Manon Hoarding/Camping/Excessive Killing

I want to preface this thread by saying this is not meant to be a drama thread. Keep your drama out of here. This is not meant to be a witch hunting thread. ZERO names will be mentioned, I will be asking any posts naming player igns or recommending that we shame/harass/defame any player to be removed. Please put away your pitchforks, this is supposed to be a (somewhat) intelligent discussion.

As some people may know, recently it has come to light that some players (who again won't be mentioned) have collected an absurd amount of dragon elixirs. If you don't know what a dragon elixir is, It's basically an entry pass in to horntail, and it is consumed on entry, rather than on dropping for summon like an eye of fire. Everyone in your party needs to have and use a dragon elixir to enter, again, unlike eye of fire.

How do you get dragon elixirs?
Dragon elixirs are obtained through a quest that I won't get into, but basically the hardest part of the quest in finding a Manon's Cry, because there are only 12 channels, and many players who like to do horntail runs. Manon can drop between 0-3 (I believe) cries, and since you are only able to carry one, many players give out any extras to their friends/guildies.

What is the problem?
Like I mentioned, it has been brought to light that some players have well over one hundred dragon elixirs that is more than enough dragon elixirs for horntailing twice everyday immediately off cooldown for over 50 days. In other words, with the introduction of the daily horntail limit, there is no practical reason to own so many. Owning 100 elixirs means killing a minimum of 20 manons. That means that 19 players searching for one single manon for a genesis quest, or just to do a horntail with their friends are stuck ccing for the lengthy 4-6 hour respawn time. This is not only a discourteous thing to do it is ruining other players' game experience. You could make the argument that killing manons when you clearly do not need any cries is similar to walking into a skele map and kill stealing. You are denying players the ability to complete quests and do bosses with zero gain for yourself. Can you imagine if you an your friends wanted to go fight horntail, but you and eighteen other players were all denied this opportunity due to one player hoarding elixirs so they don't have to ever worry about running out?

What can be done?
This is where it gets tricky, as there's things that could be done such as not allowing anyone with 20 or dragon elixirs to enter the manon map, extending the cooldown on the dragon elixir quest, but a lot of these ideas either don't really solve the problem or hurt regular players who might have good intentions such as killing a manon for their friends, or maybe another character of theirs. Hard capping dragon elixirs at something like 50 wouldn't really solve much either due to the fact that players could still just kill manon for the nx or achilles 30 drop. Basically, the only practical idea for a "fix" that wouldn't backfire on regular players would be to only allow a player to enter the manon map when they have the dragon elixir quest in progress, and do not have a manon cry in their inventory. However there's ANOTHER problem with this idea because players could simply start the dragon elixir quest, not loot any cries that drop, and kill every manon. So that's the purpose of this thread. To come up with a way to fix or at least contain what is very clearly an issue.

I guess I will close this post off with this: Do you believe that the current state of manon is an issue, and what can be done to alleviate some of the players behaviors who clearly do not care about other players' experience?

 

The new source will likely change it back so you will transform upon completing the quest and you will not be able to hoard them.

 

AKA in 2017 they'll deal with it

 

I am thrilled to hear that there are already plans for this to be fixed, but with no release date set for new source yet I do still feel it is necessary for a change to be made until then.

 

So you'll have to get a manon's cry everytime you want to fight horntail?

 

Was that really necessary? Is this thread really labeled "Impreciate's personal frustrations thread"?
No it isn't, so please keep your comments to yourself if they aren't constructive nor positive in any way.

 

It's more likely that I would create a source than it being released that late

That was how it used to work, with Manon also having a reduced cooldown in the new source and I believe it will/should drop more cries and at a 100% ratio so it evens out.

 

I say that the drop be changed from Manon's Cry into something of equal difficulty to obtain while also being an item/meso sink (maybe). Perhaps Dark Tachions from Pap or some other boss that drops an uncommon item so you'll be working upwards to fighting Horntail. Simple sense of progression and gives people even more opportunities to work together.

You could even throw in a PQ exclusive item in the mix with all the new revamp PQs. Gives people incentive to PQ evenat high levels.

