Hey all, Just trying to see if you would like to join in a political conversation online that doesn't end in memes and/or blocking people.. Anyhow.. here's what I think. I am a polysci major at California State University, Long Beach. I don't believe in big government. I don't believe in government handouts or any social economical reforms. I don't feel the burn... I believe that voting a Bernie Sanders type person will make Americans weaker. People will expect more and more and work less and less. That's why socialism never works, it never drives or motivates people. Does that mean that total capitalism is the right answer? Of course not, inequality sucks. But it still gives you a chance. I often find that the most unmotivated people in life are the ones who support these types of people. Call me old fashioned, but I still believe in a limited government and working your way to get on top. Now for my endgame, I do believe the world is fucked. Globalism is killing off nation-states and big corporations are now more powerful than small nation states. I believe in Argentina, the tobacco company Marlboro was able to hold the country's navy captive. All in all, globalism is not a good thing because although it breaks down the borders and make production easier, it also destroys the freedoms granted by nation states. Try reading Ali Behdad's A Forgetful Nation. It basically says that the system plays on the fact that we "believe" that social reforms do good when instead, it actually gives into what they want. The system wants you to believe that you are making social reforms and breaking new barriers when in reality, they're just leading you on from ultimately breaking loose and this so-called progress. Think the revolutions in 1968.. all of those same problems reappeared in 2016. Are we far from the inequalities that was presented 50 years ago? Yes. But now comes a new batch of the same root problems. As far as Bernie goes.. he's been a politician for what.. 30+ years? What have you done that leads me to believe that you will enact real changes. Plus the basis of him being a potential POTUS is ridiculous because he'd never get the nominee. So it's a pointless argument. If you want real change, it isn't looking for a quick and easy answer. Sometimes you gotta grind it out and make something out of yourself. Always proud to drink the sweet kool-aid on my own will then to be spoon fed with someone else's hard earned money What are your thoughts on the election and furthermore, what are your thoughts on the world moving forward?
So, we had Cruz, basically a Christian fundamentalist lunatic. I'll take just about anything over that. Glad he's gone. Represents special interests of big corporations/the religious right, a theocracy to benefit the rich. We've got Trump. I really don't think there is much to be said here. He's a failed businessman pandering to the fears and prejudice of uneducated America. Unqualified in every respect and a disgrace (he made fun of a handicapped person, regularly says fucked up shit about women wtf?). Represents anti-establishment in the worst, most hateful and angry way. "I'm angry so I'm voting for Trump!". Shit on social issues of course. We've got Hillary. She seems to be the least popular. She's good on social issues, and would likely not undo the things that Obama has done (best president we've ever had IMO). But, she represents special interests of the rich and powerful, and the left really dislikes this. I fear Trump will win if the left stays divided on Hillary. Then we've got Sanders. A man who I believe truly wants to do good. Good on social issues and represents anti-establishment in a positive and progressive way. Don't believe "bernie bros just want free shit!" bullshit, there are literally hundreds of economists (Robert Reich comes to mind) and financial experts who endorse his policy. Not to mention he's the only candidate that takes global warming and the environment seriously. It's not communism, it's not even socialism, its democratic socialism. It's a balance, and we need a balance. Too much of anything doesn't work, and right now we've got way too much capitalism thats been monopolized upon by the rich and powerful. Look at Canada, far more socialist than the U.S. and being lazy isn't rampant and there is no government leecher epidemic. Pulling yourself up by the bootstraps or "working your way to the top" may have been a fair standard to put on americans in the wild-west or just white people. But nobody starts in the same place, you can be born a rich white boy, like Trump, or you could be born a lesbian black woman in a Baltimore slum and now you have a fraction of the opportunities. No offense, but it sounds like you've been drinking the right wing kool-aid. So basically it's either; Fascism (trump), keep shit the same (Clinton), or progress (Sanders). Pick one.
