v86 Skill Tables

I say no. It'll just give the server more bugs and problems. Plus we need to fix some skills first before we get into this skill patch. After all, MapleStory wasn't always about having higher damage or being the flashiest. It was always about the community, like most old MMOs (RO, Mabinogi, DFO, Trickster, Lunia, etc).

 

Why not attempt your own skill balancing rather than relying on what Nexon did? Open up a test server, play around with the numbers so people don't take advantage of temporary OP-ness. The big-time servers did it somewhat successfully. It doesn't have to be full class overhauls. Changing a % multiplier here and there, adding X amount of stats to Y buff, etc.

 

I don't think that we need an update. Sure some classes get the short end of the stick, but that doesn't mean they are bad. if you like DPS and numbers, then make a class that does that. If you want a challenge then make that paly or play a beginner. Honestly, i think that if we were to "balance" everyone, what would happen is that the players with tons of money (who secretly rule the game) would just fund any character they want and make them do amazing dmg, which is what they do already. Then someone who can't exactly do that will come along and demand "balance" so that they don't have to fund as much to do the same damage as the person who (probably) spent a lot of time and effort to be able to do such. I say no to the update, and I would rather have current bugs fixed.

Tl:dr If you want to be good at a game you have to try. By "balancing" the server, all I see is the same mistake GMS made, which will lead us down the very same path we decided to abandon.

 

Because test servers don't always work.

http://royals.ms/forum/showthread.php?t=2402&highlight=energy+blast

 

Yeah, but I said nothing on v72, lol. I talked about version 86. I think that those changes were in v83, 3 versions earlier.

 

They wouldn't be testing new skills, only damage output from skills that already work.

 

Yeah I just misread that. My bad.

 

Decrease boomerang stab delay... that is all ty

 

What? v83 is the famous patch that other private servers use. v86 is the rebalancing patch for v83.

 

I had seen the thread on the Pirate skill bugs, and those definitely deserve a higher priority. However, should it prove a headscratcher, we should always move on to the next problem on the paper and see if it could be solved with any further facility. No point being stuck on a problem to fail the entire test.

Of course, the v.72 update could be every bit as or even more problematic than the current skill bugs...

As I mentioned in 3.

Obviously the community is one of the primary attractions of any game, but its existence is not dependant on imbalanced classes. If anything, encouraging diversity in job classes would only further enhance the community.

Sure the game for you isn't about high damage, but for some people not underperforming in their preferred class is a primary requisite in their enjoyment of the game. (After all, Pink Capes and wa 10+ gloves regularly exchange hands only because some people obviously care to some extent about damage; i.e. 95% of people). Everyone enjoys different things; and honestly in a game neither is more noble nor should be glorified as more noble than the other.

In any event, we could say anything and reason everything (UrbanJuggernaut in his far superior Maple wisdom had made a very good post on how terrible some classes are)... and it wouldn't matter, if the coding were truly that massive an undertaking. I don't really see how, but that's most likely my ignorance talking; that, and my firm belief that this is at least a [Major] issue to look into and nothing that should be trivialised.

(I do agree however, that fixing current skill bugs are a priority as well, and that the individual complexities of each issue should be weighed against their necessity. We'll just have to wait for a staff member to come on to the thread, though I don't really have my hopes up, taking into account how oft-repeated its ostensible difficulty is and how often this issue has already been brushed aside.)

I should imagine that using the numbers the official MapleStory had acquired through their far superior experience and tests could only be less effort and undertaking than what you're suggesting. Nexon's got some (a lot of) things wrong, but trying to balance the classes is not one of the tasks we should try to better.

^That is the entire definition of bad. Bad = worse than average, and the classes UrbanJuggernaut had listed and which the others had expounded upon are definitely a lot worse than average.

I honestly do not understand your qualm that "the players with tonnes of money" would just fund any character they want and do amazing damage. If a person were funded quite obviously he/she would do more damage than unfunded characters in the same class. The issue here is that funded characters in underpowered classes are doing crap damage in both mobbing and bossing, and have a far inferior presence in all major aspects of the game (except for sitting in the fm and chatting, which I could do more comfortably in Skype). This is in contrast with overpowered (normal) classes, which do not require funding and by extension the effort to acquire funding to completely overwhelm the underpowered classes.

The issue you are referring to (gap between unfunded characters and funded characters) is quite frankly, insane. If anything, it closes the gap between funded and unfunded characters, because funded overpowered classes will have less of an advantage on unfunded underpowered classes.

P.S. Please elaborate on how balancing the underpowered classes (which btw, by relation means that other classes are overpowered; i.e. a mistake was made) will lead us down the "very same path we decided to abandon"; because I hold no recollection of participating in such a decision.

