex. As for Int gear, any1 can do that right before they lvl up. There is no benefit of having INT gear instead of Dex until your at 99.98% and as a matter of fact would be a detriment for the reasons I just explained. Lastly, almost nobody who is able to afford Attk Shoes and Cape would be using Dex Shoes and Capes since even without those 150 Acc is still pretty easily achievable
@baka, you still have not provided any explanation for your claim that the sword should not be included as it currently stands. As already clarified, the additional accuracy is negligent toward the overall end-game of a Hero. You keep bemoaning the argument that it's "way too OP." What we are discussing here is not how fancy a +50 accuracy looks, but rather the subject of adding the sword into the game. The reason for its prior exclusion was due to claims that the sword created an imbalance between the various warrior classes. As aforementioned, those claims have been adequately addressed and resolved. Once again (hopefully for the final time), the amount of accuracy that the sword provides is irrelevant to the topic at hand, and it does not create a disparity between the the warrior classes. Therefore, there is no apparent reason for the sword's continued exclusion from the game. P.S. In case you were confused as to what "empirical data" meant (since you have not provided any), here is an example: Also, that pretty much destroyed everything you had to say up until now.
this is ridiculous, im playing a DK and i know for sure that i have been having difficulty to get to the desired accuracy. the last piece was a face-equips to grant me +13 accuracy, without i was doing lots of miss. sometimes i needed to put my +46 pinaka or the +30 maple spear instead of using my pole when i trained because i missed so much. maybe you think its "easy" and "cheap" to make your character +160 accuracy. but for me it was not easy. i spent mesos and time to achieve it. with a +50 accuracy weapon i would have it easier. i would use a speed/jump shoe instead of that accuracy/dex based shoe i used. (yes, i enjoy moving faster and its a part of the maple experience) or if i got the mesos i would love to use an att.shoes instead, giving me more damage. yes, i would love not to spend money on the face-equip and instead "save it" for something more useful. yes, i would love to use my str-overall instead of my dex-overall. and NO ,i dont have the mesos to buy me a top/bottom that is well scrolled. i scrolled the str-overall/dex-overall myself. the str-overall gives me "only" 10dex/11acc and its NOT ENOUGH for some monsters. so i dont get it. you claim its not relevant, ITS SO EASY. but for me its not. i struggle to have those required accuracy. so YES, for me, +50 accuracy is A LOT and would help me immensely. im sure the reason you keep trying to shut my mouth is because you want it back. and you try to fool me with all kind of BS how unimportant accuracy is. but in the end of the day its not. you need it to hit a monster to be able to get experience and level up.
Can this feedback please turn its attention back to the original suggestion itself, rather than Baka's personal accuracy issues and whether scrolling for accuracy is cheap or not. If this is not possible, I'll end up having to clean the thread out or lock it.
I see no problem with this being added. If it was a lower level piece of equipment, I would see why you would keep it out to prevent a level 50 from training somewhere and getting exp rates faarrrrr beyond what should be possible, but accuracy really isn't an issue as far as I know - maybe it will be later if more areas/mobs are added, but for now it should be fine. It wasn't OP in the original maplestory as far as I am concerned, it was more of a rare/trophy weapon.