 

I understand what you are saying and i agree with it.

I have been doing horntail for a really long time, and i can only think of 1 player off the top of my head that have hoarded 100+ elixirs. People usually dont get that many because it's clearly a bad mannered thing to do as you also explain in your thread.

I think that people who do hoard them just for fun really should re-think what they are doing as it is clearly ruining the game for some other players ( like bishops that needs genesis ).

With this being said i think you are makeing this a bigger problem than it really is. As i mentioned before i only know of 1 player that hoards ht pots like this and doesnt use them, i dont see it as a common problem as your thread makes it sound like it is.

I dont think anything should be changed since the system is fine if people just stop killing manon for fun.

 

i don't think the game should be fixed for this. it sucks that some people act inconsiderately and hoard these for fun or kill manon for nx, but we can do a few things as players:

• ask one of the elixir hoarders for help
• discourage people from hoarding cries (not by harassing them) - this is already happening
  
• camp a map for a few hours - not everyone can do this, but if a cry is important enough for you then i think you'll be able to do it

idk maybe there's more. bosses and limited drops are part of the game, and i think removing this competitive aspect would not be good for the server

 

One manon cry can be turned into an npc along with several other items for 5 elixirs. Keep in mind though, that to get the cry you are competing with every single player on this server who either needs genesis or wants to enter horntail.

As much as I appreciate you trying to keep this thread constructive, I think he does raise a point that, yes, it's great we have plans for a fix, and Andreas really did make it sound like the new source would definitively end this issue, but I do think we need a temporary fix in the mean time.

I really, really like this idea. I think the only argument against it is that it isn't "nostalgic" or deviates too far from gms.

 

Personally, I didn't see anything wrong with impreciate's comment. Is expression of frustration not a a form of feedback? If players are frustrated with parts of a game then it means there could be room for improvement. You don't have to do what players ask for, but you can get an idea for what players like and don't like about the game. I really don't like it, for example, when people say "well if you don't like it, just go somewhere else" because it shows a lack of respect and indifference to your users or fellow players. I feel that people giving any form of feedback shows that they at least care about the game in some way. Rather than just not giving a shit and staying silent or leaving. I'm not trying to pick sides or start an argument. All I'm saying is that negative feedback is just as important as positive feedback. Even if it's not presented in the most elegant way, you can infer what they're trying to say. And if they upset you, you can review the point they tried to make at later time, after the emotions have subsided.

 

You two seem to misunderstand me. I am not suggesting that manon's cry be entirely removed from the process of gaining elixirs. I am however saying that there be some preventative measure for gathering an outrageous amount of elixirs, or just killing manons for no real gain. This intention of this thread was more to come up with a possible solution rather than complain.

 

no, i do understand you. i don't think the game should be altered in any way

 

Do you have that opinion because you feel there is currently no (or very little) problem with the current system, or because you feel a change could only have a negative effect on the game?

 

edit - basically, since we can do something about it as players, i don't think it should be altered

 

To me, this type of argument could be applied to "Well a Level 200 character who keeps killing Skeles on their own is ruining the game for everyone else because there's only so many skele maps." I don't know. Is there a need for someone to have an excessive amount of elixirs? Not that I can think of. Is there anything wrong with them having an excessive amount of elixirs? Not at all.

I think those who say this is "ruining" the game are frankly, being overdramatic about the situation. A duper or hacker is someone who "ruins" the game. Additionally, how is one person precluding everyone else from having a chance at getting a cry? It's the same as any other map. Once you're on the map, you own it. So all you need to do is find an empty map, take ownership of it, and get your cries. Clearly that's what the hoarders of elixirs are doing, right?

In short, I just don't believe the argument being made can be justifiable enough to cause anything to change.

 

There is a huge difference with your argument about the level 200. If a level 200 is killing skeles you have about 6 other maps you can go to and grind. If somebody is killing manons for fun you dont have 6 other maps, you only have that 1 map and thats the problem.

 

You don't have 6 other maps, but you do have X other channels.

 

He's saying there are alternatives. There are no alternatives other than getting a Manon's Cry.