I think this was what the OP was trying to AVOID with this thread. You're free to express your opinion, but you are not to attack someone else's
Try reading Ali Behdad's A Forgetful Nation. It basically says that the system plays on the fact that we "believe" that social reforms do good when instead, it actually gives into what they want. The system wants you to believe that you are making social reforms and breaking new barriers when in reality, they're just leading you on from ultimately breaking loose and this so-called progress. Think the revolutions in 1968.. all of those same problems reappeared in 2016. Are we far from the inequalities that was presented 50 years ago? Yes. But now comes a new batch of the same root problems. As far as Bernie goes.. he's been a politician for what.. 30+ years? What have you done that leads me to believe that you will enact real changes. Plus the basis of him being a potential POTUS is ridiculous because he'd never get the nominee. So it's a pointless argument. If you want real change, it isn't looking for a quick and easy answer. Sometimes you gotta grind it out and make something out of yourself. Always proud to drink the sweet kool-aid on my own will then to be spoon fed with someone else's hard earned money
We can go back and forth on the economics all day, but Bernie is clearly the progressive here, at least socially and environmentally. I don't see how you could argue with that given the other choices. I'm studying forestry and climate change at UBC, and I can tell you that it's the most pressing and urgent concern of mankind to date, and any candidate who will take that seriously is one who has my vote. Trump doesn't even believe in it. Yeah, 30+ years in office, thats experience lol. What has Trump done besides bankrupt businesses? What has Hillary done? Who would you choose then, pick your poison. It's hard to have a meaningful conversation when instead of presenting your position, you're just playing devil's advocate. I said drinking the koolaid because your talking points against Sanders don't seem to be based off of his actual policy, but sound like they've been taken straight from Fox news. But anyways, I'll vote for whomever is against Trump, whether thats Hillary or Sanders, we simply can't have that man running this country. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you sound like a libertarian to me, so idk who you would vote for since none of those candidates have a chance either.
I really don't like that argument because it simply isn't true. Race doesn't have anything to do with your financial standing.
I don't believe in big government. I don't believe in government handouts or any social economical reforms. I don't feel the burn... I believe that voting a Bernie Sanders type person will make Americans weaker. People will expect more and more and work less and less. That's why socialism never works, it never drives or motivates people. Does that mean that total capitalism is the right answer? Of course not, inequality sucks. But it still gives you a chance. I often find that the most unmotivated people in life are the ones who support these types of people. Call me old fashioned, but I still believe in a limited government and working your way to get on top. My problem with you're statement here is that you're equating Sanders ideals with total socialism. This shows a lack of understanding of Sanders. America already has tons of socialistic programs... Social Security, the military, basically any public service. You'll have to tell me how exactly he's going to turn our nation of sexy hardworking individuals into dirty lazy bums. Now for my endgame, I do believe the world is fucked. Globalism is killing off nation-states and big corporations are now more powerful than small nation states. I believe in Argentina, the tobacco company Marlboro was able to hold the country's navy captive. All in all, globalism is not a good thing because although it breaks down the borders and make production easier, it also destroys the freedoms granted by nation states. While I'm not familiar with Marlboro vs Argentina, I get the gist of it. An extremely rich private company was able to coerce this almost bankrupt nation into following their whims. This is hardly the first time this has happened...BUT what are you going to do? They are doing these things legally. This has less to do with globalization and more to do with money, as money tends to equate to influence. Bad things happened to countries before globalization... Try reading Ali Behdad's A Forgetful Nation. It basically says that the system plays on the fact that we "believe" that social reforms do good when instead, it actually gives into what they want. The system wants you to believe that you are making social reforms and breaking new barriers when in reality, they're just leading you on from ultimately breaking loose and this so-called progress. Think the revolutions in 1968.. all of those same problems reappeared in 2016. Are we far from the inequalities that was presented 50 years ago? Yes. But now comes a new batch of the same root problems. Are you really saying that the civil rights movement was for nothing... There is no such thing as a perfect solution or permanent fix. We will always have new problems in this world. You just have to work at fixing those new problems. Expecting things to just "work out" through inaction is delusional. As far as Bernie goes.. he's been a politician for what.. 30+ years? What have you done that leads me to believe that you will enact real changes. Plus the basis of him being a potential POTUS is ridiculous because he'd never get the nominee. So it's a pointless argument. Bernie Sanders actually has quite an impressive history. Fought for civil rights when he was 21 years old. Became mayor of Burlington and improved the standard of living there. Balanced the budget, revitalized public services. Voter turnout doubled during his tenure. (Voted as best mayor of United States in 1987) Voted against Iraq war and invasion. Voted against patriot act. Despite being an independent, he was able to get many things done. In fact, he enacted so many amendments he was dubbed "Amendment King" List here: http://www.alternet.org/election-20...shing-through-major-reforms-will-surprise-you So yea he's done tons of good stuff in his 30+ years. Yes Clinton will most likely win the nomination, but that doesn't take away who Sanders is and why people like and respect him. If you want real change, it isn't looking for a quick and easy answer. Sometimes you gotta grind it out and make something out of yourself. Always proud to drink the sweet kool-aid on my own will then to be spoon fed with someone else's hard earned money. Yup, if you want change to happen you have to work for it. Again, his ideals aren't about giving everyone free shit. It's more like if you work hard, you can actually get a cup of that sweet ass kool-aid and not just a few drops.
