Give BW&Axes a Boost

Discussion in 'Closed' started by baka, Jan 14, 2016.

  1. Kleric
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    Kleric Well-Known Member

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    I just want to know what it would actually take to do that of which has earned the title "virtually impossible". I'm sorry for being persistent, I've never been one to be satisfied with answers with no full explanation. I'd like to take this as an opportunity to learn. If not, I have the slight hope that I may ask the right questions since nobody here yet seems too eager to explain, as if they don't exactly know why themselves. o.o
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2016
  2. SnowyKitten
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    SnowyKitten Well-Known Member

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    Probably because the client is a compiled executable that we don't have the source code for.

    It's honestly ridiculous when people are unsatisfied with the answers of the devs on code related issues. Our devs are good, intelligent programmers and it seems insulting to say something is easy or doable when they say it's not feasible.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2016
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  3. Kleric
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    Kleric Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for a general answer. That's all I was asking for. I wasn't trying to insult anybodies integrity, nor did I imply anywhere that it would be easily solved. I do apologize that I wasn't more solemn in asking, that I could have worded better.
    But dayumm! Ask a developer to reiterate an answer with details, and everybody loses their minds! ._.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2016
  4. Karven
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    Karven Developer

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    To sum up why changing calculations is as difficult as everyone makes it out to be, imagine the client as a book written in a defunct language. Sure, some features can be changed and removed (such as beginner's Auto AP in Open Beta), but that mainly consists of finding a flag in the client and removing it. Damage calculations are much more involved than that - there isn't a single place in a client that does all the damage calculations, but rather, it's done throughout various bits of the client, making it very difficult to understand how changing one value of one area of the code affects everything else. On top of that, MapleStory's damage calculations are still somewhat a mystery - as with any change, we'd want to make sure that everything that's affected by a change isn't done as a side effect of the change itself. When we have a custom client in the works (written by me, so it would be very easily modified), we'll take a more in-depth look at damage calculations and make adjustments then.
     
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  5. Kleric
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    Kleric Well-Known Member

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    Awesome! Thank you. :)
     
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  6. Cavemanohyea
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    Cavemanohyea Donator

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    SO what you are saying is you will not touch blunt weps? is so tyvm :D
     
  7. SwetePete
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    @Karven

    Thanks for the detailed explanation! It was really interesting.
     
  8. Pyrogore
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    @Karven That's interesting. I always suspected the damage calculations formulas we have are close approximations of what is really coded.

    It's looking like bumping the axe/BW speed up one would be the quick fix to the problem of balancing weapons. I'm not sure how facile I'm making that sound (I'm not a programmer) but hopefully that would be a developer-friendly solution for you guys? It would certainly breathe new life into heroes and paladins, and resolve that unfortunate stigma axe/BW players have with DPS-crazed players, without breaking the characters.

    Edit: @Karven I noticed that via bbb hidden street that the VIP 1-handed axe is level 107, unlike the other VIP weapons (lvl 125-127). At first I thought it was a typo, until I saw that the stats for the weapon reflect its level (102 atk instead of 117 or something like that). Maybe a suggestion for gachapon due to its unique level? It is a fast axe, so it would fix the speed problem immediately.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2016
  9. Pyrogore
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    Now I'm curious if anyone suggested bumping the speed of axe/bw booster up to +2 rather than +1. I wonder if that would be easier to work with rather than looking at damage calculations/multipliers? Any thoughts?
     
  10. Plenty
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    Plenty Well-Known Member

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    It already does boost 2 levels.
     
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  11. Pyrogore
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    Silly me, well I meant an additional +1 on its current setting.
     
  12. jmmainvi
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    jmmainvi Donator

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    I suggested & did the math on speed changes over a year ago. If you read through this topic, I've linked the post (but here it is again). However I suggested changes on the base speed of the weapons rather than an improved booster. It has the same effect if you're solo training, and you don't run into a decreased benefit if you're partying with someone who has SI. Axes generally come out between 2% and 10% worse at high levels if you buff attack speeds. IMO it's by far the most intuitive and, well, balanced approach to balancing axes... and as we have since learned the only practical one (changing base atk results in ridiculous numbers, and changing multipliers isn't plausible.)
     
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  13. Pyrogore
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    I agree jmmainvi, and even if something as small as altering axe booster speed winds up being more complicated than expected, there does exist a fast attack lvl 107 axe that could serve as an endgame weapon closer in comparison to ST than the current allotment of axes. Obviously fixing axes would benefit axe heroes including myself, but I really believe that having a comparable axe alternative for heroes to encourage build diversity in general would be an appealing value proposition.
     
  14. Pyrogore
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    It's been awhile but to build on my last post, these were some axes I came across that could narrow the gap (ST will still be better, but it would make endgame axe viable).

    Two non-VIP, non-visitor, fast(5) axe candidates:

    https://www.hidden-street.net/sea/equipment/weapon/one-handed-axe/onyx-one-hand-axe
    This was the level 107 from my previous post.

    https://www.hidden-street.net/sea/equipment/weapon/one-handed-axe/briser-head
    A level 120 counterpart to the Crushed Skull.

    Anyone have any input?
     
  15. Pyrogore
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    Just curious as to whether or not the staff has plans to fix axe speed anytime soon, or will this server just stick with swords?
     
  16. Gags
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    Gags Donator

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    Look at Karven's post down below, I quoted it.
    Kinda off topic but I do really find this fascinating. I didn't know it was possible! In what ways can it benefit you, excluding the one which you already mentioned? For example I know that the text bars in the login require to mess with the client if you want to replace them somewhere else (E.G would be the middle) would a custom client let you do that? if so, that's extremely cool.
     
  17. Matt
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    Matt Administrator

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    I custom client would be built from scratch emulating the features of a MapleStory client, but coded in a modern programming language for optimal performance, alongside a modern graphics API like Vulkan/MoltenVK which would include the ability for the client to be run natively across different operating systems. We would be able to change and customise any aspect of the game without having to be bound by the limitations of a MapleStory client. And of course we would not have issues like needing to change graphics at zakum etc.
     
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  18. Envo
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    Out of curiosity, what language is the custom client being written in?
     
  19. Matt
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    Probably Rust, but work hasn't yet been started on the client, so it could change.
     
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  20. Gags
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    I know you said we would be able to change and customize any aspect of the game, which is already amazing as it is, but I've got a few specific questions that I'm not sure this answers to them:
    * Does it mean we'll no longer have to use vmware in order to go on HT runs?
    * Will we be able increase the amount of members we're allowed to have in a guild, or maybe even leaders, without having the game disconnecting?
    * I remember there was once a complaint about the amount of letters you're allowed to type in the chat box for each message, will we be able to increase it?
    * I know we currently have no plans for this, but metaphorically speaking - will it lets us have the possibility to play at higher resolution other than the stretched 800x600?

    (btw these are not suggestions, just questions regarding issues that have been reported in the past)
     

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