Hiyo. So... I keep telling people they need to wash to 9k HP in order to Horntail. This is what I was told when Mass Dispel was fixed, and this is what I've been spouting ever since. But now people are starting to tell me that it's not necessary to wash to 9k; that washing to 5.6k is fine. I'd like some people's opinions on this. I've never bossed. Ever. So I don't know how any of it works. I don't know how tragic it is if you get Hyper Body dispelled, and get knocked down to 5.6k HP. Can someone please explain this process to me? I'd like to know what happens when Mass Dispel is shot out, and I'd like to know what the DrK has to do when it happens. Will the 5.6k HP person die if the DrK sucks? Will they die 50% of the time no matter what? I'd just like a complete rundown of the entire process, without having to level my Sin to 155 and try it out for myself. <3
@Zynzer is probably the best person to explain it as I have seen so far. I'm going to go with yes because I know people who don't even have 7.8k (which is actually what you need to not get 1 shot) do just fine with hb. I'm fairly certain @Lyrium has around 6.8k (please correct me if I'm wrong)
It's probably easiest to break it down into three scenarios -- note that this is with the way HT works currently, as it's still pretty buggy and not working 100% how it should: (Assuming no HB, and not running into body parts) Scenario 1: NL has around 5.7k-ish HP -- The NL will not be able to start at Legs/Tail as it does around 7.2-7.5kish or so. Wings on the left side is also not an option as the magic damage does around 8k+ish and the wing itself around the same, maybe a bit less. The only option for the NL is to wait till Legs/Tail/Wings are dead before being free to go down below. That means they're limited to staying at Head A/C, which does the 5.4-5.5k damage or so. Once mass seduce occurs they most likely will not be able to tank all the rock hits on the side once sed. Scenario 2: NL has around 7.5k+ HP -- The NL can start at Legs/Tail as they can survive the leg stomp attack and the tail slam attack. The main concern here is the wings as they can still one-shot a NL. It's best for the NL to go into dark sight if they need to climb up to Head A/C while the wings are still alive (and even then it's still scary). A NL with this HP can tank rocks for mass seduce more comfortably than the 5.6k HP NL, but it's still cutting it very very close. It's safest for the NL to stay in the middle attacking arms with haste off so when mass seduce occurs, they'll walk slower to the rocks and not have to tank as many hits. (This also applies to the above scenario) Scenario 3: NL has 9.1k-ish HP -- This is the most ideal and safest option to wash to as they'll be able to tank every ranged/magic hit and survive rock damage during mass seduce. This doesn't mean that you should go running into body parts, but everything that will hit a NL from a ranged position you'll be able to tank comfortably. So technically, yes a NL can survive at 5.6k HP, but the run will go much slower and is more dangerous as there will be less attackers down at Legs and Tail. As Jeen said, I have 6.8k HP, so I don't meet the 7.5k threshold. I've had runs where a DrK has d/c'd or died and still managed to complete the entire run, but only in the ways that I mentioned in the 5.6k HP section. Keep in mind that in 6-7 man runs, the whole party is together almost 100% of the time, so a good DrK will be refreshing HB even before it runs out. In terms of being dispelled by Head B -- usually you're next to the DrK so they'll refresh immediately as they'll get dispelled too. For Left Arm dispel, in my experience we leave right and left arm for last, so being dispelled during left arm isn't a major issue, although having it up before mass seduce occurs is a must. (Also if you need a reference of what a HT run currently looks like: You can see that the party stays with each other most of the run.
This applies to all ranged classes! Will be much more annoying for non-NLs because of less avoidability, lack of Shadow Shifter, and lack of Dark Sight, so if you only have 5.6k HP as a non-NL, falling down from the platform at Head A/C can usually mean death.
As you can see, it is NOT required to Horntail. I think people are getting confused with required and recommended. Question I would like to ask you folks is how do you think people from GMS, where washing was rare, did Horntail? Probably like how Carlos mentioned above. Now of course, it's recommended to wash so that it goes faster, less chance of dying, etc, but key point is that it is not necessary to wash for you to join HT ^^
16x Corsair here! I've done a few HT runs with HB and a few without it. I currently have around 9162 HP if I'm not mistaken, and I was able to get through HT even when there was no HBer in my party. It's definitely annoying at the beginning for sairs with legs and tail but as @Lyrium said, around 9.1k HP is perfectly survivable.
You might be mistaken as to the topic of discussion, here. 9.1k HP is obviously an okay amount of HP to have. You don't even need HB at that point. We're discussing whether or not it's sane to do HT with 5.6k HP.
Thank you so much! This is incredibly helpful! If a new player were to come and ask you how much they should wash to, what would you tell them? Would you tell them that 5.6k HP will be fine? Or would you tell them that they should really go for more. My concern isn't whether or not it's POSSIBLE to Horntail with 5.6k HP. My concern is whether or not advising new players to go for 5.6k HP, will just create a bunch of 5.6k HP lvl 155s who regret everything, and hate my guts for suggesting to them that that's a sane way to do things.
Since int equips may be expensive for a new player and adding base int would be just as expensive, I'd probably advise the 7.5k HP option if their funding is average. Additionally, for archers, this would be more expensive since they don't gain as much HP as NLs or Sairs when washing. It really all depends on when they want to reach their HP goal. With maybe 20-30 washes and no base int/hardly any equips, I hit 5600 at 155. If I consistently wore good int equips, 7.5k hp is definitely possible in maybe the 17x or 18x levels. Overall though, a new player would still find the 7.5k hp route tough, so just being at around 6.5k+ would suffice as long as a DrK is available (which in most cases, they are, since fully washed ranged classes are usually made by those making a 2nd character with previous funding).
I definitely agree with Carlos that washing a little is recommended. 5.6k is the very lowest limit and I personally don't like playing so close to the line (especially with autopot fail and lag that make it hard to stay alive). I also would recommend washing higher for BMs or sairs due to the fact that they dont have dark sight or high avoidability like NLs In the end though, everyone should have a little MP to play around with, simply from having the level up/job adv mp and from zhelm, etc. Even adding base int of like, 20 or so with minimal equips should help a lot without hindering training abilities too much ^^ If people were new and dead set on a *ranged* attacker, this is what I would probably tell them ^^