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I would encourage everyone to actually read through every post on the thread, as they all offer very well-articulated and interesting arguments/counter-arguments by those far more qualified than I am, which should not bear repeating lest they lose that interest and give way to verbose prolixity.

^

 

You make a very convincing argument, and I can sympathize with those who think that some classes are under powered. But what will happen is that all classes will be made equal, and those under powered classes will be made stronger, yet they will still be under powered. (At least thats what I think, unless the new updates make their skills way stronger.) Then someone will get excited about the "balance" and make that character, only to find out that its still not as strong as the already strong classes.

As a side note, aren't pally's and mages supposed to be weaker than the other classes? If you think about it, paladins were made to be more of a defensive class, rather than an attacking class. Mages also were made as more of the mobbing and supportive types. Versus night lords who were made to be more 1v1 specialized and therefore will do more damage. The point here is, that some classes should be weaker, because since when is a pally (made to be defensive) supposed to be able to do "as much as" a night lord, which was made to do more damage, but has less survivability and so forth with other classes etc. (Do you see my point here?)

Edit: It just kind of sucks that Nexon didn't think of too many things that would make paly's useful, like being able to get agro and tank the hits for the party while others attacked and buffed and such.

As for the mistakes GMS made, well they decided to mostly buff everyone versus nerfing them. I guess I was under the impression that most people left GMS because the game was broken and one class became stronger and all the others complained because some people went and funded their character insanely and were destroying everything in their path. Which led to the other classes who funded their character as well and were not able to output as much. So then Nexon comes out with a patch to solve that problem and makes the others just as powerful. Now someone complains that an "attacking class" doesn't do as much because everyone is doing almost the same damage output (do you see the logic there? Classes that we made to attack and do damage should obviously do more damage) and so the cycle continued and look at GMS now. (Of course I could be wrong about all of this, but to me it makes sense)

So, basically each class was probably originally designed with something in mind, and all we have done is think about DPS this DPM that. There are a very few people who actually make characters these days, because they actually enjoy that class. Didn't Nexon have a theme for Maplestory, something like, oh I don't know, make your own story or something like that. In essence what should have been a more community game (everyone helping each other and doing stuff together) turned out to be a struggle for being number 1.

If you choose paly, and expect to do lots of damage, then you have chosen the wrong class. If you choose bowmaster and expect to survive and tank everything, then you have also chosen the wrong class. If you don't like your class, then choose another and try that until you have found the one class that you enjoy. Please take time to consider what you want to do, and go with it, try to have fun, the community here is wonderful and very nice.

tldr; classes were made with a purpose, and you had to chose what purpose you liked the most and go with it. Aren't we supposed to enjoy the game and not stress over it?

 

Just realized an update would decrease the cooldown on Corsair's battleship to a minute and a half as opposed to six. I don't even play my Corsair anymore, but that makes me support this idea even more. A six minute cooldown on Battleship effectively ruins Corsairs as DPSers. On the front of "playing the class for fun", Battleship is the signature Corsair skill. You'd be hard pressed to find a person who thinks Corsairs without Battleship are anything other than SE-less BMs. Nexon realized pretty quickly that a 6 minute cooldown was excessive. Changing this wouldn't ruin the nostalgia for anyone.

 

What is a "defensive class", because a Hero is as defensive as a Paladin without a sucky threaten (since it's not buffed yet). Yet a Hero deals tons of dps. If Nexon intended Paladins to be a 'really tanky' class compared to other in pre-bb maple, then they shouldn't have given power guard to heroes.

And that point would be more true in gMS, in this private server HP washing is so common and easy that 'survivability' really isn't a problem.

Arch-mages don't even support, all they do is mob. But why choose an arch mage while a Bishop is so much better, (Holy is strong against skeles) and they can support, door, etc. That's why Arch-mages need an extra boost in damage. Not high enough to challenge pre-existing dps classes, but enough to do more damage than bishops to give them a unique advantage.

If you look at all the mages in the top 100, about 10% are arch-mages.
Opposed to the 90% that are Bishops, these balance updates just help the low-useful jobs compared to others.

Same with how there are more Heroes compared to Paladins.

 

At some point we might have to call for a re-vote for people who change their minds.

 

What? This has nothing to do with unfunded players wanting buffs, its about class balance. I don't care how much money someone has, a godly funded Paladin is still just a mediocre Hero.

As far as current bugs, the only major skill related bug is Speed Infusion (and that's never getting fixed, sorry), and some PQ bugs for the most part.

So balancing classes is going to lead us to Enhances and Potential? Lolwut? You can "try" as hard as you want as a Marksman/Shadower/Paladin etc, you're still inferior.

