v86 Skill Tables

I realy dont see how new NX item for non donnors (is that what "free nx equips" means) May ruin the game nostalgia.

>.>

I Realy wanna donate and get some new nx shit but BRL to GBP is kinda expensive.

 

I and others have suggested this multiple times...and its an incredibly good idea in my opinion. Here are the patch notes if anyone is interested.

Why is it a good idea? It fixes a LOT of issues with many underplayed classes.

Marksman: The buff of Snipe to 199k is a great starter. The way Nexon intended it to be was for Marksman to have a bit of an advantage mobbing and a bit of a disadvantage single target, and vice versa for Bowmasters. The problem is, Piercing Arrow is useless. It takes ages to charge, if you get bumped while letting it off, it doesn't work, and its horizontal only, limiting its training capabilities. Hurricane is actually a better mobbing attack than Piercing Arrow. So there's goes our one small advantage.
The gap between single target damage is MASSIVE, much higher than it should be, due to the inability to acquire Snipe 30, which is the only thing that closes the gap between Marksman and Bowmaster single target damage. Don't give me that Horntail bologna either, its not happening for a VERY long time, if at all, due to bugs and not enough active high levels do kill it (and by the time a new batch of active high levels comes up, the previous have quit.), essentially capping Snipe at lvl 20 (which still has a monstrous cooldown of 110 sec.) I was a quite funded Marksman, and still got out-damaged by a huge margin by lower level, mediocre Bowmasters. Being a Marksman just feels like being a Sniper with Sharp Eyes.

Shadowers: They really get the short end of the stick. Not only do they have to deal with the highest prices of equips, they have to keep spending money just to do damage. Meso Explosion should be a means of training in 3rd job, not your sole source of damage from 70-200. Besides Mages, I would say Shadowers have the lowest DPM of any class if they're not using Meso Explosion. The reduced delay of Boomerang Step would be a gigantic help, as well as boost to some of their other mediocre mobbing skills. Also, the inability to use macros at any boss that can Seal is also a big pain.

Paladin: If any class got the shaft, its Paladins. They have some of the worst DPM in the game, since 0 bosses have elemental weaknesses, and no party buff to make up for it. There are literally 0 advantages to being a Paladin over a Hero or Dark Knight. v86 changes Threaten to a percentage based skill rather than a flat rate, making them actually valuable, not to mention the buff to their elemental charges and all their attacks. Such a shame such an interesting class is almost non-existent.

I/L and F/P Archmage: Sitting in the shadow of their big brother, Bishops, they also get a big middle finger in the current format. While their ultimates do a bit more damage than Bishops', training speeds are still about the same (I'd say still in the Bishop's favor) due to HS. Bishops get Holy Symbol, Door, Dispel, and Holy Shield. "Well Arch-Mages probably get something over them right?" Wrong. The v86 skill tables increase the damage of pretty much every skill in the Arch-Mages aresenal, as well as lowering the mana cost of their ultimate (which costs an obnoxious amount of mana).

This is my comprehensive argument to adding v86 skill tables. It would give a lot of underrepresented classes a much, much needed boost. We have already breached new patches content, so I think this won't do anything to ruin nostalgia. Perfect balance is impossible, but this would make things a LOT more even.

EDIT: There are also a lot of positive changes to Pirates and other classes, but I was only mentioning the 4 most underplayed imo.

 

I want to point out the (limited) elemental weaknesses of ToT; it's not really a solution to the problems being discussed in this thread:

• Qualm enemies (lv 106-116): Fire, Lightning
• Oblivion enemies (lv 121-131): Poison

So yeah, don't get too excited for ToT to improve training for Paladins and F/Ps.

That being said, while Paladins are crap in v62, I chose one knowing that. I play to experience game content rather than to do tons of damage, so playing an underpowered class I enjoy doesn't really bother me. I bet I'm not the only one that feels this way.

 

Arch Mages ultimates do massive amounts more damage than Bishops. In fact, similarly funded Arch Mages can 1hko Newts AND Skeles before Bishops can, drastically improving their training speed. With HS, Arch Mages are much faster at training then Bishops.

F/Ps aren't underpowered but Pallies would benefit, even if a little.

I completely agree with this. Like I said I have an Axe Hero and I'm making an MM. I'm also a Luk mage. I did this fully understanding that I will be doing less damage than other classes, but I really don't care. If you want a damage class, make a damage class. If you want another class because you prefer it's game play then make that class. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Sure there are classes that are significantly behind the curve, specifically Pallies and MM without Snipe 30, but not every class is made equal. Each class has its strengths and weaknesses and we've got to live with that. Some classes are meant for bossing/DPS while others are meant for grinding/hunting, and some are in between.

 

That's the same reasoning as "newer players have neither to wait half a year before horntail were regularly slain nor before ToT were released".

This is not powercreep: these buffs are not buffs per se, but rather balancing tweaks which bring underpowered classes to the same standard as that of others.

The thing is, with other classes, you can have your cake and eat it.

I guess some people are fine with being underpowered as long as they enjoy the mechanics, and some aren't. This is mostly why I've allowed a poll.

Again, just because every class isn't made equal, does not mean that there should not be at least attempt (and it's a damned good one) at equality. All classes have strengths and weaknesses, but some classes have far too many weaknesses and the others far too many strengths.