While I would love love love for this to be true, there have been many studies that correlate directly with ethbicity being linked with some degree of prosperity. Of course, race isn't going to be the end all be all, but given the numbers, it's pretty clear that it isn't equal all across the board.
Race and gender definitely effects potential prosperity (on an average), heavily contributed on what country you reside in. @JadenSmith has spoken plenty of truth in here, stay blessed. Social democracy is a political, social and economic ideology that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a capitalist economy, and a policy regime involving collective bargaining arrangements, a commitment to representative democracy, measures for income redistribution, regulation of the economy in the general interest and welfare state provisions. (defined by heywood). I think America needs Bernie (Democratic-Socialism) / A Social Market Economy. There are various policies and events in recent history that have lead me to this conclusion: issues ranging from private prisons, pharmaceutical companies, big corporations (like the marlboro comparison), lack of free or cheaper public education system (yes, i said free... public education/college should be a right), lack of a social healthcare system, lack of net neutrality (NSA don't give a shit about your private liberties), global warming, the 2009 financial crash (lack of restrictions/overlook), lack of wealth distribution, etc Clinton is bad enough, always changing sides to stay ahead of the game, favouring the big, the mighty and the powerful (IN MY OPINION) the republican side shouldn't even be considered between religion, big corporations, global warming, general lack of common sense and the general brawl they always seem to have going on. @Legend wouldn't classify laziness as a potential disadvantage, need to read up on some keynesian economics/social democratic systems - nordic model/german model. ^^^ sanders has a proven track record, that proves one thing: he cares. Just look at his voting history. **currently a international (politics) studies + mandarin double major
I said correlation, not causation. Those are two very different things. Most, if not all studies (or censuses done on household income by ethnicity) will have African Americans at the bottom. No where did I say that they are at the bottom because of their race. I'm just saying that if it's been happening for over 40 years, there's probably some sort of relationship there.
I think you know who I'd support but rather than making an argument supporting my position, I like to open this thread up to new ideas. We can bicker on and on about how one is better than the other.. but that usually never gets anywhere. You will always stick to your guns and I will to mine. (Well for me literally).. DONT TAKE MY GUNS. All in all, you don't have to pick every statement I made apart. I want to continue to see what you project and hope to see in the world Also.. any business person knows that you're gonna have many failures when starting something up. Down to every idea and action, there are numerous failures. To say Trump is a failed businessman is laughable. It's a testament that he is leading his party into the general election. If you go to college and don't become liberal, you have no heart. If you get a job after college and don't become conservative, you have no brain.
He COULD be, or he could be the best businessman in the world AND the best president. Who knows? The future and unknown can be quite interesting to think about sometimes.
besides the fact that he isn't really that "amazing" of a businessman. he has made much less compared to other "famous" businessmen in his era - for example: LeFraks, Buffet.. He didn't build himself from nothing, he inherited a HUGE real-estate empire from his father which has valued over time, and the wealth that he has acquired his own since then are profits from banks and private concerns. The reason he has stayed afloat when FOUR of his business's have flopped is because investors and banks absorb the losses, instead of relying on the taxpayer and the general population for income. His wealth derives from his ability to secure loans from officials, his popularity stems from his crave for attention, which he seems to strive off. .... feel bad for Kasich, who has been under valued from the beginning. trump may not be a failed businessman, but he isn't anything special either...