To try to summarize so everyone doesn't have to read 6 pages to see what's been said;

Switch to v86 Skill Tables

Pros:
-Helps Marksman by reduced cooldown of Snipe and reduced charge time of Piercing Arrow, as well as buffs to 2nd and 3rd job skills.
-Helps Shadowers by reducing delay on Boomerang Step and increased mobbing damage in 2nd and 3rd job.
-Helps Paladins by changing Threaten to a percentage based debuff rather than a fixed rate, making it a worthy skill to use, and buffs pretty much all of their attacks and charges.
-Helps Arch-Mages by lowering the mana cost of ultimates and buffing their single-target DPS.
-Helps Corsairs by reducing cooldown of Battleship, improving their single target DPS dramatically so that they are worthwhile attackers.
-Helps Buccaneers by reducing delay of Dragon Strike, and increasing the range of Energy Blast and Demolition, and giving them better Stance.
-Hurts nobody

Cons:
-Somehow reduces nostalgia? (Its 10%-20% increases people, its not like everyone's damage will double or something crazy.)
-Takes time away from development of other things (Only major gamebreaking bugs atm are Speed Infusion, PQ bugs if you can call that gamebreaking, Zak DC issues and getting Horntail up and running.)

 

Can the people opposing this please tell me what part of this bothers them?
Please, because this all makes sense to me.
i'll high light the important ones.

Spoiler

Common Skill for all classes edited
Warrior Awakening skill can be leveled up to level 5.
Maple Warrior master level increased to level 30. - since we are getting tot
Warrior job skills revised
Warrior skill “Power Strike” initial damage has been increased to 165%. Damage after mastering remains the same.
Warrior skill “Slash Blast” initial damage has been increased to 72%. Damage after mastering remains the same.
Spearman skill “Hyper Body” effective period increased to 300 seconds.
Fighter skill “Rage”, upon mastering, increases attack by 12.
Page skill “Threaten” applies to boss mobs. Effective period increased up to 120.
White Knight skills “Blizzard Charge” and “Ice Charge” damage increased to 110% upon mastering.
Paladin skill “Blast” attack range increased
Paladin skill “Sanctuary” cooling time decreased to 20 seconds.
Hero skill “Enrage” cooling time decreased to 6 minutes.
Dark Knight skill “Berserk” HP use limit changed to 50% upon mastering.
Mage job skills revised
Mage (Fire/Poison) and Mage (Ice/Lightning) Skill “Elemental Amplification” attack increased to 140%
4th job magician skill “Big Bang” charge time decreased to 1 second.
Ice/Lightning Arch Mage Skill “Chain Lightning” extra damage increased.
Bowman job skills revised
Hunter, Crossbow Man short distance attack range decreased.
Hunter, Crossbow Man short distance attack damage increased.
Ranger, Sniper skill “Strafe” initial damage increased to 71%. Damage after mastering remains the same.
Bowmaster skill “Concentration” effective period increased to 240 seconds.
Marksman skill “Piercing Arrow” charge time decreased to 1 second.
Marksman skill “Snipe” cooling time decreased to 5 seconds based on mastered skill.
Hunter skill “Arrow Bomb” damage until initial mob attack increased.
Thief job skills revised
Chief Bandit skill “Band of Thieves” attack range increased.
Chief Bandit skill “Assaulter” moving range increased.
Chief Bandit skill “Pickpocket” calculations revised.
Night Lord skill “Ninja Ambush” range increased.
Shadower skill “Boomerang Stab”; delay after using this skill decreased.
Pirate job skills revised
Outlaw skill “Flamethrower” and “Ice Splitter” attack range increased.
Viper skill “Dragon Strike”; delay after using this skill decreased.
Viper skill “Barrage”; delay after using this skill decreased.
Viper skill “Energy Blast”; delay after using this skill decreased.
Captain skill “Rapid Fire” damage increased to 170% based on master level.
Captain skill “Battleship”; when battleship is disabled, waiting time is changed to 90 seconds for all to ride again.
While using Viper skill “Transformation”, can use all skills except for “Oak Barrel,” “Double Fire,” “Demolition” and “Snatch”.
While using Viper skill “Super Transformation,” can use all skills except “Oak Barrel” and “Double Fire”.
Viper skill “Energy Orb”, extra damage added.

 

What bothers me is the number of people who are likely to be complaining that we still haven't fixed this that and the other because we're working on something new.

 

it seems that I shall not win this argument. I don't plan on quitting if they make the change, all im saying is that i'm ok with the way things are now. If everyone really wants to go ahead with it, then what can I do about it, other than just roll with it?