 

If you are under the delusion that ToT even brings Paladins close to being relevant, I suggest you go try a v83 server and see how many Paladins are running around. I've discussed upgrading skill tables with Mike at length before. I think a patch to v72 is the right move to make, and at the very least the suggestion warrants a serious discussion amongst the staff.

Also, for the love of God don't tell me F/P mages having poison doesn't make them underpowered. Yay, they can kill skeles at a moderate rate earlier than most. Then what? They continue to kill skeles at an incredibly slow rate compared to Bishops. Oh, and don't forget they don't get that nice HS skill either... Or Mystic Door. Or Heal. Or Ress. Or dispel... Yeah, giving F/P and even I/Ls a buff would be SOOOOO unfair to the Bishop class that is getting to use Elemental gear with no damage drawbacks? Please. If you guys will take your 30% damage cut on Ele gear, then maybe we don't need to buff the Arch Mages, but until then, don't try to belittle how underpowered the other mages are.

MMs are MMs and Shads are Shads. Both could use a little help, but not nearly as badly as Pallies and Arch Mages.

Best of luck to this idea, don't really see how updating a few skills to v72 would "kill the nostalgia", considering we're adding ToT from v72 and Ulu City from all the freaking way in v91.

 

I think what really needs to be discussed at this point is the feasibility of and potential problems with implementing changed skill tables into the game. Matt already stated in an earlier thread on the subject that these changes would mess with the cheat tracker. I'm assuming that, at the very least, the cheat tracker would need a complete overhaul and a lot of time would have to be spent calculating what is/isn't considered reasonable damage for a given job class killing mobs with a given skill at a given level. Changed cooldowns and skill delays would also need to be taken into account.

I think we really need input from our dev team before this discussion gets much further, as there wouldn't be much point in discussing the pros and cons of skill changes if implementing these changes would be too problematic.

 

I don't know how the things are on this server, because I haven't been here for too long. But in "real" maple paladins and shadowers were one of the most important classes to have on ht runs. Not for the damage, that is correct. They were mostly used as seduce mules, so the low-hp classes don't get them very often. Yes, paladin has a lot more tanking abilities than heroes and drk's, that's why it was important.

I don't know how the super hp-washing changes this, but that is what it used to be.

 

I would love these changes to be implemented

 

I was only referring to solo training. The Arch-Mage 1hko is equal to a Bishop 2hko with HS. Of course, with HS, the Arch-Mage trains the same speed (but so does the Bishop since the Bishop has to be there to HS amirite?) Of course its impossible to be totally equal, and its not like if this goes into effect Night Lords and Heroes will be replaced by Shadowers and Marksman, but its a nice little boost in the right direction. If you are content with making weaker classes because they're fun, that's awesome, more power to ya, however, a lot of people would like to see their favorite class bumped up to be at least viable.

There are a few problems with this'

1. A lot of people are HP washing, meaning you will see Night Lords with more HP than Paladins, reducing the need for Shads/Pallies as seduce mules.
2. Horntail is an extremely far off dream. Its not happening anytime in the near future, if at all ever.
3. Paladins have the exact same defenses as a Hero/Dark Knight. All three get Achilles, Heroes get Guardian just like Paladins, and Dark Knights have Hyper Body. Any would make a viable seduce mule.

The buffs aren't anything too crazy, its not like we're going to see double the current damage or anything like that. I'm not 100% on how the cheat tracker works, but I'd assume it analyzes the damage of a class' skill, then adds variables like level and range to determine whether or not the person is cheating. The aforementioned buffs are pretty reasonable and shouldn't throw the cheat tracker for too big of a loop. On that note, I'd love to hear from the new dev about the possibilities of this being implemented.

 

If we are doing this we could just update to v88 and disable Aran, Evan, Dual Blade and Cygnus Knights.

EDIT: Nevermind, that would add chaos dungeons which in my opinion isn't nostalgia at all.

 

I'm all for v72 skill table. Btw guys, are you sure that it is v86? The site that Ty has linked says that the new skill table & Rise of the New Journey bosses were in the same version, but those bosses can be found in v83.

 

o.0 Do you have a link to a v72 skill table you could share? I can't seem to find it on Google.

 

Ty linked it ._.
http://maple.asiasoftsea.com/news_events/view/patch_notes_for_version_072/

 

The table he linked was MSea as far as I can tell.

 

Yeah, MSea version 94... but I guess that he claims that it was implanted in v86 (?) in GMS.

 

We tested out the possibility of updating to v83 and there were too many bugs and things that would need to be disabled for various reasons. Not a viable option IMO.

 

Ah I see, he edited the post after I'd read it.

 

Msea v72 on that website is the same update on v72 gMS as well (as you can see in the patch notes KoC gets released, and KoC got released in gMS v72 also.)

Those changes are pre-83 to balance out.

 

People have been working around this idea a lot i think...that is, there were good things that came in Maplestory after v.62. However, we all know sure as hell enough that there were FAR more bad things. So, as long as the devs here can filter all the bull shit and keep the good stuff (dmg balancing, maps, items, etc), I vote yes.

In this way i think it comes down to what we can code and what time we are willing to put into coding. Honestly, I think we have quite a few v.62 issues to work out first regarding the skills of current classes that deserve attention over this.